Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > Computer Support > W_tom - we is that $50 whole house protector link?

Reply
Thread Tools

W_tom - we is that $50 whole house protector link?

 
 
Leythos
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-28-2007
Well, w_tom says in numerous posts that Lowes and Home Depot have a cheap
$50 whole house surge protector available, but, the Lowes website doesn't
so ANY available at any cost and the Home Depot site shows nothing near
$50.

For "some" reson he avoids providing a link to the device he's claimed,
for many posts, is avaiable to protect everyone's home from surges.

In case he lies again and says it's there, check it out for yourself:

www.homedepot.com

type in "whole house protection" and you will see that there is nothing
there for $50.

Now type in (the search box) "surge suppressor" and still nothing for $50.

Now type in (the search box) "whole house" and pick the "Safety &
Security" filter - still nothing for $50.

Based on what I've seen, the Model 4860 from Leviton looks to be the best
choice, but it's $199.

What he won't tell you is that you still need a battery backup system for
your PC to fix the problems most people have - brownouts, loss of power,
etc... A whole house surge "suppressor" won't keep you from corrupting
data when the power drops out for a few seconds.

So, there you go, all the devices on the Home Depot site are well over $50.

--
Want to know what PCBUTTS1 is really about?
*** WARNING - this links contains foul/pornographic content of an
abusive nature created by PCBUTTS1 and still hosted on his public
website ***
http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/leythos.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Leythos
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-28-2007
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:51:20 -0500, Leythos wrote:

> Well, w_tom says in numerous posts that Lowes and Home Depot have a cheap
> $50 whole house surge protector available, but, the Lowes website doesn't
> so ANY available at any cost and the Home Depot site shows nothing near
> $50.
>
> For "some" reson he avoids providing a link to the device he's claimed,
> for many posts, is avaiable to protect everyone's home from surges.
>
> In case he lies again and says it's there, check it out for yourself:
>
> www.homedepot.com
>
> type in "whole house protection" and you will see that there is nothing
> there for $50.
>
> Now type in (the search box) "surge suppressor" and still nothing for $50.
>
> Now type in (the search box) "whole house" and pick the "Safety &
> Security" filter - still nothing for $50.
>
> Based on what I've seen, the Model 4860 from Leviton looks to be the best
> choice, but it's $199.
>
> What he won't tell you is that you still need a battery backup system for
> your PC to fix the problems most people have - brownouts, loss of power,
> etc... A whole house surge "suppressor" won't keep you from corrupting
> data when the power drops out for a few seconds.
>
> So, there you go, all the devices on the Home Depot site are well over $50.


Still waiting w_tom, where is the link to the cheap Lowes and Home Depot
whole house surge suppressor that you claimed they had for sale?


--
Want to know what PCBUTTS1 is really about?
*** WARNING - this links contains foul/pornographic content of an
abusive nature created by PCBUTTS1 and still hosted on his public
website ***
http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/leythos.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Robb
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2007
Leythos wrote:

>Still waiting w_tom, where is the link to the cheap Lowes and Home Depot
>whole house surge suppressor that you claimed they had for sale?



"if you don't get it in fifteen minutes, it ain't there"
- 1,000,000,000 lawyers on questioning wittness.


w_tom seems to be overly concerned with what the rest of the
world isn't in their homes - "facility grounding" and ground pole
to ground pole impedance measurements:

http://www.groundperfect.com/DeepEarthPaper.htm

That's an easy to understand, short evaluation on "earth grounding". It's
a good (basic) read for anyone interested in this discussion. Inside the U.S.
our homes aren't data centers, and the odds of losing almost everything you
own to water ingress aka "a flood", seems to be greater than the same amount
of damage occurring due to faulty grounds. Add in all the other natural
disasters that destroy homes and possessions and "ground problems" probably
fall pretty low on the list of things to be concerned about. Who really has
flood or "wind driven" object insurance?, not a lot of us..

IME I'd say grounding problems are a _very low_ priority in our lives,
aircraft work fairly well without "earthing" so should the analog/digital
circuits in a pc and it's periphs. A good UPS just might save your machine's
bacon a few times.

