«

I pulled a document off the Vista web site on Monday that stated that both 32
and 64 bit versions would be on every disk except the Home Basic version.
So, today after work I ran into Best Buy grabbed a copy of the the new Vista
Business Upgrade and procedded home. Now that I am able to settle down and
start my first upgrade, I discover that only the 32 bit version is included
and to add insult to injury; I have to spend an extra $17.00 to order the
64-bit version and lose a few more days.

If MS had been truthful and stated that only the $399 Ultimate version was
actually shipping with both version; I could have made a more informed
choice. However the way this was done seems a little too much like "Bate and
Switch"

This has been known in the Vista newsroup for months.

"Xbox Live Fan" <Xbox Live > wrote in message
news0B7DC50-B32E-4647-AE9C-...
>I pulled a document off the Vista web site on Monday that stated that both
>32
> and 64 bit versions would be on every disk except the Home Basic version.
> So, today after work I ran into Best Buy grabbed a copy of the the new
> Vista
> Business Upgrade and procedded home. Now that I am able to settle down
> and
> start my first upgrade, I discover that only the 32 bit version is
> included
> and to add insult to injury; I have to spend an extra $17.00 to order the
> 64-bit version and lose a few more days.
>
> If MS had been truthful and stated that only the $399 Ultimate version was
> actually shipping with both version; I could have made a more informed
> choice. However the way this was done seems a little too much like "Bate
> and
> Switch"

Xbox Live Fan:
The following is from
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...ons/64bit.mspx
"64-bit DVD
If you bought Windows Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, or Business as a
retail, packaged product, and you would like a DVD of 64-bit software media
to install on your PC, please choose your language:

Choose your language:
Note: 64-bit media is included in the box with Windows Vista Ultimate.

Some product features are only available in certain editions of Windows
Vista and may require advanced or additional hardware."



--
Dennis Pack
XP x64, Vista Enterprise x64
Office2007
"Xbox Live Fan" <Xbox Live > wrote in message
news0B7DC50-B32E-4647-AE9C-...
>I pulled a document off the Vista web site on Monday that stated that both
>32
> and 64 bit versions would be on every disk except the Home Basic version.
> So, today after work I ran into Best Buy grabbed a copy of the the new
> Vista
> Business Upgrade and procedded home. Now that I am able to settle down
> and
> start my first upgrade, I discover that only the 32 bit version is
> included
> and to add insult to injury; I have to spend an extra $17.00 to order the
> 64-bit version and lose a few more days.
>
> If MS had been truthful and stated that only the $399 Ultimate version was
> actually shipping with both version; I could have made a more informed
> choice. However the way this was done seems a little too much like "Bate
> and
> Switch"

In my view, while it is true that buyer should beware and that the
information, that only Ultimate contains the actual install files for
64-bit Vista "in-box", is available on Microsoft's and some other web
pages and forums, you do have a valid point. I checked the web pages of
a few resellers that now feature Vista and did not find any information
as to the lack of 64-bit install media in most Vista SKUs.

I don't think Microsoft will win many friends among consumers if it
turns out that any number of them purchase the product and then discover
that they have to pay any additional fee for having MS ship the needed
DVD.

I have not seen the packaging. Hopefully, the content details are
prominently viewable.

Tom
MSMVP
Windows Shell/User


"Xbox Live Fan" <Xbox Live > wrote in
message news0B7DC50-B32E-4647-AE9C-...
>I pulled a document off the Vista web site on Monday that stated that
>both 32
> and 64 bit versions would be on every disk except the Home Basic
> version.
> So, today after work I ran into Best Buy grabbed a copy of the the new
> Vista
> Business Upgrade and procedded home. Now that I am able to settle
> down and
> start my first upgrade, I discover that only the 32 bit version is
> included
> and to add insult to injury; I have to spend an extra $17.00 to order
> the
> 64-bit version and lose a few more days.
>
> If MS had been truthful and stated that only the $399 Ultimate version
> was
> actually shipping with both version; I could have made a more informed
> choice. However the way this was done seems a little too much like
> "Bate and
> Switch"

I may be way off on this one, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am, but
here's my take.... I'm disgusted with Microsoft over this. IMO the
focus on Vista should have been on 64-bit and much as multi-core, with
a GUI and bundled apps that aimed to showcase that power. That didn't
happen, although multi-core x64 is the standard in almost all retail
desktop and notebook computers, there still aren't enough 64-bit
systems out there for Microsoft to do what they did with Windows 95.

