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how to quit

 
 
Thomas Dickey
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      03-28-2007
Richard Tobin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Thomas Dickey <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>>>> If you have proof that there are no exceptions, then send an email to
>>>> Steve and he will correct it, I imagine.


>>btw, his copyright precludes any extensive discussion.
>>
>> http://c-faq.com/copyright.html


> How can copyright preclude discussion?


Read the page (obviously you either did not, or the implication of
extensive discussion was too elusive .

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Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
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Keith Thompson
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      03-28-2007
Thomas Dickey <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> user923005 <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> If you have proof that there are no exceptions, then send an email to
>> Steve and he will correct it, I imagine.

>
> He said he would the last time I pointed out an error.
> He didn't correct it.

[...]

He is but human. Consider trying again.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
 
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Kenny McCormack
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      03-28-2007
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Keith Thompson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Thomas Dickey <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>> user923005 <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> If you have proof that there are no exceptions, then send an email to
>>> Steve and he will correct it, I imagine.

>>
>> He said he would the last time I pointed out an error.
>> He didn't correct it.

>[...]
>
>He is but human. Consider trying again.


The implication is that this was not a one time occurrence.

My reading of Thomas's text is that he has pointed out several errors
over the years, and that, on at least one occasion, Steve explicitly
said that it would be fixed, but nothing happened. Hence the loss of
faith.

 
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Default User
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      03-28-2007
Thomas Dickey wrote:

> Richard Tobin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> > Thomas Dickey <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> >>>> If you have proof that there are no exceptions, then send an

> email to >>>> Steve and he will correct it, I imagine.
>
> > > btw, his copyright precludes any extensive discussion.
> > >
> > > http://c-faq.com/copyright.html

>
> > How can copyright preclude discussion?

>
> Read the page (obviously you either did not, or the implication of
> extensive discussion was too elusive .



Yeah, so? Besides not seeing anything in there relevant to what you
say, the copyright holder can't make it more restrictive than the law
allows.




Brian
 
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Keith Thompson
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      03-29-2007
Thomas Dickey <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> Thomas Dickey <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> user923005 <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>>> If you have proof that there are no exceptions, then send an email to
>>> Steve and he will correct it, I imagine.

>
> btw, his copyright precludes any extensive discussion.
>
> http://c-faq.com/copyright.html


Here's what that page currently says (I'm going to assume that quoting
it is covered under fair use):

This collection of hypertext pages is Copyright 1995-2005 by Steve
Summit. Content from the book "C Programming FAQs: Frequently
Asked Questions" (Addison-Wesley, 1995, ISBN 0-201-84519-9) is
made available here by permission of the author and the publisher
as a service to the community. It is intended to complement the
use of the published text and is protected by international
copyright laws. The on-line content may be accessed freely for
personal use but may not be published or retransmitted without
explicit permission.

I see nothing there that precludes discussion, unless you assume that
discussion requires quoting substantial parts of the FAQ. Since the
FAQ is well indexed, a great deal of discussion can take place using
question numbers or hyperlinks.

I Am Not A Lawyer.

Re-posting the entire FAQ would fairly clearly be a copyright
violation. Citing individual questions presumably would not. Quoting
portions of it might or might not fall under fair use, depending on
the size of the quotation and on other factors about which, not being
a lawyer, I won't speculate.

Steve has tended to be reasonably generous in allowing use of the FAQ,
at least as generous as his publisher allows him to be. People have
occasionally quoted entire pages here, with no complaint from Steve.
(Personally, I prefer just to cite question numbers, not just to avoid
copyright infringement, but because it encourages readers to browse
nearby portions of the document.)

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) (E-Mail Removed) <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
 
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Kenneth Brody
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      03-29-2007
Thomas Dickey wrote:
>
> user923005 <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > If you have proof that there are no exceptions, then send an email to
> > Steve and he will correct it, I imagine.

>
> He said he would the last time I pointed out an error.
> He didn't correct it.
>
> > I guess that there is at least one exception in either case.
> > Of course, both statements are mathematically true, because 'some' is
> > a subset of 'all'.
> > In any case, it's a nit.

>
> hmm - no. It's incorrect, and (even given the old information that he
> used), was never correct since the FAQ was written.


I, presonally, have used versions of termcap that had no concept
as "function keys" (ie: F1, F2, and so on). Of course, that was
some 20 years ago, and the modern implementations that I have seen
have entries for such keys. Whether any versions still exist that
do not support them, I cannot say.