On the other side of the coin and FWIW;
I personally lost thousands ($) in computer gear due to lighting strikes
NEARBY - due to a vendor known defect in a redundant power supply.
The vendor RMA'd it and disclaimed responsibility. Compare that loss
to a single flood event, years earlier, one that wiped out 30 years worth
of possessions (some pricey). Water infected the whole freaking house and
everything inside was mildew-ed in less than a week, practically everything
was lost. Computers and home entertainment gear don't mean much when
your wife is ****ed off because her "memorable widgets" are destroyed.
Life is a bet, sometimes when things ****up you just have to move on
and rebuild. There are no guarantees, check the news sites for a building
in downtown Houston currently burning out of control. I doubt the
people who use that building give a rats behind if the ground system is
effective, unless it was a cause for the fire.

Back to the point.. at home, I have always used Tripp-Lite or APC - UPS and
let the power company worry about their stuff. It's simple to grab a meter
and check electric boxes on/in the house, there are plenty of cheap (few buck)
ground testers that only need to be plugged into a wall socket to indicate
a ground problem. If you can't "fix" the problem, get around it with a UPS.

</rant>

--
Robb
 
Reply With Quote
 
w_tom
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2007
On Mar 28, 2:41 pm, Leythos <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Still waiting w_tom, where is the link to the cheap Lowes and Home Depot
> whole house surge suppressor that you claimed they had for sale?


Seth posted this on 22 Jan 2007 in the newsgroup
rec.video.satellite.dbs entitled "Surge Protection" at:
http://tinyurl.com/33kyub

But then Leythos already knew that.


 
Reply With Quote
 
Leythos
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2007
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:06:40 -0700, w_tom wrote:

> On Mar 28, 2:41 pm, Leythos <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Still waiting w_tom, where is the link to the cheap Lowes and Home Depot
>> whole house surge suppressor that you claimed they had for sale?

>
> Seth posted this on 22 Jan 2007 in the newsgroup
> rec.video.satellite.dbs entitled "Surge Protection" at:
> http://tinyurl.com/33kyub
>
> But then Leythos already knew that.


Still waiting on you to post the part number and vendor so that we can
check it out - why do you divert from answering questions directly?

Still waiting on that link that you can't show.

--
Want to know what PCBUTTS1 is really about?
*** WARNING - this links contains foul/pornographic content of an
abusive nature created by PCBUTTS1 and still hosted on his public
website ***
http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/leythos.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
w_tom
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2007
On Mar 28, 8:56 pm, Robb <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> http://www.groundperfect.com/DeepEarthPaper.htm
> That's an easy to understand, short evaluation on "earth grounding". It's
> a good (basic) read for anyone interested in this discussion. Inside the U.S.
> our homes aren't data centers, and the odds of losing almost everything you
> own to water ingress aka "a flood", seems to be greater than the same amount
> of damage occurring due to faulty grounds. ...
>
> IME I'd say grounding problems are a _very low_ priority in our lives,
> aircraft work fairly well without "earthing" so should the analog/digital
> circuits in a pc and it's periphs. A good UPS just might save your machine's
> bacon a few times.


No one needs deep earth grounding to massively improve appliance
protection. Furthermore no plug-in UPS will stop surges that three
miles of sky could not. Furthermore, the typically computer UPS
connects a computer direct to AC mains when not in battery backup
mode. Is the relay protection? Of course not.

UPSes that do provide protection are building wide units with one
essential feature - connects short to a building's single point earth
ground.

Meanwhile what has been posted about earthing is trivial compared to
airplanes. Airplane grounding is so complex as to require careful
design and review. A 707 over MD and a 747 over Spain were destroyed
due to missing grounding inside the plane. Which point of a plane
becomes the equivalent of an earth ground? It can be anywhere which
is why grounding a plane is massively more complex - for surge
protection. Notice the earth ground in this picture:
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/pub/ltg/plane_japan.php
Next time, it might be from a wingtip. And still that is complex.
Posted here for building protection is quite simple - and even easier
if installed when footings for the foundation are poured.

But that is irrelevant here. Simple protection for household
electronics: which is not provided by plug-in UPSes, which that UPS
manufacturer does not even claim to provide, which is inside the
electronics, and which requires surges be earthed before entering a
building.

And not just any earth ground or deep earth grounding. Required is
single point earthing AND every wire in every cable connected to that
earthing before entering a building. IOW what a 'whole house'
protector does and what a plug-in UPS does not even claim to do.

Protectors or plug-in UPSes don't provide protection. Protection is
earthing. Effective protectors make the 'less than 10 foot'
connection to single point earthing.

