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Your thoughts on Braindumps

 
 
Samantha
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-05-2004
Hi All,

I am currently on the windows 2000 MCSE track,and I have
passed 217,219,215,& 210 using smartcertify, sybex, CBT
nuggets and Transcenders to prepare. While preparing for
the 220 exam (which I failed proviously) I was scouring
the net for resources to help me, when I can across a
website to my surprise that had the same exact questions
as the ones i saw on my exam. My question is: Is using
these braindumps cheating? One guy said he passed the 2
exams in 3 days.
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Network Guru
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-05-2004

"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:188bd01c44b10$2b4245e0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi All,
>
> I am currently on the windows 2000 MCSE track,and I have
> passed 217,219,215,& 210 using smartcertify, sybex, CBT
> nuggets and Transcenders to prepare. While preparing for
> the 220 exam (which I failed proviously) I was scouring
> the net for resources to help me, when I can across a
> website to my surprise that had the same exact questions
> as the ones i saw on my exam. My question is: Is using
> these braindumps cheating? One guy said he passed the 2
> exams in 3 days.


The rules of conduct for this newsgroup prohibit me from using Chalk's
coined phrase in its purest form. If it was acceptable I'd use it.

Do yourself a favor and study and learn the material. Buy a cheap network
configuration and take your time and do things the right way.


 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Techie
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-05-2004
go away troll

--
Techie
MCNGP #21
"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:188bd01c44b10$2b4245e0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi All,
>
> I am currently on the windows 2000 MCSE track,and I have
> passed 217,219,215,& 210 using smartcertify, sybex, CBT
> nuggets and Transcenders to prepare. While preparing for
> the 220 exam (which I failed proviously) I was scouring
> the net for resources to help me, when I can across a
> website to my surprise that had the same exact questions
> as the ones i saw on my exam. My question is: Is using
> these braindumps cheating? One guy said he passed the 2
> exams in 3 days.



 
Reply With Quote
 
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-05-2004
Yes, using braindumps is cheating.


"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:188bd01c44b10$2b4245e0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi All,
>
> I am currently on the windows 2000 MCSE track,and I have
> passed 217,219,215,& 210 using smartcertify, sybex, CBT
> nuggets and Transcenders to prepare. While preparing for
> the 220 exam (which I failed proviously) I was scouring
> the net for resources to help me, when I can across a
> website to my surprise that had the same exact questions
> as the ones i saw on my exam. My question is: Is using
> these braindumps cheating? One guy said he passed the 2
> exams in 3 days.



 
Reply With Quote
 
Beoweolf
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-05-2004
If you are asking? Then you already know the answer! If you are seeking
permission, you will not find it here. Cheating is cheating...Oh, yea, just
in case you missed the point...it is cheating!

I would not want to work with someone that resorted to memorizing or
copying the answers to pass the certification tests.

We all fully realize that no one is 100% in all aspects of IT...it changes
too fast, what you learned today is revised in 6 months to a year and
obsolete in 2 to 3 years. A good IT technologist must continue to learn
throughout his career, you need to learn how to learn, research, retain and
combine diverse knowledge and concepts to stay ahead of the curve. How is a
Braindumpers "knowledge" going to be an asset to me or any other co-worker,
he is a parasite, living off the knowledge of others. Supposedly, IT is one
of the last occupations based on Merit, no unions, no guilds, no organized
professional Organizations....Ronin of Technology, owned by no master,
living by their skill. And you want a short cut?
"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:188bd01c44b10$2b4245e0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi All,
>
> I am currently on the windows 2000 MCSE track,and I have
> passed 217,219,215,& 210 using smartcertify, sybex, CBT
> nuggets and Transcenders to prepare. While preparing for
> the 220 exam (which I failed proviously) I was scouring
> the net for resources to help me, when I can across a
> website to my surprise that had the same exact questions
> as the ones i saw on my exam. My question is: Is using
> these braindumps cheating? One guy said he passed the 2
> exams in 3 days.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date: 6/4/2004


 
Reply With Quote
 
Samantha
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-05-2004
Excuse me Beowolf for asking a question I think needed to
be asked. Obviously if I knew the answer I would not have
asked. I was not seeking permission I was seeking an
answer. I never said I used braindumps to pass my exams, I
said I recently came across a site that had the same exact
case studies, and questions as an exam I took which I was
SURPRISE to see. Those people on that site did not see it
as cheating, I was simply asking the opinion of others
here their thoughts on it. But so far I am being insulted
for surfing, being insulted for using a search engine that
took me to that website, being insulted for asking a
question I did not know the answer to, and did not know
was TABOO. You should simply just put up a notice that
says "You should asked questions as long as it is not
about braindumping". Did you not read that I passed my
exams using other study materials? So don't get down on
me for asking a question.


