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Vista's replacement for My Documents

 
 
Charlie Russel - MVP
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-08-2007
And yes, you may post here. We still love you DP.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64


"DP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>> "mikeyhsd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> why do you insist on cross posting between xp and vista for vista
>>> questions.

>
> Thanks, Officer Mikey. "Insist"? I can swear to you this is the first
> time I've ever cross-posted to this and a Vista group. I know, because I
> had to teach myself how to crosspost in order to do it.
> If you can find some other example of when I did so, please provide the
> evidence. If not, then please apologize.
>
>>>
>>> there are plenty of people to provide help and answers in the vista news
>>> groups. and not many in the xp groups that can help with vista.

>
> I was a user of XP Professional X64 before I was a Vista user. I was
> reading the 64-bit group long before I went to any Vista groups.
> As a result, I appreciate the knowledge of the members of the 64-bit
> group -- a kind of brain trust, as it were. By comparison, I see a lot of
> newbies asking very basic questions in the Vista group.
>
> One more thing: It was a member of this group who clued me in to the
> importance of the My Documents folder.
>
>>>
>>> (E-Mail Removed)@sport.rr.com
>>>
>>> "DP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Smart users of XP knew that My Documents was the best place to save
>>> stuff.
>>> I've forgotten the exact reason for that (maybe someone can jump in and
>>> explain). I believe it had to do with what gets swept up when setting
>>> System
>>> Restore points.
>>>
>>> In Vista, there is a Documents folder, but not My Documents. Is the
>>> Documents folder the safe place to save stuff now in terms of what
>>> System
>>> Restore will save when a new restore point is set?
>>>

>>

>


 
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DP
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-08-2007

Back at ya, dawg.


"Charlie Russel - MVP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> And yes, you may post here. We still love you DP.
>
> --
> Charlie.
> http://msmvps.com/xperts64
>
>
> "DP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>>> "mikeyhsd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> why do you insist on cross posting between xp and vista for vista
>>>> questions.

>>
>> Thanks, Officer Mikey. "Insist"? I can swear to you this is the first
>> time I've ever cross-posted to this and a Vista group. I know, because I
>> had to teach myself how to crosspost in order to do it.
>> If you can find some other example of when I did so, please provide the
>> evidence. If not, then please apologize.
>>
>>>>
>>>> there are plenty of people to provide help and answers in the vista
>>>> news groups. and not many in the xp groups that can help with vista.

>>
>> I was a user of XP Professional X64 before I was a Vista user. I was
>> reading the 64-bit group long before I went to any Vista groups.
>> As a result, I appreciate the knowledge of the members of the 64-bit
>> group -- a kind of brain trust, as it were. By comparison, I see a lot of
>> newbies asking very basic questions in the Vista group.
>>
>> One more thing: It was a member of this group who clued me in to the
>> importance of the My Documents folder.
>>
>>>>
>>>> (E-Mail Removed)@sport.rr.com
>>>>
>>>> "DP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> Smart users of XP knew that My Documents was the best place to save
>>>> stuff.
>>>> I've forgotten the exact reason for that (maybe someone can jump in
>>>> and
>>>> explain). I believe it had to do with what gets swept up when setting
>>>> System
>>>> Restore points.
>>>>
>>>> In Vista, there is a Documents folder, but not My Documents. Is the
>>>> Documents folder the safe place to save stuff now in terms of what
>>>> System
>>>> Restore will save when a new restore point is set?
>>>>
>>>

>>

>


 
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mikeyhsd
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-08-2007
you should never STORE valuable data is system level folders. just like Inbox in WM.

best to use a second hard drive or other backup media and store it away from windows control.


(E-Mail Removed)@sport.rr.com

"DP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...

"Homer J. Simpson" <root@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Smart users of XP knew that My Documents was the best place to save
>> stuff.

>
> I will have to disagree with that assertion.
>


Thanks for the thoughtful post. Let me say what I meant by the line from my
original post that you repeated. What I meant to say is that if you save
your stuff to My Documents, you know that you're saving it in a place where
it will be preserved by System Restore.

I agree with you that it's nice to put things where you want them. And I
still do that to a large extent. I guess what I meant was that when I know
something positively absolutely has to be there if I'm ever called upon to
do a system restore, the My Documents is the magic folder where I should be
saving things.

Yes, it's counterintuitive to save EVERYTHING to My Documents. It seems to
defeat the purpose of the folder system. Sort of like Using Quicken or MS
Money and then categorizing all of your expenditures as "miscellaneous."

One thing I've taken to doing (tho I don't do this exclusively) is to store
a lot of stuff in My Documents (or that's what I did with XP X64) in their
own folders and then to use desktop shortcuts to them. So in a way, I'm
categorizing things in folders, but using the safety of My Documents for
them.

One mild criticism of your post, though: It seems kind of silly to criticize
MS and other software manufacturers because you created a system in which My
Documents has a maximum size and then exceed the maximum. MS didn't create
it that way, so it's really a problem of your own making.

Thanks again. You raise good points.