Windows 95 was a risk for MS, because at the time the leap from 16-bit
to 32-bit architecture had taken place, but the Windows 3.11 was a 16-
bit GUI that ran on top of 16-bit MS-DOS. Windows 95 made the leap to
32-bit and took full advantage of the modern processors.

Vista, as all tech media is reporting is a pretty shell with some
usability enhancements, but not much going on new under the hood; and
since Microsoft has to put more focus on one or the other they have
chosen to make the 64-bit Vista more illusive than the 32-bit version,
likely knowing the driver hell end users will be in for at this stage
in the game.... I'm following the advise of tech media, I'm holding
off on this release. I have a Turion 64 x2 based notebook, but the
vendor doesn't have 64-bit Vista drivers posted and also my free Vista
Home Premium upgrade from Windows XP Media Center Edition that I
qualify for (because I bought a notebook a few weeks ago) will give me
Aero, but will take away Remote Desktop functionality which Microsoft
has reserved for Vista Business and Vista Ultimate. Add to that PC
World's Vista bench test in the current issue which show that most
apps run slower on Vista (even on multi-core systems).

My perspective at this point is that it's too early to upgrade..... I
know Vista is the way forward and XP will be eventually left behind,
but the incentive to upgrade doesn't out weigh the risk (yet). Look at
how long XP has lived and how much its changed..... At some point in
Vista's life cycle, the 64-bit version will become dominate (or at
least much better supported in the mainstream) and other factors will
weigh in, making the incentive out weigh the risk.... If Microsoft had
a clue they would have maybe hired some economist to help them with
these sort of problems, instead their brilliant marketing department
came up with "the wow starts now".

So if you install 32-bit Vista to replace 32-bit Win XP, you gain a
pretty OS that supports desktop widgets and allows you to search you
desktop for documents (what Google Desktop has been giving us for free
on XP for over a year now). You're going to be faced with potential
driver hell, time lost on upgrade hassle (from which there is no way
back I understand) and at the end you'll have a machine running a tad
slower that less capable in some ways due to new media security
restrictions, not to mention loss of some really cool features like
Remote Desktop.

As with everything it's all about incentives vs risk. I see multiple
missed opportunities here for Microsoft, 64-bit push is one.... I do
understand why they can't do it yet through, but I don't trust
Microsoft... I believe they know the timing of Vista's release isn't
optimal related to the install base on 64-bit multi-core systems, I
assume they are working to plan for a Vista's second (likely of many)
incarnation for 2008, that's probably when I'll bite.



On Jan 30, 11:31 pm, "Tom Ferguson" <tom.ms...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In my view, while it is true that buyer should beware and that the
> information, that only Ultimate contains the actual install files for
> 64-bit Vista "in-box", is available on Microsoft's and some other web
> pages and forums, you do have a valid point. I checked the web pages of
> a few resellers that now feature Vista and did not find any information
> as to the lack of 64-bit install media in most Vista SKUs.
>
> I don't think Microsoft will win many friends among consumers if it
> turns out that any number of them purchase the product and then discover
> that they have to pay any additional fee for having MS ship the needed
> DVD.
>
> I have not seen the packaging. Hopefully, the content details are
> prominently viewable.
>
> Tom
> MSMVP
> Windows Shell/User
>
> "Xbox Live Fan" <Xbox Live F...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> messagenews0B7DC50-B32E-4647-AE9C-...
>
> >I pulled a document off the Vista web site on Monday that stated that
> >both 32
> > and 64 bit versions would be on every disk except the Home Basic
> > version.
> > So, today after work I ran into Best Buy grabbed a copy of the the new
> > Vista