>-----Original Message-----
>If you are asking? Then you already know the answer! If

you are seeking
>permission, you will not find it here. Cheating is

cheating...Oh, yea, just
>in case you missed the point...it is cheating!
>
>I would not want to work with someone that resorted to

memorizing or
>copying the answers to pass the certification tests.
>
>We all fully realize that no one is 100% in all aspects

of IT...it changes
>too fast, what you learned today is revised in 6 months

to a year and
>obsolete in 2 to 3 years. A good IT technologist must

continue to learn
>throughout his career, you need to learn how to learn,

research, retain and
>combine diverse knowledge and concepts to stay ahead of

the curve. How is a
>Braindumpers "knowledge" going to be an asset to me or

any other co-worker,
>he is a parasite, living off the knowledge of others.

Supposedly, IT is one
>of the last occupations based on Merit, no unions, no

guilds, no organized
>professional Organizations....Ronin of Technology, owned

by no master,
>living by their skill. And you want a short cut?
>"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in

message
>news:188bd01c44b10$2b4245e0$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I am currently on the windows 2000 MCSE track,and I have
>> passed 217,219,215,& 210 using smartcertify, sybex, CBT
>> nuggets and Transcenders to prepare. While preparing

for
>> the 220 exam (which I failed proviously) I was scouring
>> the net for resources to help me, when I can across a
>> website to my surprise that had the same exact questions
>> as the ones i saw on my exam. My question is: Is using
>> these braindumps cheating? One guy said he passed the 2
>> exams in 3 days.

>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date:

6/4/2004
>
>
>.
>

 
Reply With Quote
 
Zenner
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-05-2004
Insulted as you may be, there is still a search function in news groups and
most newsreaders and browsers. IF you hadn't noticed, this is a public
forum, your inocent request, is seen by thousands, maybe millions of
readers. Not all of them is having a good day. What may be answered with
humor on one day, may invoke in an entirely differ response after hearing
the same question, maybe in different words, for the 100th time.

There is a long tradition of making use of the search function, before
posting a question that may have been asked and answered previously.
Acquaint yourself with it, it saves a lot bruised feelings and allows you a
chance to get a feeling for the general character of a newsgroup,
anonymously...if you chose to stay and participate then you will at least
have a rough idea of basic unwritten ground rules, courtesies most
newsgroups have developed over the years.

I doubt if anyone seeking a certification, especially after completing more
that one or two MCP exams, has never heard about Braindumps, or read an
article on "Paper MCSE", or encountered graduates of some of the more
notorious "become an MCSE in 7 days" plans that are offered continuously by
spam spewing sites from every corner of the globe.

OK, so you may have missed or were oblivious to these speed traps on the
road to certification. Now you know. As for being righteously insulted, that
may be true too. Alternately, from another perspective...current MCSEs, may
feel insulted when confronted with suspicions of being members, advocates
or practitioners of these same shortcuts. By staying silent, it could be
construed that we are tacitly agreeing that it is OK.

Your feeling, as important as they are to you, are not the be all, end all
in the game of life. Welcome to the newsgroup! Hope it is helpful in
providing information that can be of use to you as you legitimately pursue
your advanced certifications.

And I do appreciate that you took the time to respond, specifically to my
post as opposed to the others that made the same point.


"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:184f901c44b1e$52757cf0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Excuse me Beowolf for asking a question I think needed to
> be asked. Obviously if I knew the answer I would not have
> asked. I was not seeking permission I was seeking an
> answer. I never said I used braindumps to pass my exams, I
> said I recently came across a site that had the same exact
> case studies, and questions as an exam I took which I was
> SURPRISE to see. Those people on that site did not see it
> as cheating, I was simply asking the opinion of others
> here their thoughts on it. But so far I am being insulted
> for surfing, being insulted for using a search engine that
> took me to that website, being insulted for asking a
> question I did not know the answer to, and did not know
> was TABOO. You should simply just put up a notice that
> says "You should asked questions as long as it is not
> about braindumping". Did you not read that I passed my
> exams using other study materials? So don't get down on
> me for asking a question.
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >If you are asking? Then you already know the answer! If

> you are seeking
> >permission, you will not find it here. Cheating is

> cheating...Oh, yea, just
> >in case you missed the point...it is cheating!
> >
> >I would not want to work with someone that resorted to

> memorizing or
> >copying the answers to pass the certification tests.
> >
> >We all fully realize that no one is 100% in all aspects

> of IT...it changes
> >too fast, what you learned today is revised in 6 months

> to a year and
> >obsolete in 2 to 3 years. A good IT technologist must

> continue to learn
> >throughout his career, you need to learn how to learn,

> research, retain and
> >combine diverse knowledge and concepts to stay ahead of

> the curve. How is a
> >Braindumpers "knowledge" going to be an asset to me or

> any other co-worker,
> >he is a parasite, living off the knowledge of others.

