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Dual boot operating system depends on ntldr and ntdetect version??

 
 
=?Utf-8?B?ZGFrb3RhMDI=?=
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
I have a dual boot system that I am trying to get up and running, but I
cannot get dual boot to work without constantly changing the versions of
ntldr and dtdetect.com in c:\ . I have 33 scsi drives, and the first drive is
divided into 3 volumes, c, f, and z. C and F are NTFS, Z is fat32 (eventually
I may want to load an old operating system there, but for now it is basically
unused or for data storage.
Anyway, win2k is up and running on F, in f:\winnt It has been working for
almost 2 years. When I first set up the system, I tried dual boot with xp
x64, but it stopped working after a while, and I just used it as a win2k
machine. Now, I have reloaded xp x64 into c:\windows. I have dual boot set
up, and it looks correct, but, if the version of ntldr and ntdetect in c:\
are the newer ones supplied with xp x64, then xp x64 boots up fine, but I get
an error message "winnt\system32\config\system missing or corrupt" if I try
to boot win2k. If I replace the ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ with the older
versions from win2k sp4, then win2k boots up fine, but I get an error about a
missing or corrupt ntoskrnl.exe file, and I cannot boot xp x64.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. This is driving me nuts!!!

 
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John Barnes
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
are you changing your boot.ini also.

"dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I have a dual boot system that I am trying to get up and running, but I
> cannot get dual boot to work without constantly changing the versions of
> ntldr and dtdetect.com in c:\ . I have 33 scsi drives, and the first drive
> is
> divided into 3 volumes, c, f, and z. C and F are NTFS, Z is fat32
> (eventually
> I may want to load an old operating system there, but for now it is
> basically
> unused or for data storage.
> Anyway, win2k is up and running on F, in f:\winnt It has been working for
> almost 2 years. When I first set up the system, I tried dual boot with xp
> x64, but it stopped working after a while, and I just used it as a win2k
> machine. Now, I have reloaded xp x64 into c:\windows. I have dual boot set
> up, and it looks correct, but, if the version of ntldr and ntdetect in c:\
> are the newer ones supplied with xp x64, then xp x64 boots up fine, but I
> get
> an error message "winnt\system32\config\system missing or corrupt" if I
> try
> to boot win2k. If I replace the ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ with the
> older
> versions from win2k sp4, then win2k boots up fine, but I get an error
> about a
> missing or corrupt ntoskrnl.exe file, and I cannot boot xp x64.
>
> Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. This is driving me nuts!!!
>


 
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R. C. White, MVP
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
Hi, Dakota.

33 SCSI drives? Really? Wow!

Microsoft's dual-boot setup works very well. I've been using it for nearly
10 years, ever since Win95/NT4. It works well, that is, IF you do it in the
proper sequence. We usually hear that we must "install the oldest system
first". It really means to "install the newest system last". That sounds
like the same thing - and it is if you are installing only two systems, but
might not be for more than two (Win2K, WinXP & Vista, for example).

As you've noted in the Subject line, there are different versions of NTLDR
and NTDETECT.COM. MS has used the same names for the successive generations
of these files. As you can see, each version has a different date and a
different size. The later versions are larger, because they include
instructions for how to handle the earlier versions of Windows. When we run
WinXP Setup, its version of those files knows how to handle an existing
installation of Win9x or Win2K if it finds one (or more) already installed
on the hard drive. But when we run Win2K Setup, it knows nothing at all
about WinXP, which didn't appear until nearly 2 years after the Win2K
version of NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM were written.

I'm sure you've also noticed that there is only a single copy of those two
NT* files in the Root of the System Partition. In other words, we don't
have both a Win2K version and a WinXP version installed. The one WinXP
version handles the opening menu from which we choose which one to run this
session. Once we choose (or default), NTLDR uses Boot.ini and NTDETECT.COM
to find our chosen system and load it, no matter if it is on the first
partition of the first HD or the 3rd partition on the 33rd (?) HD.

My guess is that your Boot.ini is pointing to the wrong
rdisk(#)partition(#). Or perhaps that it is looking for the \WinNT folder
(the default for Win2K) instead of \Windows (the default for WinXP) - or
vice versa. There should be only a single C:\Boot.ini, and it should point
to ALL your Windows installations, no matter where those are on your HDs.
If I understand your system correctly, the line for Win2K should be
....rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT; WinXP should be at
....rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows. (HDs are numbered starting with zero and
partition numbers start with 1 on each HD.) And be sure you are using the
WinXP x64 versions of those NT* files; they are dated 3/25/2005 and are
295,536 and 47,772 bytes long.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Mail in Vista Ultimate x64)

"dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I have a dual boot system that I am trying to get up and running, but I
> cannot get dual boot to work without constantly changing the versions of
> ntldr and dtdetect.com in c:\ . I have 33 scsi drives, and the first drive
> is
> divided into 3 volumes, c, f, and z. C and F are NTFS, Z is fat32
> (eventually
> I may want to load an old operating system there, but for now it is
> basically
> unused or for data storage.
> Anyway, win2k is up and running on F, in f:\winnt It has been working for
> almost 2 years. When I first set up the system, I tried dual boot with xp
> x64, but it stopped working after a while, and I just used it as a win2k
> machine. Now, I have reloaded xp x64 into c:\windows. I have dual boot set
> up, and it looks correct, but, if the version of ntldr and ntdetect in c:\
> are the newer ones supplied with xp x64, then xp x64 boots up fine, but I
> get
> an error message "winnt\system32\config\system missing or corrupt" if I
> try
> to boot win2k. If I replace the ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ with the
> older
> versions from win2k sp4, then win2k boots up fine, but I get an error
> about a
> missing or corrupt ntoskrnl.exe file, and I cannot boot xp x64.
>
> Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. This is driving me nuts!!!


 
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mikeyhsd
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
have you considered using virtualization.
ms just released VPC2007.

VM Ware works great and provides a greater range of functionality including device support.

(E-Mail Removed)@sport.rr.com

"dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
I have a dual boot system that I am trying to get up and running, but I
cannot get dual boot to work without constantly changing the versions of
ntldr and dtdetect.com in c:\ . I have 33 scsi drives, and the first drive is
divided into 3 volumes, c, f, and z. C and F are NTFS, Z is fat32 (eventually
I may want to load an old operating system there, but for now it is basically
unused or for data storage.
Anyway, win2k is up and running on F, in f:\winnt It has been working for
almost 2 years. When I first set up the system, I tried dual boot with xp
x64, but it stopped working after a while, and I just used it as a win2k
machine. Now, I have reloaded xp x64 into c:\windows. I have dual boot set
up, and it looks correct, but, if the version of ntldr and ntdetect in c:\
are the newer ones supplied with xp x64, then xp x64 boots up fine, but I get
an error message "winnt\system32\config\system missing or corrupt" if I try
to boot win2k. If I replace the ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ with the older
versions from win2k sp4, then win2k boots up fine, but I get an error about a
missing or corrupt ntoskrnl.exe file, and I cannot boot xp x64.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. This is driving me nuts!!!

 
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=?Utf-8?B?ZGFrb3RhMDI=?=
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
No, I am not changing the boot.ini. It is the same all of the time.