> > Business Upgrade and procedded home. Now that I am able to settle
> > down and
> > start my first upgrade, I discover that only the 32 bit version is
> > included
> > and to add insult to injury; I have to spend an extra $17.00 to order
> > the
> > 64-bit version and lose a few more days.
>
> > If MS had been truthful and stated that only the $399 Ultimate version
> > was
> > actually shipping with both version; I could have made a more informed
> > choice. However the way this was done seems a little too much like
> > "Bate and
> > Switch"

Just to clarify by "second incarnation of Vista by 2008", I'm talking
about a significant, well publicized service pack (presumably Vista
SP1) near the same scale of SP2 for XP. I believe we'll see a
significant patch to Vista within a year and a half and after that
point the incentives to upgrade will increase and continue until XP is
slowly based out over the five years or so.

Why give Micrsoft more of your money at this point? Let other people
pay to help them make it as stable as XP is today, then upgrade. For
me, 64-bit support would do it, it's a damn shame my 64-bit notebook
won't land me a 64-bit Vista Home Premium upgrade through, at first
that upset me, but the more I thought about the more I realized how
far from the mark Vista is.

Not everyone has the ability to download a 4 gig file practically. Most
customers will have dialup (56k max) or in my case satellite with limited
bandwidth.


"Dennis Pack" <> wrote in message
news:A8A91A1E-3032-422C-83D6-...
> Xbox Live Fan:
> The following is from
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...ons/64bit.mspx
> "64-bit DVD
> If you bought Windows Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, or Business as a
> retail, packaged product, and you would like a DVD of 64-bit software
> media to install on your PC, please choose your language:
>
> Choose your language:
> Note: 64-bit media is included in the box with Windows Vista Ultimate.
>
> Some product features are only available in certain editions of Windows
> Vista and may require advanced or additional hardware."
>
>
>
> --
> Dennis Pack
> XP x64, Vista Enterprise x64
> Office2007
> "Xbox Live Fan" <Xbox Live > wrote in message
> news0B7DC50-B32E-4647-AE9C-...
>>I pulled a document off the Vista web site on Monday that stated that both
>>32
>> and 64 bit versions would be on every disk except the Home Basic version.
>> So, today after work I ran into Best Buy grabbed a copy of the the new
>> Vista
>> Business Upgrade and procedded home. Now that I am able to settle down
>> and
>> start my first upgrade, I discover that only the 32 bit version is
>> included
>> and to add insult to injury; I have to spend an extra $17.00 to order the
>> 64-bit version and lose a few more days.
>>
>> If MS had been truthful and stated that only the $399 Ultimate version
>> was
>> actually shipping with both version; I could have made a more informed
>> choice. However the way this was done seems a little too much like "Bate
>> and
>> Switch"
>

SP1 is scheduled for the second half of this year, not 2008. It is
coordinated with the release of Longhorn Server because they share the same
codebase and that's how service packs work. What you are suggesting would a
Release 2, not a service pack.

"RMZ" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> Just to clarify by "second incarnation of Vista by 2008", I'm talking
> about a significant, well publicized service pack (presumably Vista
> SP1) near the same scale of SP2 for XP. I believe we'll see a
> significant patch to Vista within a year and a half and after that
> point the incentives to upgrade will increase and continue until XP is
> slowly based out over the five years or so.
>
> Why give Micrsoft more of your money at this point? Let other people
> pay to help them make it as stable as XP is today, then upgrade. For
> me, 64-bit support would do it, it's a damn shame my 64-bit notebook
> won't land me a 64-bit Vista Home Premium upgrade through, at first
> that upset me, but the more I thought about the more I realized how
> far from the mark Vista is.
>
>
>
>
>
>

John:
I agree with you fully about the restrictions in downloading large
files. I was just pointing to the DVD availability article for the original
post. Have a great day.

