Part 1 of a series I'm writing

I'm writing a series of articles for Brad Reese and NetworkWorld.com that
most of you should be interested in. It's titled "The Cheating Industry that
is devaluing IT Certification" check it out.

It's currently being promoted on the main Cisco Subnet page of
NetworkWorld.com
http://www.networkworld.com/subnets/cisco/

This is part 1 of the article:
http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/13341



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CertGuard

>I'm writing a series of articles for Brad Reese and NetworkWorld.com that
>most of you should be interested in. It's titled "The Cheating Industry that
>is devaluing IT Certification" check it out.
>
>It's currently being promoted on the main Cisco Subnet page of
>NetworkWorld.com
>http://www.networkworld.com/subnets/cisco/
>
>This is part 1 of the article:
>http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/13341

the main reason why it is easy for people cheat is down to the format
of the exams. this is especially so regarding the ms exams, where
there are no 'written' or lab based exams (which many other vendors
already do) and no proof of experience in the industry is required.
until microsoft change the format for these exams, nothing will change
and ms exams will continue to be considered worthless by all but the
most stupid of ms partner body shops. if ms wanted to make their certs
respected, they would have done so a long time ago.

So, as far as ms goes, you should be pointing the finger at them as
well, because they are the root of the problem and only they can make
the changes required to make a real difference.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

Kline Sphere

"Kline Sphere" <.@> wrote in message
news:...
> >I'm writing a series of articles for Brad Reese and NetworkWorld.com that
>>most of you should be interested in. It's titled "The Cheating Industry that
>>is devaluing IT Certification" check it out.
>>
>>It's currently being promoted on the main Cisco Subnet page of
>>NetworkWorld.com
>>http://www.networkworld.com/subnets/cisco/
>>
>>This is part 1 of the article:
>>http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/13341
>
> the main reason why it is easy for people cheat is down to the format
> of the exams. this is especially so regarding the ms exams, where
> there are no 'written' or lab based exams (which many other vendors
> already do) and no proof of experience in the industry is required.
> until microsoft change the format for these exams, nothing will change
> and ms exams will continue to be considered worthless by all but the
> most stupid of ms partner body shops. if ms wanted to make their certs
> respected, they would have done so a long time ago.
>
> So, as far as ms goes, you should be pointing the finger at them as
> well, because they are the root of the problem and only they can make
> the changes required to make a real difference.
>
> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

We're working on that. One of the goals CertGuard has set to get straightened
out is Exam Security. That includes all aspects of Exam Security, from the
Testing Centers to the Vendors. I agree, even M$ needs to be critiqued on this
issue.

Chalk, I value your opinion greatly. If we're going to get the word out that
this needs to be done, I'm asking you to take a couple minutes to respond with
what you said here, on Brad's blog. There are 100s of 1000s of readers there and
many are in a position to do something about it.

Thanks

--
CertGuard

CertGuard

CertGuard wrote:
>
>
> "Kline Sphere" <.@> wrote in message
> news:...
>> >I'm writing a series of articles for Brad Reese and NetworkWorld.com
>> that
>>> most of you should be interested in. It's titled "The Cheating
>>> Industry that
>>> is devaluing IT Certification" check it out.
>>>
>>> It's currently being promoted on the main Cisco Subnet page of
>>> NetworkWorld.com
>>> http://www.networkworld.com/subnets/cisco/
>>>
>>> This is part 1 of the article:
>>> http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/13341
>>
>> the main reason why it is easy for people cheat is down to the format
>> of the exams. this is especially so regarding the ms exams, where
>> there are no 'written' or lab based exams (which many other vendors
>> already do) and no proof of experience in the industry is required.
>> until microsoft change the format for these exams, nothing will change
>> and ms exams will continue to be considered worthless by all but the
>> most stupid of ms partner body shops. if ms wanted to make their certs
>> respected, they would have done so a long time ago.
>>
>> So, as far as ms goes, you should be pointing the finger at them as
>> well, because they are the root of the problem and only they can make
>> the changes required to make a real difference.
>>
>> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
>
> We're working on that. One of the goals CertGuard has set to get
> straightened out is Exam Security. That includes all aspects of Exam
> Security, from the Testing Centers to the Vendors. I agree, even M$
> needs to be critiqued on this issue.
>
> Chalk, I value your opinion greatly. If we're going to get the word out
> that this needs to be done, I'm asking you to take a couple minutes to
> respond with what you said here, on Brad's blog. There are 100s of 1000s
> of readers there and many are in a position to do something about it.
>