"John Barnes" wrote:

> are you changing your boot.ini also.
>
> "dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >I have a dual boot system that I am trying to get up and running, but I
> > cannot get dual boot to work without constantly changing the versions of
> > ntldr and dtdetect.com in c:\ . I have 33 scsi drives, and the first drive
> > is
> > divided into 3 volumes, c, f, and z. C and F are NTFS, Z is fat32
> > (eventually
> > I may want to load an old operating system there, but for now it is
> > basically
> > unused or for data storage.
> > Anyway, win2k is up and running on F, in f:\winnt It has been working for
> > almost 2 years. When I first set up the system, I tried dual boot with xp
> > x64, but it stopped working after a while, and I just used it as a win2k
> > machine. Now, I have reloaded xp x64 into c:\windows. I have dual boot set
> > up, and it looks correct, but, if the version of ntldr and ntdetect in c:\
> > are the newer ones supplied with xp x64, then xp x64 boots up fine, but I
> > get
> > an error message "winnt\system32\config\system missing or corrupt" if I
> > try
> > to boot win2k. If I replace the ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ with the
> > older
> > versions from win2k sp4, then win2k boots up fine, but I get an error
> > about a
> > missing or corrupt ntoskrnl.exe file, and I cannot boot xp x64.
> >
> > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. This is driving me nuts!!!
> >

>
>

 
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=?Utf-8?B?ZGFrb3RhMDI=?=
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
Sorry about that 33. It is really 3. Sometimes my keyboard puts in an extra
character.

I am using the same boot.ini all of the time, and it is correct. The only
change that I have to make is to change the version of ntldr and ntdetect.com
in c:\, which is the boot drive. (win2k is in f:\winnt, and f: is the system
drive. If I go into recovery console, it thinks winxp x64 is in c:\windows
and win2k is in I:\winnt . I don't know if this is making a difference. I
doubt it. But, the version of my "new" ntldr and ntdetect.com that have to be
in c:\ to get winxp x64 to boot are the size that you mention, but the date
is 4/4/06. I don't know where they came from. Either the disk that was
provided for xp x64 or a later service pack that was installed after I
installed xp x64. The version of ntldr and ntdetect.com that I have to use to
get win2k to run are smaller and have a 2002 date. But, and this is the
point, if I put the newer versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\, I can
only boot xp x64. I get an error "winnt\system32\config\system missing or
corrupt." If I put the older versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\
(leaving boot.ini the same), then I can boot win2k, but I get an error about
NTOSKRL being bad when I try to boot xp x64.



"R. C. White, MVP" wrote:

> Hi, Dakota.
>
> 33 SCSI drives? Really? Wow!
>
> Microsoft's dual-boot setup works very well. I've been using it for nearly
> 10 years, ever since Win95/NT4. It works well, that is, IF you do it in the
> proper sequence. We usually hear that we must "install the oldest system
> first". It really means to "install the newest system last". That sounds
> like the same thing - and it is if you are installing only two systems, but
> might not be for more than two (Win2K, WinXP & Vista, for example).
>
> As you've noted in the Subject line, there are different versions of NTLDR
> and NTDETECT.COM. MS has used the same names for the successive generations
> of these files. As you can see, each version has a different date and a
> different size. The later versions are larger, because they include
> instructions for how to handle the earlier versions of Windows. When we run
> WinXP Setup, its version of those files knows how to handle an existing
> installation of Win9x or Win2K if it finds one (or more) already installed
> on the hard drive. But when we run Win2K Setup, it knows nothing at all
> about WinXP, which didn't appear until nearly 2 years after the Win2K
> version of NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM were written.
>
> I'm sure you've also noticed that there is only a single copy of those two
> NT* files in the Root of the System Partition. In other words, we don't
> have both a Win2K version and a WinXP version installed. The one WinXP
> version handles the opening menu from which we choose which one to run this
> session. Once we choose (or default), NTLDR uses Boot.ini and NTDETECT.COM
> to find our chosen system and load it, no matter if it is on the first
> partition of the first HD or the 3rd partition on the 33rd (?) HD.
>
> My guess is that your Boot.ini is pointing to the wrong
> rdisk(#)partition(#). Or perhaps that it is looking for the \WinNT folder
> (the default for Win2K) instead of \Windows (the default for WinXP) - or
> vice versa. There should be only a single C:\Boot.ini, and it should point
> to ALL your Windows installations, no matter where those are on your HDs.
> If I understand your system correctly, the line for Win2K should be
> ...rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT; WinXP should be at
> ...rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows. (HDs are numbered starting with zero and
> partition numbers start with 1 on each HD.) And be sure you are using the
> WinXP x64 versions of those NT* files; they are dated 3/25/2005 and are
> 295,536 and 47,772 bytes long.
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
> (E-Mail Removed)
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> (Running Windows Mail in Vista Ultimate x64)
>
> "dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >I have a dual boot system that I am trying to get up and running, but I
> > cannot get dual boot to work without constantly changing the versions of
> > ntldr and dtdetect.com in c:\ . I have 33 scsi drives, and the first drive
> > is
> > divided into 3 volumes, c, f, and z. C and F are NTFS, Z is fat32
> > (eventually
> > I may want to load an old operating system there, but for now it is
> > basically
> > unused or for data storage.
> > Anyway, win2k is up and running on F, in f:\winnt It has been working for
> > almost 2 years. When I first set up the system, I tried dual boot with xp
> > x64, but it stopped working after a while, and I just used it as a win2k
> > machine. Now, I have reloaded xp x64 into c:\windows. I have dual boot set
> > up, and it looks correct, but, if the version of ntldr and ntdetect in c:\
> > are the newer ones supplied with xp x64, then xp x64 boots up fine, but I
> > get
> > an error message "winnt\system32\config\system missing or corrupt" if I
> > try
> > to boot win2k. If I replace the ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ with the
> > older
> > versions from win2k sp4, then win2k boots up fine, but I get an error
> > about a
> > missing or corrupt ntoskrnl.exe file, and I cannot boot xp x64.
> >
> > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. This is driving me nuts!!!

>

 
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R. C. White, MVP
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
Hi, Dakota.

> in c:\, which is the boot drive. (win2k is in f:\winnt, and f: is the
> system
> drive.


LOTS of people get confused by these counter-intuitive terms! :>( We BOOT
from the System Partition (typically C:, but not always) and keep the
operating SYSTEM files in the Boot Volume - which can be C: or any other
primary partition or logical drive in the computer. See this KB article:
Definition of System Partition and Boot Partition
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/

(I have some quibbles with this KB article. The System Partition must
always be a primary partition, but the Boot Folder can be in a logical drive
in an extended partition, so the Boot Volume does not necessarily have to be
a "partition"; the term "boot partition" should be "boot volume".)

In your case, C: is the System Partition, where NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and
Boot.ini reside. You may have other copies of these files scattered around
your drives, but only those in the Root of the System Partition (C:\) count.
In the very early stages of the boot process, when the system needs these
files, it has not yet learned to use folders, or even other partitions or
drives, so these files must be where the BIOS tells the system to look: in
the Root of the Active primary partition on the drive designated in the BIOS
as the boot device.

F: is the Boot Volume for your Win2K system; F:\WinNT is its Boot Folder.
C: is the Boot Volume for your WinXP x64; C:\Windows is its Boot Folder. C:
is also the System Partition for the whole computer; both Win2K and WinXP
start here and branch to where C:\Boot.ini points. If C:\NTLDR and
C:\NTDETECT.COM are the WinXP x64 versions, and if C:\Boot.ini has the
proper contents, and if C: is the Active partition on your
currently-designated boot device, then you should see the operating system
menu each time you reboot. This menu should offer you two choices: Win2K
and WinXP x64. The actual text of the choices may vary; these come from the
labels within quotation marks in Boot.ini. These texts are only for the
benefit of us humans; the computer relies on the
rdisk(#)partition(#)\Windows to find the proper ntoskrnl and load the chosen
operating system. NTLDR completely ignores drive letters at this point.