> Supposedly, IT is one
> >of the last occupations based on Merit, no unions, no

> guilds, no organized
> >professional Organizations....Ronin of Technology, owned

> by no master,
> >living by their skill. And you want a short cut?
> >"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in

> message
> >news:188bd01c44b10$2b4245e0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I am currently on the windows 2000 MCSE track,and I have
> >> passed 217,219,215,& 210 using smartcertify, sybex, CBT
> >> nuggets and Transcenders to prepare. While preparing

> for
> >> the 220 exam (which I failed proviously) I was scouring
> >> the net for resources to help me, when I can across a
> >> website to my surprise that had the same exact questions
> >> as the ones i saw on my exam. My question is: Is using
> >> these braindumps cheating? One guy said he passed the 2
> >> exams in 3 days.

> >
> >
> >---
> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date:

> 6/4/2004
> >
> >
> >.
> >



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date: 6/4/2004


 
Reply With Quote
 
Samantha
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-05-2004
Zenner,

Thank you for your response. I am not an unreasonable
person, and I can see where I may have been remise by not
using the search function, and I am sorry for that. But
believe it or not I had not known about braindumps until a
day ago. I usually purchase transcenders to practice
questions before I take an exam. It is only because I
failed the 70-220 exam that I decided to seach the net for
free additional resources to help me practice on, that I
came across braindumps. It was a whole new world to me,
and I was not sure what to make of it. It did seem a bit
shady to me, but I wanted to get others opinions. I have
found newsgroups to be a wonderful source of information,
and help in the past, and I thought I would just post the
question here. I was shocked to be called a "troll", and
more deserving if I was "ugly" too. Regardless of how a
person feels this was unprofessional, and misdirected. If
persons like Techie and Network Guru feel that strongly
about it they should go on the braindumps websites and
insult the users not me. However I appreciate your
position, and thank you for explaining things to me.
>-----Original Message-----
>Insulted as you may be, there is still a search function

in news groups and
>most newsreaders and browsers. IF you hadn't noticed,

this is a public
>forum, your inocent request, is seen by thousands, maybe

millions of
>readers. Not all of them is having a good day. What may

be answered with
>humor on one day, may invoke in an entirely differ

response after hearing
>the same question, maybe in different words, for the

100th time.
>
>There is a long tradition of making use of the search

function, before
>posting a question that may have been asked and answered

previously.
>Acquaint yourself with it, it saves a lot bruised

feelings and allows you a
>chance to get a feeling for the general character of a

newsgroup,
>anonymously...if you chose to stay and participate then

you will at least
>have a rough idea of basic unwritten ground rules,

courtesies most
>newsgroups have developed over the years.
>
>I doubt if anyone seeking a certification, especially

after completing more
>that one or two MCP exams, has never heard about

Braindumps, or read an
>article on "Paper MCSE", or encountered graduates of some

of the more
>notorious "become an MCSE in 7 days" plans that are

offered continuously by
>spam spewing sites from every corner of the globe.
>
>OK, so you may have missed or were oblivious to these

speed traps on the
>road to certification. Now you know. As for being

righteously insulted, that
>may be true too. Alternately, from another

perspective...current MCSEs, may
>feel insulted when confronted with suspicions of being

members, advocates
>or practitioners of these same shortcuts. By staying

silent, it could be
>construed that we are tacitly agreeing that it is OK.
>
>Your feeling, as important as they are to you, are not

the be all, end all
>in the game of life. Welcome to the newsgroup! Hope it is

helpful in
>providing information that can be of use to you as you

legitimately pursue
>your advanced certifications.
>
>And I do appreciate that you took the time to respond,

specifically to my
>post as opposed to the others that made the same point.
>
>
>"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in

message
>news:184f901c44b1e$52757cf0$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Excuse me Beowolf for asking a question I think needed

to
>> be asked. Obviously if I knew the answer I would not

have
>> asked. I was not seeking permission I was seeking an
>> answer. I never said I used braindumps to pass my