--
Dennis Pack
XP x64, Vista Enterprise x64
Office2007
"John Barnes" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Not everyone has the ability to download a 4 gig file practically. Most
> customers will have dialup (56k max) or in my case satellite with limited
> bandwidth.
>
>
> "Dennis Pack" <> wrote in message
> news:A8A91A1E-3032-422C-83D6-...
>> Xbox Live Fan:
>> The following is from
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...ons/64bit.mspx
>> "64-bit DVD
>> If you bought Windows Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, or Business as a
>> retail, packaged product, and you would like a DVD of 64-bit software
>> media to install on your PC, please choose your language:
>>
>> Choose your language:
>> Note: 64-bit media is included in the box with Windows Vista Ultimate.
>>
>> Some product features are only available in certain editions of Windows
>> Vista and may require advanced or additional hardware."
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dennis Pack
>> XP x64, Vista Enterprise x64
>> Office2007
>> "Xbox Live Fan" <Xbox Live > wrote in
>> message news0B7DC50-B32E-4647-AE9C-...
>>>I pulled a document off the Vista web site on Monday that stated that
>>>both 32
>>> and 64 bit versions would be on every disk except the Home Basic
>>> version.
>>> So, today after work I ran into Best Buy grabbed a copy of the the new
>>> Vista
>>> Business Upgrade and procedded home. Now that I am able to settle down
>>> and
>>> start my first upgrade, I discover that only the 32 bit version is
>>> included
>>> and to add insult to injury; I have to spend an extra $17.00 to order
>>> the
>>> 64-bit version and lose a few more days.
>>>
>>> If MS had been truthful and stated that only the $399 Ultimate version
>>> was
>>> actually shipping with both version; I could have made a more informed
>>> choice. However the way this was done seems a little too much like
>>> "Bate and
>>> Switch"
>>
>

I wonder if Microsoft has problems with the 64 bit iterations. I was quite
surprised that the Windows Vista product shipped with the quarterly MAPS was
not only just an upgrade version (in the past full versions were shipped),
and only the Vista Business version (in the past Microsoft included XP media
center in MAPS) but also, it was only the 32 bit version. I feel a bit
bushwacked here.


"Tom Ferguson" wrote:

> In my view, while it is true that buyer should beware and that the
> information, that only Ultimate contains the actual install files for
> 64-bit Vista "in-box", is available on Microsoft's and some other web
> pages and forums, you do have a valid point. I checked the web pages of
> a few resellers that now feature Vista and did not find any information
> as to the lack of 64-bit install media in most Vista SKUs.
>
> I don't think Microsoft will win many friends among consumers if it
> turns out that any number of them purchase the product and then discover
> that they have to pay any additional fee for having MS ship the needed
> DVD.
>
> I have not seen the packaging. Hopefully, the content details are
> prominently viewable.
>
> Tom
> MSMVP
> Windows Shell/User
>
>
> "Xbox Live Fan" <Xbox Live > wrote in
> message news0B7DC50-B32E-4647-AE9C-...
> >I pulled a document off the Vista web site on Monday that stated that
> >both 32
> > and 64 bit versions would be on every disk except the Home Basic
> > version.
> > So, today after work I ran into Best Buy grabbed a copy of the the new
> > Vista
> > Business Upgrade and procedded home. Now that I am able to settle
> > down and
> > start my first upgrade, I discover that only the 32 bit version is
> > included
> > and to add insult to injury; I have to spend an extra $17.00 to order
> > the
> > 64-bit version and lose a few more days.
> >
> > If MS had been truthful and stated that only the $399 Ultimate version
> > was
> > actually shipping with both version; I could have made a more informed
> > choice. However the way this was done seems a little too much like
> > "Bate and
> > Switch"
>
>