 
Reply With Quote
 
Robb
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2007
"w_tom" wrote:

>Seth posted this on 22 Jan 2007 in the newsgroup
>rec.video.satellite.dbs entitled "Surge Protection" at:
> http://tinyurl.com/33kyub


It's the same crap! Are you copying and pasting your own posts?
Home Depot, Lowes and apparently no one else has the devices
=> (READ THE POST).

Home improvement stores don't dot the landscape like McDonalds,
an online list isn't that hard to do. It would show they handle them
instead of dragging a person 50+ miles to the store JUST to check.

Get a quality UPS and test it yourself for a few years. If you don't have
a damn near direct lightning strike _your_ equipment will be fine.

Here're the posts, one person "claims" to have bought a sub 50 dollar
unit locally, but you can't find any online, making them essentially equal
to vaporware.


----------------------

Old stuff same as the current stuff

> Bob M View profile
> More options Jan 22, 12:33 pm
>
>Newsgroups: rec.video.satellite.dbs
>From: Bob M <(E-Mail Removed)>
>Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:33:37 -0600
>Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 12:33 pm
>Subject: Re: Surge Protection
>w_tom wrote:
>> Dave wrote:

>
>>>Short answer, keep what you've got, but remember to replace it with a new
>>>one every two years (all surge suppressors lose effectiveness over time).
>>>And regardless of how your equipment is protected, UNPLUG IT during
>>>thunderstorms and when thunderstorms are predicted. If you spend $1,000,000
>>>on a surge suppressor, that puppy will be fried by lightning... and
>>>everything connected to it, as well. ...

>
>
>> Myths are widespread. Why must a plug-in protector be replaced
>> frequently? Too few joules. By making them undersized, then protector
>> will fail. The naive then recommend a protector to friends and buy
>> more only because it smoked. An effective protector is properly sized
>> - remains functional after a direct lightning strike. But the naive
>> would not know a surge existed and would not recommend that protector.
>> Why are they undersized? More sales. Why replace them often? But
>> undersized means not an effective protector.

>
>
>> Direct lightning strikes average about 20,000 amps. Effective 'whole
>> house' protectors start at 50,000 amps. These are even sold in Lowes
>> and Home Depot for less than $50. Facts and numbers explain why we
>> have installed 'whole house' type protector to earth direct lightning
>> strikes even long before WWII.

>
>
>
> Hmmmmmm. Home Depot shows only 1 and it's priced at $199. Please tell
>me where I can get one for less than $50. Also the protector at HD says
>it will not protect from lightning strikes.
>
> Bob


------------------


>10. Seth View profile
> More options Jan 22, 5:17 pm
>Newsgroups: rec.video.satellite.dbs
>From: "Seth" <(E-Mail Removed)>
>Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:17:01 -0500
>Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 5:17 pm
>Subject: Re: Surge Protection
>"Bob M" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>
>
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>
>
>
>> w_tom wrote:
>>> Dave wrote:

>
>>>>Short answer, keep what you've got, but remember to replace it with a new
>>>>one every two years (all surge suppressors lose effectiveness over time).
>>>>And regardless of how your equipment is protected, UNPLUG IT during
>>>>thunderstorms and when thunderstorms are predicted. If you spend
>>>>$1,000,000
>>>>on a surge suppressor, that puppy will be fried by lightning... and
>>>>everything connected to it, as well. ...

>
>
>>> Myths are widespread. Why must a plug-in protector be replaced
>>> frequently? Too few joules. By making them undersized, then protector
>>> will fail. The naive then recommend a protector to friends and buy
>>> more only because it smoked. An effective protector is properly sized
>>> - remains functional after a direct lightning strike. But the naive
>>> would not know a surge existed and would not recommend that protector.
>>> Why are they undersized? More sales. Why replace them often? But
>>> undersized means not an effective protector.

>
>
>>> Direct lightning strikes average about 20,000 amps. Effective 'whole
>>> house' protectors start at 50,000 amps. These are even sold in Lowes
>>> and Home Depot for less than $50. Facts and numbers explain why we
>>> have installed 'whole house' type protector to earth direct lightning
>>> strikes even long before WWII.

>
>
>> Hmmmmmm. Home Depot shows only 1 and it's priced at $199. Please tell me
>> where I can get one for less than $50. Also the protector at HD says it
>> will not protect from lightning strikes.