When properly installed, you should not have to swap NTLDR versions. The
latest (WinXP x64) versions should handle all prior versions of Windows from
Win95 through WinXP x86, as well as WinXP x64. Your error messages about
the config\system file and ntoskrnl being bad or missing are obviously
wrong, because you can boot when you put in the proper locations. It sounds
like your C:\boot.ini file is pointing to the wrong location for your Win2K
boot folder. As you've described your system, boot.ini should point to the
\WinNT folder on the second partition on the first HD:
rdisk(0)partition(2)\WinNT. And, for WinXP, it should point to the \Windows
folder on the first partition on the same HD: rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(E-Mail Removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Mail in Vista Ultimate x64)

"dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Sorry about that 33. It is really 3. Sometimes my keyboard puts in an
> extra
> character.
>
> I am using the same boot.ini all of the time, and it is correct. The only
> change that I have to make is to change the version of ntldr and
> ntdetect.com
> in c:\, which is the boot drive. (win2k is in f:\winnt, and f: is the
> system
> drive. If I go into recovery console, it thinks winxp x64 is in c:\windows
> and win2k is in I:\winnt . I don't know if this is making a difference. I
> doubt it. But, the version of my "new" ntldr and ntdetect.com that have to
> be
> in c:\ to get winxp x64 to boot are the size that you mention, but the
> date
> is 4/4/06. I don't know where they came from. Either the disk that was
> provided for xp x64 or a later service pack that was installed after I
> installed xp x64. The version of ntldr and ntdetect.com that I have to use
> to
> get win2k to run are smaller and have a 2002 date. But, and this is the
> point, if I put the newer versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\, I can
> only boot xp x64. I get an error "winnt\system32\config\system missing or
> corrupt." If I put the older versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\
> (leaving boot.ini the same), then I can boot win2k, but I get an error
> about
> NTOSKRL being bad when I try to boot xp x64.
>
>
>
> "R. C. White, MVP" wrote:
>
>> Hi, Dakota.
>>
>> 33 SCSI drives? Really? Wow!
>>
>> Microsoft's dual-boot setup works very well. I've been using it for
>> nearly
>> 10 years, ever since Win95/NT4. It works well, that is, IF you do it in
>> the
>> proper sequence. We usually hear that we must "install the oldest system
>> first". It really means to "install the newest system last". That
>> sounds
>> like the same thing - and it is if you are installing only two systems,
>> but
>> might not be for more than two (Win2K, WinXP & Vista, for example).
>>
>> As you've noted in the Subject line, there are different versions of
>> NTLDR
>> and NTDETECT.COM. MS has used the same names for the successive
>> generations
>> of these files. As you can see, each version has a different date and a
>> different size. The later versions are larger, because they include
>> instructions for how to handle the earlier versions of Windows. When we
>> run
>> WinXP Setup, its version of those files knows how to handle an existing
>> installation of Win9x or Win2K if it finds one (or more) already
>> installed
>> on the hard drive. But when we run Win2K Setup, it knows nothing at all
>> about WinXP, which didn't appear until nearly 2 years after the Win2K
>> version of NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM were written.
>>
>> I'm sure you've also noticed that there is only a single copy of those
>> two
>> NT* files in the Root of the System Partition. In other words, we don't
>> have both a Win2K version and a WinXP version installed. The one WinXP
>> version handles the opening menu from which we choose which one to run
>> this
>> session. Once we choose (or default), NTLDR uses Boot.ini and
>> NTDETECT.COM
>> to find our chosen system and load it, no matter if it is on the first
>> partition of the first HD or the 3rd partition on the 33rd (?) HD.
>>
>> My guess is that your Boot.ini is pointing to the wrong
>> rdisk(#)partition(#). Or perhaps that it is looking for the \WinNT
>> folder
>> (the default for Win2K) instead of \Windows (the default for WinXP) - or
>> vice versa. There should be only a single C:\Boot.ini, and it should
>> point
>> to ALL your Windows installations, no matter where those are on your HDs.
>> If I understand your system correctly, the line for Win2K should be
>> ...rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT; WinXP should be at
>> ...rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows. (HDs are numbered starting with zero
>> and
>> partition numbers start with 1 on each HD.) And be sure you are using
>> the
>> WinXP x64 versions of those NT* files; they are dated 3/25/2005 and are
>> 295,536 and 47,772 bytes long.
>>
>> RC
>>
>> "dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >I have a dual boot system that I am trying to get up and running, but I
>> > cannot get dual boot to work without constantly changing the versions
>> > of
>> > ntldr and dtdetect.com in c:\ . I have 33 scsi drives, and the first
>> > drive
>> > is
>> > divided into 3 volumes, c, f, and z. C and F are NTFS, Z is fat32
>> > (eventually
>> > I may want to load an old operating system there, but for now it is
>> > basically
>> > unused or for data storage.
>> > Anyway, win2k is up and running on F, in f:\winnt It has been working
>> > for
>> > almost 2 years. When I first set up the system, I tried dual boot with
>> > xp
>> > x64, but it stopped working after a while, and I just used it as a
>> > win2k
>> > machine. Now, I have reloaded xp x64 into c:\windows. I have dual boot
>> > set
>> > up, and it looks correct, but, if the version of ntldr and ntdetect in
>> > c:\
>> > are the newer ones supplied with xp x64, then xp x64 boots up fine, but
>> > I
>> > get
>> > an error message "winnt\system32\config\system missing or corrupt" if
>> > I
>> > try
>> > to boot win2k. If I replace the ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ with the
>> > older
>> > versions from win2k sp4, then win2k boots up fine, but I get an error
>> > about a
>> > missing or corrupt ntoskrnl.exe file, and I cannot boot xp x64.
>> >
>> > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. This is driving me
>> > nuts!!!


 
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=?Utf-8?B?ZGFrb3RhMDI=?=
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
I understand all of that, and that is why I am totally confused as to why my
system does not work correctly. I do not change boot.ini, and it is in c:\
When I boot up, I do get two operating system choices, but only one works,
depending on the version of ntldr and ntdetect.com that I have in c:\ Here is
a copy of my boot.ini file, which looks correct to me:
[boot loader]
;timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT="Microso ft Windows 2000
Professional" /fastdetect /noguiboot
;multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Wind ows XP Professional x64
Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /noguiboot


I would attach a picture of my drive structure from computer management, but
I don't believe there is any way to do attachments. If you want to see it,
however, I can post it to a web site where it can be viewed, if you want.
But, with the computer booted up in win2k, when I go and look at computer
management, it says the following:
my first drive is partitioned into 3 volumes. The first, c:, is the primary
partition, and it is marked as system. It contains xp x64 in c:\windows .
Then there is an extended partition, and it contains two logical partitions,
f and z. f is marked as boot. and win2k is in c:\winnt . c and f are ntfs. z
is fat 32. I also see several partitions marked as active, but they are on
other physical drives. There are no partitions marked as active on the first
drive, which is a scsi drive.

FWIW, if I recall correctly, when I boot up into winxp x64, f is marked as
the system partition and c is marked as the boot partition, but that is just
from memory. If it matters, I can go back and check that again by changing
the versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ and rebooting and selecting xp
x64 as the operating system. As I said, if I don't change those files, and
try to boot xp x64, I get an error.

I was going to post a picture of the computer management screen, but there
is no way to upload a jpg, or at least I don't think there is. If it matters,
I can post it on a web site.

