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I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64 version
of Windows Vista.

I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put on
XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I was
sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver support
and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version of
Windows (which we now know as Vista).

As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out there,
XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm fine
with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of Vista
at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
upgrade?

I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a big
help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and today
not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper, but
they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.

I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy it,
esepcially being a student.

Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.

You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade Vista64.
And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what Colin says
will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves behind the
current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if installed in the
current x64 volume.

"RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
news:0D568F66-4EC5-47F2-A8A4-...
> I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
> version
> of Windows Vista.
>
> I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
> June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put on
> XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
> was
> sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
> support
> and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version of
> Windows (which we now know as Vista).
>
> As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
> there,
> XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm fine
> with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
> users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
> Vista
> at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
> upgrade?
>
> I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
> want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a big
> help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
> discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
> today
> not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
> but
> they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
>
> I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy it,
> esepcially being a student.
>
> Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.

Yes that's right, you can buy the upgrade version, but you will have to do a
clean install. So, the "upgrade" is referring to your license only, there
is no way to "upgrade" your existing Windows installation.

I believe you will have to start the install from within your existing
Windows installation (so you won't be able to format the drive during the
clean install... silly).

XP x64 can "upgrade" to either Vista Business or Vista Ultimate.

- Aaron

"John Barnes" <> wrote in message
news:...
> You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
> Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
> Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves
> behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
> installed in the current x64 volume.
>
> "RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
> news:0D568F66-4EC5-47F2-A8A4-...
>> I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
>> version
>> of Windows Vista.
>>
>> I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
>> June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put
>> on
>> XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
>> was
>> sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
>> support
>> and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version
>> of
>> Windows (which we now know as Vista).
>>
>> As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
>> there,
>> XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm fine
>> with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
>> users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
>> Vista
>> at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
>> upgrade?
>>
>> I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
>> want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a
>> big
>> help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
>> discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
>> today
>> not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
>> but
>> they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
>>
>> I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy it,
>> esepcially being a student.
>>
>> Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.
>

The very large windows.old folder resulted on a test scenario in which I did
an outrageous thing or two so should not be taken as how it will actually
work with x64. There will be a windows.old, but it will be a pretty normal
one.

"John Barnes" <> wrote in message
news:...
> You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
> Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
> Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves
> behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
> installed in the current x64 volume.
>
> "RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
> news:0D568F66-4EC5-47F2-A8A4-...
>> I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
>> version
>> of Windows Vista.
>>
>> I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
>> June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put
>> on
>> XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
>> was
>> sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
>> support
>> and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version
>> of
>> Windows (which we now know as Vista).
>>
>> As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
>> there,
>> XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm fine
>> with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
>> users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
>> Vista
>> at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
>> upgrade?
>>
>> I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
>> want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a
>> big
>> help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
>> discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
>> today
>> not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
>> but
>> they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
>>
>> I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy it,
>> esepcially being a student.
>>
>> Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.
>

Pretty normal meaning about the size of the current Windows partition 'used'
size? If so, guess that about 20 gig of unused space would allow the
Vista64 to be installed and after deleting the .old, you could then install
your programs and replace any data files? What about the unmoveable files?
Are there any involved.?


"Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
news:AF94637E-8664-4B55-A152-...
> The very large windows.old folder resulted on a test scenario in which I
> did an outrageous thing or two so should not be taken as how it will
> actually work with x64. There will be a windows.old, but it will be a
> pretty normal one.
>
> "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
>> Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
>> Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves
>> behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
>> installed in the current x64 volume.
>>
>> "RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
>> news:0D568F66-4EC5-47F2-A8A4-...
>>> I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
>>> version
>>> of Windows Vista.
>>>
>>> I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
>>> June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put
>>> on
>>> XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
>>> was
>>> sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
>>> support
>>> and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version
>>> of
>>> Windows (which we now know as Vista).
>>>
>>> As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
>>> there,
>>> XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm
>>> fine
>>> with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
>>> users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
>>> Vista
>>> at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
>>> upgrade?
>>>
>>> I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
>>> want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a
>>> big
>>> help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
>>> discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
>>> today
>>> not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
>>> but
>>> they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
>>>
>>> I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy
>>> it,
>>> esepcially being a student.
>>>
>>> Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.
>>
>

The unmovable files are just gone. They are things like VSS snapshots
(system restore points, etc). You get a new MFT and registry.

Yes, however you backed up your files and settings, you restore those and
reinstall your apps.

What I did that was crazy was do a custom install of Vista x86 on a volume
which contained a live XP Pro x64. Since XP Pro x64 cannot run in a virtual
machine I had only one chance to try something like that. I had XP x86 on
the C: drive on this machine and XP x64 on D:. When I got the TechBeta
reward I clean installed Vista x64 on C: and just ignored the XP x64 on D:.
I had a dual boot screen when done but I just never booted into XP x64
again.