>
>
>
>Hardly anything will protect from lightening strikes.
>
>Home Depot doesn't list all they carry on the website as some items are not
>available in all locations. I bought my Intermatic panel mouted surge
>supressor at the Poughkeepsie, NY Home Depot for $47. External unit that
>mounts to a knock-out on the side of the panel.
>
>
>Couldn't find it at any of the stores surrounding my parents house in Hobe
>Sound, FL and ended up getting a panel specific unit (actually mounted in a
>pair of open slots inside the panel) at Lowes for about $60.
>
>
>I also have all the lines coming into my house on a common ground. Cable,
>power, phone and satellite. SInce putting in the whole house protection
>I've even gone through less lightbulbs as they (seem) to go out less often.

 
Reply With Quote
 
Robb
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2007
w_tom wrote:
>On Mar 28, 8:56 pm, Robb <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> http://www.groundperfect.com/DeepEarthPaper.htm


<snip redundancies>

>No one needs deep earth grounding to massively improve appliance
>protection.


Have you ever lived in a steel-roofed house? If not I challenge your
assertion that "no one needs it". Can you prove "no one needs" deep
ground protection, soil impedance measurement and concurrent
/normalizing/?


> Meanwhile what has been posted about earthing is trivial compared to
>airplanes. Airplane grounding is so complex as to require careful
>design and review. A 707 over MD and a 747 over Spain were destroyed
>due to missing grounding inside the plane. Which point of a plane
>becomes the equivalent of an earth ground? It can be anywhere which
>is why grounding a plane is massively more complex - for surge
>protection. Notice the earth ground in this picture:


You really shouldn't explain aircraft circuitry to me.

Really. Unless you also build aircraft <g>.


> http://www.crh.noaa.gov/pub/ltg/plane_japan.php
>Next time, it might be from a wingtip. And still that is complex.
>Posted here for building protection is quite simple - and even easier
>if installed when footings for the foundation are poured.


That was part of the point.

>IOW what a 'whole house' protector does and what a plug-in UPS
>does not even claim to do.


Juice is clamped by the UPS's. MOV's are intended to self-destruct doing
their job.


--
Robb
 
Reply With Quote
 
bud--
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2007
On Mar 28, 8:06 pm, "w_tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Mar 28, 2:41 pm, Leythos <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > Still waiting w_tom, where is the link to the cheap Lowes and Home Depot
> > whole house surge suppressor that you claimed they had for sale?

>
> Seth posted this on 22 Jan 2007 in the newsgroup
> rec.video.satellite.dbs entitled "Surge Protection" at:
> http://tinyurl.com/33kyub
>
> But then Leythos already knew that.



Lethos and I both looked online at Lowes (no service panel surge
protectors) and Home Depot (no protectors near $50). But then w_
already knew that. Caught in what is now clearly a lie, w_ posts
irrelevant information from the past.

And neither surge protectors at Home Depot had any specs. By w_'s
standards they are junk. Or do you recommend susppressors with no
specs now?

So w_, are $50 suppressors available? Now? Where? Inquiring minds
want to know.

--
bud--

 
Reply With Quote
 
bud--
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2007
On Mar 28, 8:31 pm, "w_tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Meanwhile what has been posted about earthing is trivial compared to
> airplanes. Airplane grounding is so complex as to require careful
> design and review.

But "no earth ground means no effective protection." Do they drag an
earthing chain??

>
> Protectors or plug-in UPSes don't provide protection. Protection is
> earthing. Effective protectors make the 'less than 10 foot'
> connection to single point earthing.

Both the IEEE guide on surges and surge protection at
http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Li...ion_May051.pdf
and the NIST guide at:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/p.../surgesfnl.pdf
say plug-in surge suppressors are effective.

UPSs may or may not have that protection included. If included, they
should be listed under UL 1449.

Still missing - a link that says plug-in suppressors are not
effective. Maybe it got misplaced with the $50 service panel
suppressor link??

--
bud--



 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
problem in running a basic code in python 3.3.0 that includes HTML file Satabdi Mukherjee Python 1 04-04-2013 07:48 PM
W_Tom - what is the part number/model of your whole houseprotector? Leythos Computer Support 6 03-30-2007 12:07 AM
Re: Repost: All about surge protection by W_Tom ilmc Computer Support 0 07-29-2003 08:15 PM
Re: Repost: All about surge protection by W_Tom ImhoTech Computer Support 0 07-29-2003 06:49 PM
Re: Repost: All about surge protection by W_Tom BananaPannaPoe Computer Support 0 07-29-2003 06:11 PM



Advertisments