--
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------+
| Kenneth J. Brody | www.hvcomputer.com | #include |
| kenbrody/at\spamcop.net | www.fptech.com | <std_disclaimer.h> |
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------+
Don't e-mail me at: <(E-Mail Removed)>

 
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Thomas Dickey
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      03-29-2007
Kenneth Brody <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Thomas Dickey wrote:
>> hmm - no. It's incorrect, and (even given the old information that he
>> used), was never correct since the FAQ was written.


> I, presonally, have used versions of termcap that had no concept
> as "function keys" (ie: F1, F2, and so on). Of course, that was
> some 20 years ago, and the modern implementations that I have seen
> have entries for such keys. Whether any versions still exist that
> do not support them, I cannot say.


hmm. termcap stores the whole entry as a string. Function keys and
other capabilities are string-capabilities with conventional (not
standardized) names. So any termcap file can represent function keys.

That is, unless you were using some highly advanced technology which
deduced that some capability names referred to function keys and
prevented you from using them.

If that's the case, you should elaborate on it.

More likely, you simply did not know.

termcap, when I first encountered it in the early 80's was certainly
capable of representing function keys. It was taken for granted that
termcap could represent anything that an application needed from a
terminal.

Curses did not necessarily have a parser for those (as I recall writing
one in late 1983/early 1984 to make BSD 4.3's curses more palatable with
a couple of terminals for some applications that used both cursor-keys
and function-keys).

Here's one -

http://vt100.net/annarbor/aaa-ug/section4.html#S4.1

--
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net
 
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Kenneth Brody
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      03-29-2007
Thomas Dickey wrote:
>
> Kenneth Brody <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > Thomas Dickey wrote:
> >> hmm - no. It's incorrect, and (even given the old information that he
> >> used), was never correct since the FAQ was written.

>
> > I, presonally, have used versions of termcap that had no concept
> > as "function keys" (ie: F1, F2, and so on). Of course, that was
> > some 20 years ago, and the modern implementations that I have seen
> > have entries for such keys. Whether any versions still exist that
> > do not support them, I cannot say.

>
> hmm. termcap stores the whole entry as a string. Function keys and
> other capabilities are string-capabilities with conventional (not
> standardized) names. So any termcap file can represent function keys.


Okay, let me clarify...

What I meant was that there were no standardized entries for such
keys. So, unless you wanted to write custom termcap entries for
every terminal you wanted to support, you were stuck with the
standard, defined entries. Current versions appear to have
defined a standard set of entries for these keys.

On the other hand, current versions of termcap are often simply
wrappers to terminfo routines, and terminfo is not extensible. If
the entry wasn't defined by the implementor of the library, you
cannot add it.

Now, we defined our own entries for the functionality we wanted to
support, and wrote a wrapper around the termcap routines that could
use both the /etc/termcap file (or $TERMCAP), plus our application-
specific termcap file stored elsewhere. This allowed us to simply
enhance the existing termcap file, rather than replace it.

Of course, all of this is OT for clc. On the other hand, writing
a termcap library would probably be topical for clc, as you could
implement it in ANSI C, AFAIK. After all, it's just some functions
which read and parse a text file, and then use that info to send
things to stdout.

[...]

--
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------+
| Kenneth J. Brody | www.hvcomputer.com | #include |
| kenbrody/at\spamcop.net | www.fptech.com | <std_disclaimer.h> |
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------+
Don't e-mail me at: <(E-Mail Removed)>

 
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Thomas Dickey
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      03-29-2007
Kenneth Brody <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Thomas Dickey wrote:
>> Kenneth Brody <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> > I, presonally, have used versions of termcap that had no concept
>> > as "function keys" (ie: F1, F2, and so on). Of course, that was
>> > some 20 years ago, and the modern implementations that I have seen
>> > have entries for such keys. Whether any versions still exist that
>> > do not support them, I cannot say.

>> hmm. termcap stores the whole entry as a string. Function keys and
>> other capabilities are string-capabilities with conventional (not
>> standardized) names. So any termcap file can represent function keys.


> Okay, let me clarify...


You didn't have to (the time would have been better spent by checking).

BSD 4.2 (I see the file's date July 1, 1983 - more than 20 years)
distributed a termcap with k1, k2, etc., in its entries. A quick check
shows 35 entries with _that_ much use of function keys.

That convention is still in use. You may not have used or even been
aware of it (there were manpages...), but other people used it, and
assumed it.

--
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net
 
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Thomas Dickey
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      03-29-2007
Kenneth Brody <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Of course, all of this is OT for clc. On the other hand, writing


I'm afraid not:
discussing inaccuracies in a newsgroup's faq is always on topic.

--
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
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