This has me totally baffled, especially since I have operated many dual boot
systems over the years, although they were always a flavor of windows and a
flavor of linux, never two versions of windows, although there was a time
(very short) when this computer did properly dual boot win2k and winxp x64,
but that was over 18 months ago when I first set it up with a beta version of
xp x64.




"R. C. White, MVP" wrote:

> Hi, Dakota.
>
> > in c:\, which is the boot drive. (win2k is in f:\winnt, and f: is the
> > system
> > drive.

>
> LOTS of people get confused by these counter-intuitive terms! :>( We BOOT
> from the System Partition (typically C:, but not always) and keep the
> operating SYSTEM files in the Boot Volume - which can be C: or any other
> primary partition or logical drive in the computer. See this KB article:
> Definition of System Partition and Boot Partition
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/
>
> (I have some quibbles with this KB article. The System Partition must
> always be a primary partition, but the Boot Folder can be in a logical drive
> in an extended partition, so the Boot Volume does not necessarily have to be
> a "partition"; the term "boot partition" should be "boot volume".)
>
> In your case, C: is the System Partition, where NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and
> Boot.ini reside. You may have other copies of these files scattered around
> your drives, but only those in the Root of the System Partition (C:\) count.
> In the very early stages of the boot process, when the system needs these
> files, it has not yet learned to use folders, or even other partitions or
> drives, so these files must be where the BIOS tells the system to look: in
> the Root of the Active primary partition on the drive designated in the BIOS
> as the boot device.
>
> F: is the Boot Volume for your Win2K system; F:\WinNT is its Boot Folder.
> C: is the Boot Volume for your WinXP x64; C:\Windows is its Boot Folder. C:
> is also the System Partition for the whole computer; both Win2K and WinXP
> start here and branch to where C:\Boot.ini points. If C:\NTLDR and
> C:\NTDETECT.COM are the WinXP x64 versions, and if C:\Boot.ini has the
> proper contents, and if C: is the Active partition on your
> currently-designated boot device, then you should see the operating system
> menu each time you reboot. This menu should offer you two choices: Win2K
> and WinXP x64. The actual text of the choices may vary; these come from the
> labels within quotation marks in Boot.ini. These texts are only for the
> benefit of us humans; the computer relies on the
> rdisk(#)partition(#)\Windows to find the proper ntoskrnl and load the chosen
> operating system. NTLDR completely ignores drive letters at this point.
>
> When properly installed, you should not have to swap NTLDR versions. The
> latest (WinXP x64) versions should handle all prior versions of Windows from
> Win95 through WinXP x86, as well as WinXP x64. Your error messages about
> the config\system file and ntoskrnl being bad or missing are obviously
> wrong, because you can boot when you put in the proper locations. It sounds
> like your C:\boot.ini file is pointing to the wrong location for your Win2K
> boot folder. As you've described your system, boot.ini should point to the
> \WinNT folder on the second partition on the first HD:
> rdisk(0)partition(2)\WinNT. And, for WinXP, it should point to the \Windows
> folder on the first partition on the same HD: rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows.
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
> (E-Mail Removed)
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> (Running Windows Mail in Vista Ultimate x64)
>
> "dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Sorry about that 33. It is really 3. Sometimes my keyboard puts in an
> > extra
> > character.
> >
> > I am using the same boot.ini all of the time, and it is correct. The only
> > change that I have to make is to change the version of ntldr and
> > ntdetect.com
> > in c:\, which is the boot drive. (win2k is in f:\winnt, and f: is the
> > system
> > drive. If I go into recovery console, it thinks winxp x64 is in c:\windows
> > and win2k is in I:\winnt . I don't know if this is making a difference. I
> > doubt it. But, the version of my "new" ntldr and ntdetect.com that have to
> > be
> > in c:\ to get winxp x64 to boot are the size that you mention, but the
> > date
> > is 4/4/06. I don't know where they came from. Either the disk that was
> > provided for xp x64 or a later service pack that was installed after I
> > installed xp x64. The version of ntldr and ntdetect.com that I have to use
> > to
> > get win2k to run are smaller and have a 2002 date. But, and this is the
> > point, if I put the newer versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\, I can
> > only boot xp x64. I get an error "winnt\system32\config\system missing or
> > corrupt." If I put the older versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\
> > (leaving boot.ini the same), then I can boot win2k, but I get an error
> > about
> > NTOSKRL being bad when I try to boot xp x64.
> >
> >
> >
> > "R. C. White, MVP" wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, Dakota.
> >>
> >> 33 SCSI drives? Really? Wow!
> >>
> >> Microsoft's dual-boot setup works very well. I've been using it for
> >> nearly
> >> 10 years, ever since Win95/NT4. It works well, that is, IF you do it in
> >> the
> >> proper sequence. We usually hear that we must "install the oldest system
> >> first". It really means to "install the newest system last". That
> >> sounds
> >> like the same thing - and it is if you are installing only two systems,
> >> but
> >> might not be for more than two (Win2K, WinXP & Vista, for example).
> >>
> >> As you've noted in the Subject line, there are different versions of
> >> NTLDR
> >> and NTDETECT.COM. MS has used the same names for the successive
> >> generations
> >> of these files. As you can see, each version has a different date and a
> >> different size. The later versions are larger, because they include
> >> instructions for how to handle the earlier versions of Windows. When we
> >> run
> >> WinXP Setup, its version of those files knows how to handle an existing
> >> installation of Win9x or Win2K if it finds one (or more) already
> >> installed
> >> on the hard drive. But when we run Win2K Setup, it knows nothing at all
> >> about WinXP, which didn't appear until nearly 2 years after the Win2K
> >> version of NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM were written.
> >>
> >> I'm sure you've also noticed that there is only a single copy of those
> >> two
> >> NT* files in the Root of the System Partition. In other words, we don't
> >> have both a Win2K version and a WinXP version installed. The one WinXP
> >> version handles the opening menu from which we choose which one to run
> >> this
> >> session. Once we choose (or default), NTLDR uses Boot.ini and
> >> NTDETECT.COM
> >> to find our chosen system and load it, no matter if it is on the first
> >> partition of the first HD or the 3rd partition on the 33rd (?) HD.
> >>
> >> My guess is that your Boot.ini is pointing to the wrong
> >> rdisk(#)partition(#). Or perhaps that it is looking for the \WinNT
> >> folder
> >> (the default for Win2K) instead of \Windows (the default for WinXP) - or
> >> vice versa. There should be only a single C:\Boot.ini, and it should
> >> point
> >> to ALL your Windows installations, no matter where those are on your HDs.
> >> If I understand your system correctly, the line for Win2K should be
> >> ...rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT; WinXP should be at
> >> ...rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows. (HDs are numbered starting with zero
> >> and
> >> partition numbers start with 1 on each HD.) And be sure you are using
> >> the
> >> WinXP x64 versions of those NT* files; they are dated 3/25/2005 and are
> >> 295,536 and 47,772 bytes long.
> >>
> >> RC
> >>
> >> "dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> >I have a dual boot system that I am trying to get up and running, but I
> >> > cannot get dual boot to work without constantly changing the versions
> >> > of
> >> > ntldr and dtdetect.com in c:\ . I have 33 scsi drives, and the first
> >> > drive
> >> > is
> >> > divided into 3 volumes, c, f, and z. C and F are NTFS, Z is fat32
> >> > (eventually
> >> > I may want to load an old operating system there, but for now it is
> >> > basically
> >> > unused or for data storage.
> >> > Anyway, win2k is up and running on F, in f:\winnt It has been working
> >> > for
> >> > almost 2 years. When I first set up the system, I tried dual boot with
> >> > xp
> >> > x64, but it stopped working after a while, and I just used it as a
> >> > win2k
> >> > machine. Now, I have reloaded xp x64 into c:\windows. I have dual boot
> >> > set
> >> > up, and it looks correct, but, if the version of ntldr and ntdetect in
> >> > c:\
> >> > are the newer ones supplied with xp x64, then xp x64 boots up fine, but
> >> > I
> >> > get
> >> > an error message "winnt\system32\config\system missing or corrupt" if
> >> > I
> >> > try
> >> > to boot win2k. If I replace the ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ with the
> >> > older
> >> > versions from win2k sp4, then win2k boots up fine, but I get an error
> >> > about a
> >> > missing or corrupt ntoskrnl.exe file, and I cannot boot xp x64.
> >> >
> >> > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. This is driving me
> >> > nuts!!!