Then I decided to use an MSDN key to install Vista x86 on D: using a custom
install (ran Setup from the Vista x64 desktop on C: to preserve drive
enumeration). I didn't format D:. I just did a custom install of Vista x86
over XP Pro x64. I did it that way to find out for myself what would happen
if a user just assumed that "custom" meant "clean" (as in format the drive
first and reinstall). Does Vista permit installing x86 on top of x64?

The good news is that you can do that. The bad news is that you can do
that.

What I found out was that x86 (anything) does not have any idea how to
handle the file folders from a previous x64 installation. Instead of just
rolling up into windows.old it replaced the OS, did a roll up, but failed to
delete the old folder structure and left it intact like an upgrade. I got a
custom install that looked like an upgrade but wasn't (the old programs
weren't actually installed anymore).

I don't remember if you are using Vista x64 or not, but if you are you know
what the Program Files and Program Files (x86) file folders are for in a
64bit OS. That's where things had gone wrong.

The installation left all the program folders and code intact in both
Program Files and Program Files (x86) and then installed new programs into
Program Files. That meant that I had both dead (x64) and live (x86) program
folders in Program Files and dead (x86) program folders in Program Files
(x86). The system seemed OK about that but I could not for the life of me
keep track of what was dead and what was alive. Naturally the dead programs
folders were just uninstalled program files, but the human interface device
back of the keyboard couldn't handle that.

Anyway, I played with it a few days just for fun and then flattened with a
format from the Vista x64 Drive Manager and reinstalled.

I don't know if anybody on the dev team ever thought of trying a stunt like
that, but it should be a blocked installation scenario.

"John Barnes" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Pretty normal meaning about the size of the current Windows partition
> 'used' size? If so, guess that about 20 gig of unused space would allow
> the Vista64 to be installed and after deleting the .old, you could then
> install your programs and replace any data files? What about the
> unmoveable files? Are there any involved.?
>
>

"John Barnes" <> wrote in message
news:...
> You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
> Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
> Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves
> behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
> installed in the current x64 volume.
>

First, RMONAG11, I asked the very same question you did about a week ago in
this forum. You seem to have elicited better answers than I. I guess they
got good "practice" on my question before they answered yours.

Now, for John Barnes, et al:
As I understand it, what you all are saying is that the way we actuate MS's
promise of "upgrade pricing" for XP x64 users is simply by going out and
buying an upgrade version of Vista, which would be cheaper than a full
version. So, does that mean that the cheaper upgrade version is still a full
version of Vista? Basically, it's the same disk only with different
packaging and pricing to differentiate the "upgrade version" from the "full
version"? That is, both are actually full versions, they simply are packaged
and priced differently?
That's the only way I can see that it would be possible to get an upgrade
version yet do a clean install with it.

Do I have that right, or am I missing something here?

An upgrade edition of Vista is Vista. The retail upgrade and full edition
dvd's are identical. The difference in the behavior of Setup is controlled
by the product key. Setup branches on product key and the available
installation methodolgy is determined that way. The product key also causes
Setup to branch to the manifest for the edition of Vista being installed.
The resulting installation of Vista, however, is the same whether that
edition was installed with an upgrade or full edition product key.

You have to be very careful about what you expect from the term "clean
installation." If you mean "can I get a classic clean installation, where I
first formatted the hard drive and then installed the OS, from an upgrade
edition?" then I think the answer may be no. Choosing the custom
installation option instead of upgrade has not resulted in a reformatted
volume in my experience.

If you mean "will I get a clean installation of the operating system?" the
answer is yes. Vista uses an imaging methodology that guarantees that all
sectors used in laying down the image will inherit the file format of the
image regardless of what may or may not have been written to those sectors
previously. Additionally, certain folders, like Program Files. users, and
Windows are rolled up into windows.old and those may be deleted as with
previous versions of Windows.

I do not believe it is possible to format the target hard drive before
installing Vista with an upgrade edition product key unless MS has made a
provision for that by allowing installation to a volume other than the
legacy Windows volume that is in play during the upgrade process. That is
the one possibility I have never been able to test because the only product
keys I have had are full edition pk's.

I hope this helps.