Foo. Microsoft knows what needs to be done. Are you seriously going to
sit there and tell me that a multi-billion dollar company with some of
the highest-priced talent involved in their so-called certification
process can't figure out how to run the damb thing so as to cut down on
cheats? That they haven't looked at other, more respected certs and seen
how they do it? That they haven't heard all this before? Jeez. They have
heard it all right here, ferghodsake, back when they used to at least
have a presence in here.

They haven't done anything because it is a marketing program, not a
certification program. They make money off the process, and they can
show that there are thousands of "Certified" monkeys all over the world
to maintain their software for a dime an hour.

And you really expect that they are going to clean up this money mill?

Why?

If the certs meant anything, the cert holders would want more money.
Microsoft licensing is already expensive, do you expect customers to
have to cough up top dollar for tech to admin it too? As long as the
market is flooded with MCPs, they are going to be inexpensive.

Lets just recognize the program for what it is, kay?

--
JaR
A+ Net+ MCP MCSA Michael Alligood fan.
Remove hat to reply

JaR

I believe M$ will do exactly what they are doing now. A new cert path with
the exact same test format. If they want to fix, they have a lot of chance,
from NT->2K->2K3, or vs6.0-> .net 1.1 -> .net 2.0/3.0. Anyway, a cert
without exp is useless.

cheers,
RL
"CertGuard" <CertGuard - The Stronghold for Excellence in IT Certification
and Exam Security> wrote in message
news:...
>
>
> "Kline Sphere" <.@> wrote in message
> news:...
>> >I'm writing a series of articles for Brad Reese and NetworkWorld.com
>> >that
>>>most of you should be interested in. It's titled "The Cheating Industry
>>>that
>>>is devaluing IT Certification" check it out.
>>>
>>>It's currently being promoted on the main Cisco Subnet page of
>>>NetworkWorld.com
>>>http://www.networkworld.com/subnets/cisco/
>>>
>>>This is part 1 of the article:
>>>http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/13341
>>
>> the main reason why it is easy for people cheat is down to the format
>> of the exams. this is especially so regarding the ms exams, where
>> there are no 'written' or lab based exams (which many other vendors
>> already do) and no proof of experience in the industry is required.
>> until microsoft change the format for these exams, nothing will change
>> and ms exams will continue to be considered worthless by all but the
>> most stupid of ms partner body shops. if ms wanted to make their certs
>> respected, they would have done so a long time ago.
>>
>> So, as far as ms goes, you should be pointing the finger at them as
>> well, because they are the root of the problem and only they can make
>> the changes required to make a real difference.
>>
>> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
>
> We're working on that. One of the goals CertGuard has set to get
> straightened out is Exam Security. That includes all aspects of Exam
> Security, from the Testing Centers to the Vendors. I agree, even M$ needs
> to be critiqued on this issue.
>
> Chalk, I value your opinion greatly. If we're going to get the word out
> that this needs to be done, I'm asking you to take a couple minutes to
> respond with what you said here, on Brad's blog. There are 100s of 1000s
> of readers there and many are in a position to do something about it.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> CertGuard
>
>

Egghead

JaR <> wrote in
news::