>

 
Reply With Quote
 
R. C. White, MVP
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-21-2007
Hi, Dakota.

Sorry if it seemed I was "talking down" to you. It's not always easy to
tell how much experience someone has from just newsgroup posts.

SHORT VERSION:

Please change to the WinXP versions of NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM - permanently.
Write down the Status labels for both C: and F:. Then reboot, without
reverting to the old versions of those two files, and choose Win2K from the
menu. Win2K should boot properly. If it doesn't, we've isolated the
problem and we can fix it.


Now for the long-winded version...

Your Boot.ini looks fine to me.

Disk Management is one of my favorite utilities, and it has gotten better
with later revisions. In Vista, it can shrink and extend partitions and do
some other tricks that it could not in earlier versions. Also, it can show
multiple statuses for a single volume. For example, if Win2K and WinXP
could do this, your Drive C: would be marked "Healthy (System, Boot, Active,
Page File, Crash Dump, Primary Partition)" when you are in WinXP. And when
you are booted into Win2K, Drive C: would still be marked "Healthy (System,
Active, Primary Partition)", but not (Boot); Drive F: would be marked
"Healthy (Boot, Logical Drive)". In other words, the System Partition is
always marked (System), but the (Boot) designation depends on which OS is
running at the time. And many drives have several different statuses, even
if only one can be shown in Win2K.

> There are no partitions marked as active on the first
> drive, which is a scsi drive.


If you are booting from that SCSI drive, then there MUST be an Active
primary partition on it, and that must be the System Partition. Since
Win2K's Disk Management can't show multiple status indicators, you see that
partition marked only as System, but it also is Active.

> my first drive is partitioned into 3 volumes.


OK. This is the SCSI drive and is designated in the BIOS as the boot
device, right?

> The first, c:, is the primary
> partition, and it is marked as system.


Correct. It is marked as (System) in both Win2K and WinXP, right?

> It contains xp x64 in c:\windows .


When you are booted into WinXP, this partition should be marked both
(System) and (Boot). But, since DM can show only one label, it is marked
(System) - and NO volume is marked (Boot), right?

> Then there is an extended partition, and it contains two logical
> partitions,
> f and z.


OK. Sounds like my system. ;^}

> f is marked as boot.


HERE is where the fun starts. F: should be marked (Boot) WHEN YOU ARE
BOOTED INTO WIN2K. When you are booted into WinXP, F: should be "just
another volume" so far as WinXP is concerned. It should NOT be marked
(Boot) when you are in WinXP.

> and win2k is in c:\winnt .


I think you mean that Win2K is in F:\WinNT. This F: is the second volume on
the first HD.

> c and f are ntfs. z
> is fat 32.


OK. Let's don't confuse operating systems (Win2K and WinXP) with file
systems (FAT32 and NTFS). Either OS can work just fine with either file
system, so long as we respect Win2K's volume size limitations.

> I also see several partitions marked as active, but they are on
> other physical drives.


That's fine. Each HD can have up to 4 primary partitions, of which any one
at a time on each HD may be marked active.

> There are no partitions marked as active on the first
> drive, which is a scsi drive.


Now we're back to the start: the primary partition on the boot device MUST
be set Active, even though DM might not be able to show that status in
addition to the (System) status.


> FWIW, if I recall correctly, when I boot up into winxp x64, f is marked as
> the system partition and c is marked as the boot partition, but that is
> just
> from memory. If it matters, I can go back and check that again by changing
> the versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ and rebooting and selecting
> xp
> x64 as the operating system. As I said, if I don't change those files, and
> try to boot xp x64, I get an error.


Now we are down to the nitty-gritty. Your Drive F: should NEVER be marked
as Active or System, because it is a logical drive, not a primary partition.
I suspect that the counterintuitive System/Boot terminology is confusing
things here. But F: should also not be marked as anything special when you
are in WinXP. You'd better go back and recheck those labels in WinXP.

> This has me totally baffled, especially since I have operated many dual
> boot
> systems over the years, although they were always a flavor of windows and
> a
> flavor of linux, never two versions of windows, although there was a time


My experience was the opposite: always multiple Windows installations,
never involving Linux or other flavors. So Microsoft's "Y" pattern - start
in the System Partition then branch to one of several Boot Volumes - seems
perfectly natural to me.


You should be able to boot into Win2K by starting up with the WinXP x64
versions of NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM. If you can't, then you need to figure
out why not.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(E-Mail Removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Mail in Vista Ultimate x64)


"dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I understand all of that, and that is why I am totally confused as to why
>my
> system does not work correctly. I do not change boot.ini, and it is in c:\
> When I boot up, I do get two operating system choices, but only one works,
> depending on the version of ntldr and ntdetect.com that I have in c:\ Here
> is
> a copy of my boot.ini file, which looks correct to me:
> [boot loader]
> ;timeout=30
> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT
> [operating systems]
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT="Microso ft Windows 2000
> Professional" /fastdetect /noguiboot
> ;multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Wind ows XP Professional x64
> Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /noguiboot
>
>
> I would attach a picture of my drive structure from computer management,
> but
> I don't believe there is any way to do attachments. If you want to see it,
> however, I can post it to a web site where it can be viewed, if you want.
> But, with the computer booted up in win2k, when I go and look at computer
> management, it says the following:
> my first drive is partitioned into 3 volumes. The first, c:, is the
> primary
> partition, and it is marked as system. It contains xp x64 in c:\windows .
> Then there is an extended partition, and it contains two logical
> partitions,
> f and z. f is marked as boot. and win2k is in c:\winnt . c and f are ntfs.
> z
> is fat 32. I also see several partitions marked as active, but they are on
> other physical drives. There are no partitions marked as active on the
> first
> drive, which is a scsi drive.
>
> FWIW, if I recall correctly, when I boot up into winxp x64, f is marked as
> the system partition and c is marked as the boot partition, but that is
> just
> from memory. If it matters, I can go back and check that again by changing
> the versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ and rebooting and selecting
> xp
> x64 as the operating system. As I said, if I don't change those files, and
> try to boot xp x64, I get an error.
>
> I was going to post a picture of the computer management screen, but there
> is no way to upload a jpg, or at least I don't think there is. If it
> matters,
> I can post it on a web site.
>
> This has me totally baffled, especially since I have operated many dual
> boot
> systems over the years, although they were always a flavor of windows and
> a
> flavor of linux, never two versions of windows, although there was a time
> (very short) when this computer did properly dual boot win2k and winxp
> x64,
> but that was over 18 months ago when I first set it up with a beta version
> of
> xp x64.
>
>
>
>
> "R. C. White, MVP" wrote:
>
>> Hi, Dakota.
>>
>> > in c:\, which is the boot drive. (win2k is in f:\winnt, and f: is the
>> > system
>> > drive.