 
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Homer J. Simpson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-08-2007
> One mild criticism of your post, though: It seems kind of silly to
> criticize MS and other software manufacturers because you created a system
> in which My Documents has a maximum size and then exceed the maximum. MS
> didn't create it that way, so it's really a problem of your own making.


I can't stress enough the fact that *my* files, that I put under My
Documents, total less than 2GB. The fact that I ran out of room on this
4.35GB partition is due to the presence of data *I* did not put there, and
*do not* want there, but still can't move elsewhere because some silly apps
decided that this is where they were gonna store them files without ever
asking me.

I do honestly think that such scenarios represent poor decisions made by
software developers (or, rather, whoever designed the software). I'm saying
this as a developer myself.


 
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Richard Urban
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-08-2007
Most applications can be directed where they store files that you create
within the respective programs.

I don't know why you are upset because some programs follow the Windows
protocol? Programs are "supposed" to store files that you create from within
in the My Documents , or now - the Documents, folder. That way you know
where they are and are easy to backup.

The programs themselves must never install themselves to that folder
however. If it does, it is either poorly written or someone directed the
installer to put the program there.

Another protocol is that all programs are to be installed to Program Files
in the Windows partition. If you don't like that, you can change it also.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


"Homer J. Simpson" <root@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> One mild criticism of your post, though: It seems kind of silly to
>> criticize MS and other software manufacturers because you created a
>> system in which My Documents has a maximum size and then exceed the
>> maximum. MS didn't create it that way, so it's really a problem of your
>> own making.

>
> I can't stress enough the fact that *my* files, that I put under My
> Documents, total less than 2GB. The fact that I ran out of room on this
> 4.35GB partition is due to the presence of data *I* did not put there, and
> *do not* want there, but still can't move elsewhere because some silly
> apps decided that this is where they were gonna store them files without
> ever asking me.
>
> I do honestly think that such scenarios represent poor decisions made by
> software developers (or, rather, whoever designed the software). I'm
> saying this as a developer myself.
>
>


 
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DP
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-09-2007
True. In addition to what I described below, I also back them up onto CDs and external drives.
"mikeyhsd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
you should never STORE valuable data is system level folders. just like Inbox in WM.

best to use a second hard drive or other backup media and store it away from windows control.


(E-Mail Removed)@sport.rr.com

"DP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...

"Homer J. Simpson" <root@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Smart users of XP knew that My Documents was the best place to save
>> stuff.

>
> I will have to disagree with that assertion.
>


Thanks for the thoughtful post. Let me say what I meant by the line from my
original post that you repeated. What I meant to say is that if you save
your stuff to My Documents, you know that you're saving it in a place where
it will be preserved by System Restore.

I agree with you that it's nice to put things where you want them. And I
still do that to a large extent. I guess what I meant was that when I know
something positively absolutely has to be there if I'm ever called upon to
do a system restore, the My Documents is the magic folder where I should be
saving things.

Yes, it's counterintuitive to save EVERYTHING to My Documents. It seems to
defeat the purpose of the folder system. Sort of like Using Quicken or MS
Money and then categorizing all of your expenditures as "miscellaneous."

One thing I've taken to doing (tho I don't do this exclusively) is to store
a lot of stuff in My Documents (or that's what I did with XP X64) in their
own folders and then to use desktop shortcuts to them. So in a way, I'm
categorizing things in folders, but using the safety of My Documents for
them.

One mild criticism of your post, though: It seems kind of silly to criticize
MS and other software manufacturers because you created a system in which My
Documents has a maximum size and then exceed the maximum. MS didn't create
it that way, so it's really a problem of your own making.

Thanks again. You raise good points.







 
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Dshai
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-10-2007
I think perhaps if you don't like the question that starts, or maybe continues the string then you should close it and go to the next string, maybe there you'll find Q&A that more suits your idea of what this NG is all about.

--

Dshai

Life is only limited by those living it...

"mikeyhsd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
the question did not mention 64.

(E-Mail Removed)@sport.rr.com

"Charlie Russel - MVP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
This group is for all things 64-bit. Not for XP x64 only. This is an
appropriate newsgroup for Vista x64 questions that are truly 64-bit
specific. That's what we're here for.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64


"mikeyhsd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
why do you insist on cross posting between xp and vista for vista questions.

there are plenty of people to provide help and answers in the vista news
groups. and not many in the xp groups that can help with vista.


(E-Mail Removed)@sport.rr.com

"DP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
Smart users of XP knew that My Documents was the best place to save stuff.
I've forgotten the exact reason for that (maybe someone can jump in and
explain). I believe it had to do with what gets swept up when setting
System
Restore points.

In Vista, there is a Documents folder, but not My Documents. Is the
Documents folder the safe place to save stuff now in terms of what System
Restore will save when a new restore point is set?

 
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Homer J. Simpson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-18-2007
> I don't know why you are upset because some programs follow the Windows
> protocol? Programs are "supposed" to store **files that you create from
> within** in the My Documents


["**" emphasis mine]

I have an "EA Games" folder in My Documents. *I* didn't create it, some
game did, and it never asked me whether it was okay, and it doesn't provide
any means to move it elsewhere. I don't want it there, and I don't want it
to be part of my regular backup set.