> Foo. Microsoft knows what needs to be done. Are you seriously going to
> sit there and tell me that a multi-billion dollar company with some of
> the highest-priced talent involved in their so-called certification
> process can't figure out how to run the damb thing so as to cut down
> on cheats? That they haven't looked at other, more respected certs and
> seen how they do it? That they haven't heard all this before? Jeez.
> They have heard it all right here, ferghodsake, back when they used to
> at least have a presence in here.
>
> They haven't done anything because it is a marketing program, not a
> certification program. They make money off the process, and they can
> show that there are thousands of "Certified" monkeys all over the
> world to maintain their software for a dime an hour.
>
> And you really expect that they are going to clean up this money mill?
>
> Why?
>
> If the certs meant anything, the cert holders would want more money.
> Microsoft licensing is already expensive, do you expect customers to
> have to cough up top dollar for tech to admin it too? As long as the
> market is flooded with MCPs, they are going to be inexpensive.
>
> Lets just recognize the program for what it is, kay?


That was beautiful man. And right on.

....but let CertGaurd "Fight The Good Fight". It's like an insurgency,
just keep that constant steady pressure on and one day cracks will
appear, or not, that's not the point. What's right is the point. I
myself don't have the desire to hit my head against a brick wall, but
I glad some are that thick headed...um, I mean courageous.

Right On!

Fight The Power!

kpg

>I believe M$ will do exactly what they are doing now. A new cert path with
>the exact same test format. If they want to fix, they have a lot of chance,
>from NT->2K->2K3, or vs6.0-> .net 1.1 -> .net 2.0/3.0. Anyway, a cert
>without exp is useless.

too true.

certification is supposed to 'certified' something. ms certs do not
'certified' a damn thing for the reasons already stated.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

Kline Sphere

"JaR" <> wrote in message
news:...
> CertGuard wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Kline Sphere" <.@> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> >I'm writing a series of articles for Brad Reese and NetworkWorld.com
>>> that
>>>> most of you should be interested in. It's titled "The Cheating Industry
>>>> that
>>>> is devaluing IT Certification" check it out.
>>>>
>>>> It's currently being promoted on the main Cisco Subnet page of
>>>> NetworkWorld.com
>>>> http://www.networkworld.com/subnets/cisco/
>>>>
>>>> This is part 1 of the article:
>>>> http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/13341
>>>
>>> the main reason why it is easy for people cheat is down to the format
>>> of the exams. this is especially so regarding the ms exams, where
>>> there are no 'written' or lab based exams (which many other vendors
>>> already do) and no proof of experience in the industry is required.
>>> until microsoft change the format for these exams, nothing will change
>>> and ms exams will continue to be considered worthless by all but the
>>> most stupid of ms partner body shops. if ms wanted to make their certs
>>> respected, they would have done so a long time ago.
>>>
>>> So, as far as ms goes, you should be pointing the finger at them as
>>> well, because they are the root of the problem and only they can make
>>> the changes required to make a real difference.
>>>
>>> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
>>
>> We're working on that. One of the goals CertGuard has set to get straightened
>> out is Exam Security. That includes all aspects of Exam Security, from the
>> Testing Centers to the Vendors. I agree, even M$ needs to be critiqued on
>> this issue.
>>
>> Chalk, I value your opinion greatly. If we're going to get the word out that
>> this needs to be done, I'm asking you to take a couple minutes to respond
>> with what you said here, on Brad's blog. There are 100s of 1000s of readers
>> there and many are in a position to do something about it.
>>
>
> Foo. Microsoft knows what needs to be done. Are you seriously going to sit
> there and tell me that a multi-billion dollar company with some of the
> highest-priced talent involved in their so-called certification process can't
> figure out how to run the damb thing so as to cut down on cheats? That they
> haven't looked at other, more respected certs and seen how they do it? That
> they haven't heard all this before? Jeez. They have heard it all right here,
> ferghodsake, back when they used to at least have a presence in here.
>
This article wasn't directly targeted at M$ as much as it was the cheaters that
have taken advantage of every certification. Ok, there are more cheaters that
are M$ certified, and yes, it's because of reasons that Kline stated (amongst
many other reasons), but sitting here complaining to people that have heard it
all before isn't going to take care of the problem. I know how you feel, I feel
the same way. Why do you think I've opted to expand? It's time we let other's
hear our voices. Unless you just like reading your own text. I can tell you
right now that most of the 'outsiders' read a few posts in here, form an opinion
of the group as a whole, then never come back.