>>
>> LOTS of people get confused by these counter-intuitive terms! :>( We
>> BOOT
>> from the System Partition (typically C:, but not always) and keep the
>> operating SYSTEM files in the Boot Volume - which can be C: or any other
>> primary partition or logical drive in the computer. See this KB article:
>> Definition of System Partition and Boot Partition
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/
>>
>> (I have some quibbles with this KB article. The System Partition must
>> always be a primary partition, but the Boot Folder can be in a logical
>> drive
>> in an extended partition, so the Boot Volume does not necessarily have to
>> be
>> a "partition"; the term "boot partition" should be "boot volume".)
>>
>> In your case, C: is the System Partition, where NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and
>> Boot.ini reside. You may have other copies of these files scattered
>> around
>> your drives, but only those in the Root of the System Partition (C:\)
>> count.
>> In the very early stages of the boot process, when the system needs these
>> files, it has not yet learned to use folders, or even other partitions or
>> drives, so these files must be where the BIOS tells the system to look:
>> in
>> the Root of the Active primary partition on the drive designated in the
>> BIOS
>> as the boot device.
>>
>> F: is the Boot Volume for your Win2K system; F:\WinNT is its Boot Folder.
>> C: is the Boot Volume for your WinXP x64; C:\Windows is its Boot Folder.
>> C:
>> is also the System Partition for the whole computer; both Win2K and WinXP
>> start here and branch to where C:\Boot.ini points. If C:\NTLDR and
>> C:\NTDETECT.COM are the WinXP x64 versions, and if C:\Boot.ini has the
>> proper contents, and if C: is the Active partition on your
>> currently-designated boot device, then you should see the operating
>> system
>> menu each time you reboot. This menu should offer you two choices:
>> Win2K
>> and WinXP x64. The actual text of the choices may vary; these come from
>> the
>> labels within quotation marks in Boot.ini. These texts are only for the
>> benefit of us humans; the computer relies on the
>> rdisk(#)partition(#)\Windows to find the proper ntoskrnl and load the
>> chosen
>> operating system. NTLDR completely ignores drive letters at this point.
>>
>> When properly installed, you should not have to swap NTLDR versions. The
>> latest (WinXP x64) versions should handle all prior versions of Windows
>> from
>> Win95 through WinXP x86, as well as WinXP x64. Your error messages about
>> the config\system file and ntoskrnl being bad or missing are obviously
>> wrong, because you can boot when you put in the proper locations. It
>> sounds
>> like your C:\boot.ini file is pointing to the wrong location for your
>> Win2K
>> boot folder. As you've described your system, boot.ini should point to
>> the
>> \WinNT folder on the second partition on the first HD:
>> rdisk(0)partition(2)\WinNT. And, for WinXP, it should point to the
>> \Windows
>> folder on the first partition on the same HD:
>> rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows.
>>
>> RC
>> --
>> R. C. White, CPA
>> San Marcos, TX
>> (E-Mail Removed)
>> Microsoft Windows MVP
>> (Running Windows Mail in Vista Ultimate x64)
>>
>> "dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > Sorry about that 33. It is really 3. Sometimes my keyboard puts in an
>> > extra
>> > character.
>> >
>> > I am using the same boot.ini all of the time, and it is correct. The
>> > only
>> > change that I have to make is to change the version of ntldr and
>> > ntdetect.com
>> > in c:\, which is the boot drive. (win2k is in f:\winnt, and f: is the
>> > system
>> > drive. If I go into recovery console, it thinks winxp x64 is in
>> > c:\windows
>> > and win2k is in I:\winnt . I don't know if this is making a difference.
>> > I
>> > doubt it. But, the version of my "new" ntldr and ntdetect.com that have
>> > to
>> > be
>> > in c:\ to get winxp x64 to boot are the size that you mention, but the
>> > date
>> > is 4/4/06. I don't know where they came from. Either the disk that was
>> > provided for xp x64 or a later service pack that was installed after I
>> > installed xp x64. The version of ntldr and ntdetect.com that I have to
>> > use
>> > to
>> > get win2k to run are smaller and have a 2002 date. But, and this is the
>> > point, if I put the newer versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\, I
>> > can
>> > only boot xp x64. I get an error "winnt\system32\config\system missing
>> > or
>> > corrupt." If I put the older versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\
>> > (leaving boot.ini the same), then I can boot win2k, but I get an error
>> > about
>> > NTOSKRL being bad when I try to boot xp x64.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "R. C. White, MVP" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi, Dakota.
>> >>
>> >> 33 SCSI drives? Really? Wow!
>> >>
>> >> Microsoft's dual-boot setup works very well. I've been using it for
>> >> nearly
>> >> 10 years, ever since Win95/NT4. It works well, that is, IF you do it
>> >> in
>> >> the
>> >> proper sequence. We usually hear that we must "install the oldest
>> >> system
>> >> first". It really means to "install the newest system last". That
>> >> sounds
>> >> like the same thing - and it is if you are installing only two
>> >> systems,
>> >> but
>> >> might not be for more than two (Win2K, WinXP & Vista, for example).
>> >>
>> >> As you've noted in the Subject line, there are different versions of
>> >> NTLDR
>> >> and NTDETECT.COM. MS has used the same names for the successive
>> >> generations
>> >> of these files. As you can see, each version has a different date and
>> >> a
>> >> different size. The later versions are larger, because they include
>> >> instructions for how to handle the earlier versions of Windows. When
>> >> we
>> >> run
>> >> WinXP Setup, its version of those files knows how to handle an
>> >> existing
>> >> installation of Win9x or Win2K if it finds one (or more) already
>> >> installed
>> >> on the hard drive. But when we run Win2K Setup, it knows nothing at
>> >> all
>> >> about WinXP, which didn't appear until nearly 2 years after the Win2K
>> >> version of NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM were written.
>> >>
>> >> I'm sure you've also noticed that there is only a single copy of those
>> >> two
>> >> NT* files in the Root of the System Partition. In other words, we
>> >> don't
>> >> have both a Win2K version and a WinXP version installed. The one
>> >> WinXP
>> >> version handles the opening menu from which we choose which one to run
>> >> this
>> >> session. Once we choose (or default), NTLDR uses Boot.ini and
>> >> NTDETECT.COM
>> >> to find our chosen system and load it, no matter if it is on the first
>> >> partition of the first HD or the 3rd partition on the 33rd (?) HD.
>> >>
>> >> My guess is that your Boot.ini is pointing to the wrong
>> >> rdisk(#)partition(#). Or perhaps that it is looking for the \WinNT
>> >> folder
>> >> (the default for Win2K) instead of \Windows (the default for WinXP) -
>> >> or
>> >> vice versa. There should be only a single C:\Boot.ini, and it should
>> >> point
>> >> to ALL your Windows installations, no matter where those are on your
>> >> HDs.
>> >> If I understand your system correctly, the line for Win2K should be
>> >> ...rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT; WinXP should be at
>> >> ...rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows. (HDs are numbered starting with zero
>> >> and
>> >> partition numbers start with 1 on each HD.) And be sure you are using
>> >> the
>> >> WinXP x64 versions of those NT* files; they are dated 3/25/2005 and
>> >> are
>> >> 295,536 and 47,772 bytes long.
>> >>
>> >> RC
>> >>
>> >> "dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> >> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> >I have a dual boot system that I am trying to get up and running, but
>> >> >I
>> >> > cannot get dual boot to work without constantly changing the
>> >> > versions
>> >> > of
>> >> > ntldr and dtdetect.com in c:\ . I have 33 scsi drives, and the first
>> >> > drive
>> >> > is
>> >> > divided into 3 volumes, c, f, and z. C and F are NTFS, Z is fat32
>> >> > (eventually
>> >> > I may want to load an old operating system there, but for now it is
>> >> > basically
>> >> > unused or for data storage.
>> >> > Anyway, win2k is up and running on F, in f:\winnt It has been
>> >> > working
>> >> > for
>> >> > almost 2 years. When I first set up the system, I tried dual boot
>> >> > with
>> >> > xp
>> >> > x64, but it stopped working after a while, and I just used it as a
>> >> > win2k
>> >> > machine. Now, I have reloaded xp x64 into c:\windows. I have dual
>> >> > boot
>> >> > set
>> >> > up, and it looks correct, but, if the version of ntldr and ntdetect
>> >> > in
>> >> > c:\
>> >> > are the newer ones supplied with xp x64, then xp x64 boots up fine,
>> >> > but
>> >> > I
>> >> > get
>> >> > an error message "winnt\system32\config\system missing or corrupt"
>> >> > if
>> >> > I
>> >> > try
>> >> > to boot win2k. If I replace the ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ with
>> >> > the
>> >> > older
>> >> > versions from win2k sp4, then win2k boots up fine, but I get an
>> >> > error
>> >> > about a
>> >> > missing or corrupt ntoskrnl.exe file, and I cannot boot xp x64.
>> >> >
>> >> > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. This is driving me
>> >> > nuts!!!