exams, I
>> said I recently came across a site that had the same

exact
>> case studies, and questions as an exam I took which I

was
>> SURPRISE to see. Those people on that site did not see

it
>> as cheating, I was simply asking the opinion of others
>> here their thoughts on it. But so far I am being

insulted
>> for surfing, being insulted for using a search engine

that
>> took me to that website, being insulted for asking a
>> question I did not know the answer to, and did not know
>> was TABOO. You should simply just put up a notice that
>> says "You should asked questions as long as it is not
>> about braindumping". Did you not read that I passed my
>> exams using other study materials? So don't get down on
>> me for asking a question.
>>
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >If you are asking? Then you already know the answer! If

>> you are seeking
>> >permission, you will not find it here. Cheating is

>> cheating...Oh, yea, just
>> >in case you missed the point...it is cheating!
>> >
>> >I would not want to work with someone that resorted to

>> memorizing or
>> >copying the answers to pass the certification tests.
>> >
>> >We all fully realize that no one is 100% in all aspects

>> of IT...it changes
>> >too fast, what you learned today is revised in 6 months

>> to a year and
>> >obsolete in 2 to 3 years. A good IT technologist must

>> continue to learn
>> >throughout his career, you need to learn how to learn,

>> research, retain and
>> >combine diverse knowledge and concepts to stay ahead of

>> the curve. How is a
>> >Braindumpers "knowledge" going to be an asset to me or

>> any other co-worker,
>> >he is a parasite, living off the knowledge of others.

>> Supposedly, IT is one
>> >of the last occupations based on Merit, no unions, no

>> guilds, no organized
>> >professional Organizations....Ronin of Technology,

owned
>> by no master,
>> >living by their skill. And you want a short cut?
>> >"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

in
>> message
>> >news:188bd01c44b10$2b4245e0$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> Hi All,
>> >>
>> >> I am currently on the windows 2000 MCSE track,and I

have
>> >> passed 217,219,215,& 210 using smartcertify, sybex,

CBT
>> >> nuggets and Transcenders to prepare. While preparing

>> for
>> >> the 220 exam (which I failed proviously) I was

scouring
>> >> the net for resources to help me, when I can across a
>> >> website to my surprise that had the same exact

questions
>> >> as the ones i saw on my exam. My question is: Is

using
>> >> these braindumps cheating? One guy said he passed

the 2
>> >> exams in 3 days.
>> >
>> >
>> >---
>> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system

(http://www.grisoft.com).
>> >Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date:

>> 6/4/2004
>> >
>> >
>> >.
>> >

>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date:

6/4/2004
>
>
>.
>

 
Reply With Quote
 
Techie
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-05-2004
Why would I need to go to braindump websites to go after braindumpers when
they insist on posting here, eh troll?

--
Techie
MCNGP #21
"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1852801c44b28$27eb3ec0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Zenner,
>
> Thank you for your response. I am not an unreasonable
> person, and I can see where I may have been remise by not
> using the search function, and I am sorry for that. But
> believe it or not I had not known about braindumps until a
> day ago. I usually purchase transcenders to practice
> questions before I take an exam. It is only because I
> failed the 70-220 exam that I decided to seach the net for
> free additional resources to help me practice on, that I
> came across braindumps. It was a whole new world to me,
> and I was not sure what to make of it. It did seem a bit
> shady to me, but I wanted to get others opinions. I have
> found newsgroups to be a wonderful source of information,
> and help in the past, and I thought I would just post the
> question here. I was shocked to be called a "troll", and
> more deserving if I was "ugly" too. Regardless of how a
> person feels this was unprofessional, and misdirected. If
> persons like Techie and Network Guru feel that strongly
> about it they should go on the braindumps websites and
> insult the users not me. However I appreciate your
> position, and thank you for explaining things to me.
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Insulted as you may be, there is still a search function

> in news groups and
> >most newsreaders and browsers. IF you hadn't noticed,

> this is a public
> >forum, your inocent request, is seen by thousands, maybe

> millions of
> >readers. Not all of them is having a good day. What may

> be answered with
> >humor on one day, may invoke in an entirely differ

> response after hearing
> >the same question, maybe in different words, for the

> 100th time.
> >
> >There is a long tradition of making use of the search

> function, before
> >posting a question that may have been asked and answered

> previously.
> >Acquaint yourself with it, it saves a lot bruised

> feelings and allows you a
> >chance to get a feeling for the general character of a