I have a "My Music" folder in My Documents. *I* didn't create it, yet I
can't get rid of it; I already have a separate partition on which I dump all
my music files. I don't want it under My Documents; there's no point in
backing up MP3s when they've actually been copied *from* my CDs originally
onto my hard drive. They don't belong on my regular backup set.

I have a "My Pictures" folder in My Documents. *I* didn't create it, yet I
can't get rid of it; I don't keep a collection of pictures on my hard drive.

I have a "My Received Files" folder in My Documents. *I* didn't create it;
if someone sends me some file through Messenger, it'll get put elsewhere;
where, exactly, depends on the nature of the file. I always use 'Save
As...' when someone sends me a file. It would be silly to let all the files
that everybody sends me pile up in one folder.

I have a "My Videos" folder in My Documents. *I* didn't create it, yet I
can't get rid of it; if I have important videos, they're already on CDs/DVDs
and they don't need to be part of my regular backup set.

I had an "Updater5" folder in My Documents (exact name might not be
accurate; this is going from memory). After much mucking around, I figured
out Adobe Acrobat Reader creates it (without asking me), and the option to
disable that is buried in its options. Whatever crap normally ends up there
is not any file I created myself, and doesn't need to be part of my regular
backup set.

Do you see a pattern here? *That's* why I'm upset to find stuff I didn't
create under My Documents.

If a file is created without prompting me for a path/name, *it does not
belong under My Documents*--ever. No ifs or buts about it.

Any binary file that contain data I don't recognize, need or use has no
business going under "My Documents".

The only thing(s) that should be allowed under My Documents is anything I've
saved there myself after going through a 'Save As...' dialog box, or dragged
with Explorer.

If only that was the case, backup routines could consist of a single click,
without having to build exclusion lists.


 
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Richard Urban
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-19-2007
If you do not want the default Windows folders in My Documents, design
another operating system and do as you wish with it. An O/S has to start
somewhere and that is where Microsoft has chosen to have these things. They
also "strongly" encourage the software manufacturers to go along with this
scheme. The majority have.

You can not delete system folders. They will be recreated automatically.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


"Homer J. Simpson" <root@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I don't know why you are upset because some programs follow the Windows
>> protocol? Programs are "supposed" to store **files that you create from
>> within** in the My Documents

>
> ["**" emphasis mine]
>
> I have an "EA Games" folder in My Documents. *I* didn't create it, some
> game did, and it never asked me whether it was okay, and it doesn't
> provide any means to move it elsewhere. I don't want it there, and I
> don't want it to be part of my regular backup set.
>
> I have a "My Music" folder in My Documents. *I* didn't create it, yet I
> can't get rid of it; I already have a separate partition on which I dump
> all my music files. I don't want it under My Documents; there's no point
> in backing up MP3s when they've actually been copied *from* my CDs
> originally onto my hard drive. They don't belong on my regular backup
> set.
>
> I have a "My Pictures" folder in My Documents. *I* didn't create it, yet
> I can't get rid of it; I don't keep a collection of pictures on my hard
> drive.
>
> I have a "My Received Files" folder in My Documents. *I* didn't create
> it; if someone sends me some file through Messenger, it'll get put
> elsewhere; where, exactly, depends on the nature of the file. I always
> use 'Save As...' when someone sends me a file. It would be silly to let
> all the files that everybody sends me pile up in one folder.
>
> I have a "My Videos" folder in My Documents. *I* didn't create it, yet I
> can't get rid of it; if I have important videos, they're already on
> CDs/DVDs and they don't need to be part of my regular backup set.
>
> I had an "Updater5" folder in My Documents (exact name might not be
> accurate; this is going from memory). After much mucking around, I
> figured out Adobe Acrobat Reader creates it (without asking me), and the
> option to disable that is buried in its options. Whatever crap normally
> ends up there is not any file I created myself, and doesn't need to be
> part of my regular backup set.
>
> Do you see a pattern here? *That's* why I'm upset to find stuff I didn't
> create under My Documents.
>
> If a file is created without prompting me for a path/name, *it does not
> belong under My Documents*--ever. No ifs or buts about it.
>
> Any binary file that contain data I don't recognize, need or use has no
> business going under "My Documents".
>
> The only thing(s) that should be allowed under My Documents is anything
> I've saved there myself after going through a 'Save As...' dialog box, or
> dragged with Explorer.
>
> If only that was the case, backup routines could consist of a single
> click, without having to build exclusion lists.
>
>


 
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Austin Ehlers
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-19-2007
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:04:20 -0400, "Richard Urban"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>If you do not want the default Windows folders in My Documents, design
>another operating system and do as you wish with it. An O/S has to start
>somewhere and that is where Microsoft has chosen to have these things. They
>also "strongly" encourage the software manufacturers to go along with this
>scheme. The majority have.


No, these are bad programs. Only things *directly* created by the
user belong in the Documents folder. Everything else belongs in
either User\AppData\Local\, User\AppData\Roaming, or c:\programdata.

Austin
 
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