>>


 
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      02-21-2007
OK, hopefully we are getting somewhere. I replaced the versions of ntldr and
ntdetect.com in c:\ and rebooted. For some reason, xp x64 would not boot. I
could only boot win2k. I found that, somehow, the versions of ntldr and
ntdetect.com that I had replaced with the new versions had been replaced,
somehow, with the old versions. I tried this several times, and each time the
old versions were replacing the new versions, no matter what I did before
each shut down. So, I removed Acronis boot director. (I only installed that
after I had discovered that I could only boot operating systems according to
the version of the files, and hoped that I could specify which version to use
for each operating system. It did not work, but it may have had something to
do with the versions being replaced.)

Anyway, the bottom line is that even with that program gone, I still could
not boot into xp x64, because, every time I tried, the old versions were in
c:\. So, I tried a repair with the xp x64 disk. It came up with 2 operating
systems, c:\windows and i:\winnt. I logged into c:\windows and tried to do a
fixboot /rebuild, but that only resulted in "Fixboot cannot find the system
drive, or the drive specified is not valid". So, then, in the repair mode, I
copied new versions of ntldr and ntdetect into c:\ and tried to restart. Now,
although boot.ini is still there in c:\, and looks correct, the system does
not come up with a boot menu. It simply boots into xp x64, which is where I
am, now. Again, after getting the system to at least boot, again, into xp
x64, I tried to restart with the xp x64 disk and do a repair. Again, when I
log onto c:\windows and do a fixboot /repair, I get the same message as
above. I exit and again boot up with the cd, and this time I logged onto
i:\winnt and tried to do a fixboot /rebuild. Again, I get the same error
message.

So, now, I do not have a boot menu, and I can only boot into winxp x64.
Hopefully it is a short process, now, to get the system to dual boot into xp
x64 and windows 2000. (I am quite certain that I could replace the versions
of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ and I would again be able to get into win2k,
but not xp x64, although I have not tried that. What is different, now, is
that I no longer get a boot menu. The machine just boots, as if there is only
one operating system.

As far as the disk management is concerned, c: is now listed as the system
partition and f is just marked as healthy. Nothing is marked as boot, but I
guess that is because c: is marked as system, and it can't be marked as both.

Anyway, what do I do, now, to get the machine to dual boot xp x64 and win2k.



"R. C. White, MVP" wrote:

> Hi, Dakota.
>
> Sorry if it seemed I was "talking down" to you. It's not always easy to
> tell how much experience someone has from just newsgroup posts.
>
> SHORT VERSION:
>
> Please change to the WinXP versions of NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM - permanently.
> Write down the Status labels for both C: and F:. Then reboot, without
> reverting to the old versions of those two files, and choose Win2K from the
> menu. Win2K should boot properly. If it doesn't, we've isolated the
> problem and we can fix it.
>
>
> Now for the long-winded version...
>
> Your Boot.ini looks fine to me.
>
> Disk Management is one of my favorite utilities, and it has gotten better
> with later revisions. In Vista, it can shrink and extend partitions and do
> some other tricks that it could not in earlier versions. Also, it can show
> multiple statuses for a single volume. For example, if Win2K and WinXP
> could do this, your Drive C: would be marked "Healthy (System, Boot, Active,
> Page File, Crash Dump, Primary Partition)" when you are in WinXP. And when
> you are booted into Win2K, Drive C: would still be marked "Healthy (System,
> Active, Primary Partition)", but not (Boot); Drive F: would be marked
> "Healthy (Boot, Logical Drive)". In other words, the System Partition is
> always marked (System), but the (Boot) designation depends on which OS is
> running at the time. And many drives have several different statuses, even
> if only one can be shown in Win2K.
>
> > There are no partitions marked as active on the first
> > drive, which is a scsi drive.

>
> If you are booting from that SCSI drive, then there MUST be an Active
> primary partition on it, and that must be the System Partition. Since
> Win2K's Disk Management can't show multiple status indicators, you see that
> partition marked only as System, but it also is Active.
>
> > my first drive is partitioned into 3 volumes.

>
> OK. This is the SCSI drive and is designated in the BIOS as the boot
> device, right?
>
> > The first, c:, is the primary
> > partition, and it is marked as system.

>
> Correct. It is marked as (System) in both Win2K and WinXP, right?
>
> > It contains xp x64 in c:\windows .

>
> When you are booted into WinXP, this partition should be marked both
> (System) and (Boot). But, since DM can show only one label, it is marked
> (System) - and NO volume is marked (Boot), right?
>
> > Then there is an extended partition, and it contains two logical
> > partitions,
> > f and z.

>
> OK. Sounds like my system. ;^}
>
> > f is marked as boot.

>
> HERE is where the fun starts. F: should be marked (Boot) WHEN YOU ARE
> BOOTED INTO WIN2K. When you are booted into WinXP, F: should be "just
> another volume" so far as WinXP is concerned. It should NOT be marked
> (Boot) when you are in WinXP.
>
> > and win2k is in c:\winnt .

>
> I think you mean that Win2K is in F:\WinNT. This F: is the second volume on
> the first HD.
>
> > c and f are ntfs. z
> > is fat 32.

>
> OK. Let's don't confuse operating systems (Win2K and WinXP) with file
> systems (FAT32 and NTFS). Either OS can work just fine with either file
> system, so long as we respect Win2K's volume size limitations.
>
> > I also see several partitions marked as active, but they are on
> > other physical drives.

>
> That's fine. Each HD can have up to 4 primary partitions, of which any one
> at a time on each HD may be marked active.
>
> > There are no partitions marked as active on the first
> > drive, which is a scsi drive.

>
> Now we're back to the start: the primary partition on the boot device MUST
> be set Active, even though DM might not be able to show that status in
> addition to the (System) status.
>
>
> > FWIW, if I recall correctly, when I boot up into winxp x64, f is marked as
> > the system partition and c is marked as the boot partition, but that is
> > just
> > from memory. If it matters, I can go back and check that again by changing
> > the versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ and rebooting and selecting
> > xp
> > x64 as the operating system. As I said, if I don't change those files, and
> > try to boot xp x64, I get an error.