> They haven't done anything because it is a marketing program, not a
> certification program. They make money off the process, and they can show that
> there are thousands of "Certified" monkeys all over the world to maintain
> their software for a dime an hour.
>
Maybe so, but people are buying into it. If I'm not mistaken, your signature
says you have too. So, is being a "Certified" monkey all it's cracked up to be?
Chill...I'm just tryin to get your goat. So what says that we, as professionals
in the industry, cannot turn that around? If you're so worried about the value
of your certifications, then why haven't you done anything about it? Or is it
just something to b!tch about, it's just not worth your time to do anything
about?

> And you really expect that they are going to clean up this money mill?
>
I've come to NOT expect anything from anyone anymore. It's a worthless waste of
my time to expect someone else to do something that I can do myself. In this
case, maybe I can, maybe I can't. If I yell, 'uncle' then you'll know I've given
up.

> Why?
>
^^^

> If the certs meant anything, the cert holders would want more money. Microsoft
> licensing is already expensive, do you expect customers to have to cough up
> top dollar for tech to admin it too? As long as the market is flooded with
> MCPs, they are going to be inexpensive.
>
If they want Top Techs, yes, why not? We all know that MCP, in and of itself, is
virtually meaningless. Only when combined with other MCP exams do the certs
begin to have meaning. Unfortunately, as you've stated, an overabundance of even
those certs (MCSE, CCNP, etc.) are killing the value. You can thank the gunmen
for those, and they are being taken care of (the gunmen and the cheaters).

> Lets just recognize the program for what it is, kay?
>
Instead, why don't we take the opportunity to help shape the program into what
it should be? What does complaining about it do? I've learnt a lot in the time
that I've been here, but one thing I've known all along is that b!tching about
it doesn't work. It doesn't get your voice heard any faster than the people in
the next newsgroup, in fact, the people that should be listening closed the
doors long ago.

> --
> JaR
> A+ Net+ MCP MCSA Michael Alligood fan.
> Remove hat to reply

--
CertGuard
Get the new 'No Braindump' CertGear
http://www.cafepress.com/certguard

CertGuard

"kpg" <> wrote in message
news:Xns9907731B0FAC9ipostthereforeiam@207.46.248. 16...
>
>
> That was beautiful man. And right on.
>
> ...but let CertGaurd "Fight The Good Fight". It's like an insurgency,
> just keep that constant steady pressure on and one day cracks will
> appear, or not, that's not the point. What's right is the point. I
> myself don't have the desire to hit my head against a brick wall, but
> I glad some are that thick headed...um, I mean courageous.
>
> Right On!
>
> Fight The Power!
>
So that's all this is to you guys, huh? I guess I've kinda seen this all along,
but refused to acknowledge it. Wow, this really opens things up.

So you do just like reading your own text?! And you are saying that you DON'T
care about the certs, you just want to b!tch about them losing value. Amazing,
and to think I bought into *your* program.

Thanks for all the support, really!


--
CertGuard
Get the new 'No Braindump' CertGear
http://www.cafepress.com/certguard

CertGuard

CertGuard wrote:
>>
> This article wasn't directly targeted at M$ as much as it was the
> cheaters that have taken advantage of every certification. Ok, there are
> more cheaters that are M$ certified, and yes, it's because of reasons
> that Kline stated (amongst many other reasons), but sitting here
> complaining to people that have heard it all before isn't going to take
> care of the problem. I know how you feel, I feel the same way. Why do
> you think I've opted to expand? It's time we let other's hear our
> voices. Unless you just like reading your own text. I can tell you right
> now that most of the 'outsiders' read a few posts in here, form an
> opinion of the group as a whole, then never come back.
>

BD, I think it's great that you and Certguard have taken up the
challenge to try to make a difference with MS Certs. Go for it, dude. We
need a bulldog to spit in the face of the lusers out there devaluing our
certs. But you know, man, I look at it this way: if I can discourage one
fscking luser from going after a cert in the first place, I have done
the industry a service. We do not need *more* certified lusers. We need
talented techies that understand the industry and the software. The
'outsiders' you refer to, I could give a fsck less about.