> newsgroup,
> >anonymously...if you chose to stay and participate then

> you will at least
> >have a rough idea of basic unwritten ground rules,

> courtesies most
> >newsgroups have developed over the years.
> >
> >I doubt if anyone seeking a certification, especially

> after completing more
> >that one or two MCP exams, has never heard about

> Braindumps, or read an
> >article on "Paper MCSE", or encountered graduates of some

> of the more
> >notorious "become an MCSE in 7 days" plans that are

> offered continuously by
> >spam spewing sites from every corner of the globe.
> >
> >OK, so you may have missed or were oblivious to these

> speed traps on the
> >road to certification. Now you know. As for being

> righteously insulted, that
> >may be true too. Alternately, from another

> perspective...current MCSEs, may
> >feel insulted when confronted with suspicions of being

> members, advocates
> >or practitioners of these same shortcuts. By staying

> silent, it could be
> >construed that we are tacitly agreeing that it is OK.
> >
> >Your feeling, as important as they are to you, are not

> the be all, end all
> >in the game of life. Welcome to the newsgroup! Hope it is

> helpful in
> >providing information that can be of use to you as you

> legitimately pursue
> >your advanced certifications.
> >
> >And I do appreciate that you took the time to respond,

> specifically to my
> >post as opposed to the others that made the same point.
> >
> >
> >"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in

> message
> >news:184f901c44b1e$52757cf0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> Excuse me Beowolf for asking a question I think needed

> to
> >> be asked. Obviously if I knew the answer I would not

> have
> >> asked. I was not seeking permission I was seeking an
> >> answer. I never said I used braindumps to pass my

> exams, I
> >> said I recently came across a site that had the same

> exact
> >> case studies, and questions as an exam I took which I

> was
> >> SURPRISE to see. Those people on that site did not see

> it
> >> as cheating, I was simply asking the opinion of others
> >> here their thoughts on it. But so far I am being

> insulted
> >> for surfing, being insulted for using a search engine

> that
> >> took me to that website, being insulted for asking a
> >> question I did not know the answer to, and did not know
> >> was TABOO. You should simply just put up a notice that
> >> says "You should asked questions as long as it is not
> >> about braindumping". Did you not read that I passed my
> >> exams using other study materials? So don't get down on
> >> me for asking a question.
> >>
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >If you are asking? Then you already know the answer! If
> >> you are seeking
> >> >permission, you will not find it here. Cheating is
> >> cheating...Oh, yea, just
> >> >in case you missed the point...it is cheating!
> >> >
> >> >I would not want to work with someone that resorted to
> >> memorizing or
> >> >copying the answers to pass the certification tests.
> >> >
> >> >We all fully realize that no one is 100% in all aspects
> >> of IT...it changes
> >> >too fast, what you learned today is revised in 6 months
> >> to a year and
> >> >obsolete in 2 to 3 years. A good IT technologist must
> >> continue to learn
> >> >throughout his career, you need to learn how to learn,
> >> research, retain and
> >> >combine diverse knowledge and concepts to stay ahead of
> >> the curve. How is a
> >> >Braindumpers "knowledge" going to be an asset to me or
> >> any other co-worker,
> >> >he is a parasite, living off the knowledge of others.
> >> Supposedly, IT is one
> >> >of the last occupations based on Merit, no unions, no
> >> guilds, no organized
> >> >professional Organizations....Ronin of Technology,

> owned
> >> by no master,
> >> >living by their skill. And you want a short cut?
> >> >"Samantha" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

> in
> >> message
> >> >news:188bd01c44b10$2b4245e0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> >> Hi All,
> >> >>
> >> >> I am currently on the windows 2000 MCSE track,and I

> have
> >> >> passed 217,219,215,& 210 using smartcertify, sybex,

> CBT
> >> >> nuggets and Transcenders to prepare. While preparing
> >> for
> >> >> the 220 exam (which I failed proviously) I was

> scouring
> >> >> the net for resources to help me, when I can across a
> >> >> website to my surprise that had the same exact

> questions
> >> >> as the ones i saw on my exam. My question is: Is

> using
> >> >> these braindumps cheating? One guy said he passed

> the 2
> >> >> exams in 3 days.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >---
> >> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> >> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system

> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >> >Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date:
> >> 6/4/2004
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >.
> >> >

> >
> >
> >---
> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date:

> 6/4/2004
> >
> >
> >.
> >



 
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The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
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      06-05-2004
>My question is: Is using
>these braindumps cheating?


Yes.

> One guy said he passed the 2
>exams in 3 days.


He is an ass****er, tell him Kline Sphere said so.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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