>
> Now we are down to the nitty-gritty. Your Drive F: should NEVER be marked
> as Active or System, because it is a logical drive, not a primary partition.
> I suspect that the counterintuitive System/Boot terminology is confusing
> things here. But F: should also not be marked as anything special when you
> are in WinXP. You'd better go back and recheck those labels in WinXP.
>
> > This has me totally baffled, especially since I have operated many dual
> > boot
> > systems over the years, although they were always a flavor of windows and
> > a
> > flavor of linux, never two versions of windows, although there was a time

>
> My experience was the opposite: always multiple Windows installations,
> never involving Linux or other flavors. So Microsoft's "Y" pattern - start
> in the System Partition then branch to one of several Boot Volumes - seems
> perfectly natural to me.
>
>
> You should be able to boot into Win2K by starting up with the WinXP x64
> versions of NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM. If you can't, then you need to figure
> out why not.
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
> (E-Mail Removed)
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> (Running Windows Mail in Vista Ultimate x64)
>
>
> "dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >I understand all of that, and that is why I am totally confused as to why
> >my
> > system does not work correctly. I do not change boot.ini, and it is in c:\
> > When I boot up, I do get two operating system choices, but only one works,
> > depending on the version of ntldr and ntdetect.com that I have in c:\ Here
> > is
> > a copy of my boot.ini file, which looks correct to me:
> > [boot loader]
> > ;timeout=30
> > default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT
> > [operating systems]
> > multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT="Microso ft Windows 2000
> > Professional" /fastdetect /noguiboot
> > ;multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Wind ows XP Professional x64
> > Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /noguiboot
> >
> >
> > I would attach a picture of my drive structure from computer management,
> > but
> > I don't believe there is any way to do attachments. If you want to see it,
> > however, I can post it to a web site where it can be viewed, if you want.
> > But, with the computer booted up in win2k, when I go and look at computer
> > management, it says the following:
> > my first drive is partitioned into 3 volumes. The first, c:, is the
> > primary
> > partition, and it is marked as system. It contains xp x64 in c:\windows .
> > Then there is an extended partition, and it contains two logical
> > partitions,
> > f and z. f is marked as boot. and win2k is in c:\winnt . c and f are ntfs.
> > z
> > is fat 32. I also see several partitions marked as active, but they are on
> > other physical drives. There are no partitions marked as active on the
> > first
> > drive, which is a scsi drive.
> >
> > FWIW, if I recall correctly, when I boot up into winxp x64, f is marked as
> > the system partition and c is marked as the boot partition, but that is
> > just
> > from memory. If it matters, I can go back and check that again by changing
> > the versions of ntldr and ntdetect.com in c:\ and rebooting and selecting
> > xp
> > x64 as the operating system. As I said, if I don't change those files, and
> > try to boot xp x64, I get an error.
> >
> > I was going to post a picture of the computer management screen, but there
> > is no way to upload a jpg, or at least I don't think there is. If it
> > matters,
> > I can post it on a web site.
> >
> > This has me totally baffled, especially since I have operated many dual
> > boot
> > systems over the years, although they were always a flavor of windows and
> > a
> > flavor of linux, never two versions of windows, although there was a time
> > (very short) when this computer did properly dual boot win2k and winxp
> > x64,
> > but that was over 18 months ago when I first set it up with a beta version
> > of
> > xp x64.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "R. C. White, MVP" wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, Dakota.
> >>
> >> > in c:\, which is the boot drive. (win2k is in f:\winnt, and f: is the
> >> > system
> >> > drive.
> >>
> >> LOTS of people get confused by these counter-intuitive terms! :>( We
> >> BOOT
> >> from the System Partition (typically C:, but not always) and keep the
> >> operating SYSTEM files in the Boot Volume - which can be C: or any other
> >> primary partition or logical drive in the computer. See this KB article:
> >> Definition of System Partition and Boot Partition
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/
> >>
> >> (I have some quibbles with this KB article. The System Partition must
> >> always be a primary partition, but the Boot Folder can be in a logical
> >> drive
> >> in an extended partition, so the Boot Volume does not necessarily have to
> >> be
> >> a "partition"; the term "boot partition" should be "boot volume".)
> >>
> >> In your case, C: is the System Partition, where NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and
> >> Boot.ini reside. You may have other copies of these files scattered
> >> around
> >> your drives, but only those in the Root of the System Partition (C:\)
> >> count.
> >> In the very early stages of the boot process, when the system needs these
> >> files, it has not yet learned to use folders, or even other partitions or
> >> drives, so these files must be where the BIOS tells the system to look:
> >> in
> >> the Root of the Active primary partition on the drive designated in the
> >> BIOS
> >> as the boot device.
> >>
> >> F: is the Boot Volume for your Win2K system; F:\WinNT is its Boot Folder.
> >> C: is the Boot Volume for your WinXP x64; C:\Windows is its Boot Folder.
> >> C:
> >> is also the System Partition for the whole computer; both Win2K and WinXP
> >> start here and branch to where C:\Boot.ini points. If C:\NTLDR and
> >> C:\NTDETECT.COM are the WinXP x64 versions, and if C:\Boot.ini has the
> >> proper contents, and if C: is the Active partition on your
> >> currently-designated boot device, then you should see the operating
> >> system
> >> menu each time you reboot. This menu should offer you two choices:
> >> Win2K
> >> and WinXP x64. The actual text of the choices may vary; these come from
> >> the
> >> labels within quotation marks in Boot.ini. These texts are only for the
> >> benefit of us humans; the computer relies on the
> >> rdisk(#)partition(#)\Windows to find the proper ntoskrnl and load the
> >> chosen
> >> operating system. NTLDR completely ignores drive letters at this point.
> >>
> >> When properly installed, you should not have to swap NTLDR versions. The
> >> latest (WinXP x64) versions should handle all prior versions of Windows
> >> from
> >> Win95 through WinXP x86, as well as WinXP x64. Your error messages about
> >> the config\system file and ntoskrnl being bad or missing are obviously
> >> wrong, because you can boot when you put in the proper locations. It
> >> sounds
> >> like your C:\boot.ini file is pointing to the wrong location for your
> >> Win2K
> >> boot folder. As you've described your system, boot.ini should point to
> >> the
> >> \WinNT folder on the second partition on the first HD:
> >> rdisk(0)partition(2)\WinNT. And, for WinXP, it should point to the
> >> \Windows
> >> folder on the first partition on the same HD:
> >> rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows.
> >>
> >> RC
> >> --
> >> R. C. White, CPA
> >> San Marcos, TX
> >> (E-Mail Removed)
> >> Microsoft Windows MVP
> >> (Running Windows Mail in Vista Ultimate x64)
> >>
> >> "dakota02" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> > Sorry about that 33. It is really 3. Sometimes my keyboard puts in an
> >> > extra
> >> > character.
> >> >
> >> > I am using the same boot.ini all of the time, and it is correct. The
> >> > only
> >> > change that I have to make is to change the version of ntldr and
> >> > ntdetect.com
> >> > in c:\, which is the boot drive. (win2k is in f:\winnt, and f: is the
> >> > system
> >> > drive. If I go into recovery console, it thinks winxp x64 is in
> >> > c:\windows
> >> > and win2k is in I:\winnt . I don't know if this is making a difference.
> >> > I
> >> > doubt it. But, the version of my "new" ntldr and ntdetect.com that have
> >> > to
> >> > be
> >> > in c:\ to get winxp x64 to boot are the size that you mention, but the
> >> > date

 
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