> Maybe so, but people are buying into it. If I'm not mistaken, your
> signature says you have too. So, is being a "Certified" monkey all it's
> cracked up to be? Chill...I'm just tryin to get your goat. So what says
> that we, as professionals in the industry, cannot turn that around? If
> you're so worried about the value of your certifications, then why
> haven't you done anything about it? Or is it just something to b!tch
> about, it's just not worth your time to do anything about?
>

Yup, I bought into it. Hook, line & sinker. Just get a Microsoft cert or
three and HR droids will start tossing money at you. Then I start
applying for jobs and find out that half the clowns working behind the
service counter at CompUSA are MCSEs! Is it all it's cracked up to be?
You are joking, right? It was an incredible waste of time and money. I
will not be taking anymore MS certs on my own. If an employer wants me
to have more letters after my name he can pay for it.

Whatwould you like us to do? Write to Microsoft? Done that. Talk with
their people? We did that too. I am not worried about the value of my
so-called certs. Don't you get it? I have written them off.

The only way that we, the professionals, will be able to turn it around
will be to discourage people from participating in such a fundamentally
flawed process. Stop people from even thinking about getting certified.

Yup, we can take on the cheats, gunmen, whatever. But until MS cleans up
it's testing procedures, y'all are tilting at windmills. Sorry.
Microsoft could shut down the cheating overnight, if they had any desire
to. Simply by the steps outlined in this thread. But heck, there's other
things they could be doing as well.

They don't want to.

It's that simple.

>>
> I've come to NOT expect anything from anyone anymore. It's a worthless
> waste of my time to expect someone else to do something that I can do
> myself. In this case, maybe I can, maybe I can't. If I yell, 'uncle'
> then you'll know I've given up.
>

No, don't give up. Keep tilting at that damb windmill. Fer Ghodsakes,
you might be right, and I might be wrong. If I'm wrong about Microsoft,
and they are merely too venal to clean up the cert process, you will
have done the industry a huge service by convincing them to behave
responsibly.


> If they want Top Techs, yes, why not? We all know that MCP, in and of
> itself, is virtually meaningless. Only when combined with other MCP
> exams do the certs begin to have meaning. Unfortunately, as you've
> stated, an overabundance of even those certs (MCSE, CCNP, etc.) are
> killing the value. You can thank the gunmen for those, and they are
> being taken care of (the gunmen and the cheaters).
>

Overabundance is not 'killing' the value. It has 'killed' the value.
Period. Remember what MCSE stands for? How many MCSEs do you think there
are out there that are qualified Systems Engineers? How many MCSAs do
you think there are that could walk into any company and fill a
Sysadmin's chair?
>>
> Instead, why don't we take the opportunity to help shape the program
> into what it should be? What does complaining about it do? I've learnt a
> lot in the time that I've been here, but one thing I've known all along
> is that b!tching about it doesn't work. It doesn't get your voice heard
> any faster than the people in the next newsgroup, in fact, the people
> that should be listening closed the doors long ago.

Nope, b!tching about it does no good, other than to let off some steam.
We got sucked in once by Microsofties claiming to want our opinions on
'shaping the program'. Maybe this time will be different, but I doubt
it. They know exactly what they are doing, bro. What opportunity are you
referring to? You're right, they closed the doors long ago.

That's it. Venting over. We now return y'all to your regularly scheduled
very important stuff. Please disregard all above. I'm putting the
soapbox away for another year or so.

--
JaR
MCP, MCP, MCP, MCP, MCSA
Remove hat to reply

JaR