"DP" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
>> Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
>> Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it leaves
>> behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
>> installed in the current x64 volume.
>>
>
> First, RMONAG11, I asked the very same question you did about a week ago
> in this forum. You seem to have elicited better answers than I. I guess
> they got good "practice" on my question before they answered yours.
>
> Now, for John Barnes, et al:
> As I understand it, what you all are saying is that the way we actuate
> MS's promise of "upgrade pricing" for XP x64 users is simply by going out
> and buying an upgrade version of Vista, which would be cheaper than a full
> version. So, does that mean that the cheaper upgrade version is still a
> full version of Vista? Basically, it's the same disk only with different
> packaging and pricing to differentiate the "upgrade version" from the
> "full version"? That is, both are actually full versions, they simply are
> packaged and priced differently?
> That's the only way I can see that it would be possible to get an upgrade
> version yet do a clean install with it.
>
> Do I have that right, or am I missing something here?
>
>
>

Further thought. It is possible to format a volume after you have started
Setup from the legacy OS desktop (required when you are using an upgrade
edition product key). But you have to minimize the Setup screen, use the
legacy OS Disk Manager to delete, create, and assign a drive letter. Do not
format since Custom Install will do a quick format if the volume is not
formatted yet. You want the NTFS enhancements since XP.

You then maximize the Setup screen and click on the Refresh button to get
the new volume to show up in the volume list in Setup. What I don't know is
if an upgrade edition product key will allow you to instlall Vista on a
volume other than the legacy OS system volume. If not, then the above is no
help.

"Colin Barnhorst" <> wrote in message
news:A6FD3ACE-F286-4885-8F6A-...
> An upgrade edition of Vista is Vista. The retail upgrade and full edition
> dvd's are identical. The difference in the behavior of Setup is
> controlled by the product key. Setup branches on product key and the
> available installation methodolgy is determined that way. The product key
> also causes Setup to branch to the manifest for the edition of Vista being
> installed. The resulting installation of Vista, however, is the same
> whether that edition was installed with an upgrade or full edition product
> key.
>
> You have to be very careful about what you expect from the term "clean
> installation." If you mean "can I get a classic clean installation, where
> I first formatted the hard drive and then installed the OS, from an
> upgrade edition?" then I think the answer may be no. Choosing the custom
> installation option instead of upgrade has not resulted in a reformatted
> volume in my experience.
>
> If you mean "will I get a clean installation of the operating system?" the
> answer is yes. Vista uses an imaging methodology that guarantees that all
> sectors used in laying down the image will inherit the file format of the
> image regardless of what may or may not have been written to those sectors
> previously. Additionally, certain folders, like Program Files. users, and
> Windows are rolled up into windows.old and those may be deleted as with
> previous versions of Windows.
>
> I do not believe it is possible to format the target hard drive before
> installing Vista with an upgrade edition product key unless MS has made a
> provision for that by allowing installation to a volume other than the
> legacy Windows volume that is in play during the upgrade process. That is
> the one possibility I have never been able to test because the only
> product keys I have had are full edition pk's.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> "DP" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>>
>> "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> You will be able to buy the upgrade version. You must buy upgrade
>>> Vista64. And you will have to do a custom install, which seems from what
>>> Colin says will require a very large volume or second volume as it
>>> leaves behind the current x64 system gathered into a file called .old if
>>> installed in the current x64 volume.
>>>
>>
>> First, RMONAG11, I asked the very same question you did about a week ago
>> in this forum. You seem to have elicited better answers than I. I guess
>> they got good "practice" on my question before they answered yours.
>>
>> Now, for John Barnes, et al:
>> As I understand it, what you all are saying is that the way we actuate
>> MS's promise of "upgrade pricing" for XP x64 users is simply by going out
>> and buying an upgrade version of Vista, which would be cheaper than a
>> full version. So, does that mean that the cheaper upgrade version is
>> still a full version of Vista? Basically, it's the same disk only with
>> different packaging and pricing to differentiate the "upgrade version"
>> from the "full version"? That is, both are actually full versions, they
>> simply are packaged and priced differently?
>> That's the only way I can see that it would be possible to get an upgrade
>> version yet do a clean install with it.
>>
>> Do I have that right, or am I missing something here?
>>
>>
>>
>

Ok, I've sat and read everything posted on this subject and still I have a
question that hasn't actually been hit upon as of yet. Say I buy my
"upgrade" copy of Vista and install it, all goes well and I'm running
smoothly down life's path on Vista Ultimate x64, a crisis occurs in which I
have to do a complete reinstall of Vista, no prior os available, say the
loss of the system hdd, where am I aqt that point, do I first have to
re-install Win XP x64 then Vista, or am I able to just install Vista. From
what I've read thus far it would seem that XP will have to go back on first.

Dshai

"RMONAG11" <> wrote in message
news:0D568F66-4EC5-47F2-A8A4-...
> I'm quite confused over where excatly I stand on upgrading to an x64
> version
> of Windows Vista.
>
> I purchased an OEM version of XP Professional X64 from ebuyer.com around
> June 2005. I built a new system and wanted it to be X64 based so I put on
> XP64, and everything has been fine and dandy, one of the main reasons I
> was
> sold on doing it then was because all the hardware I got had driver
> support
> and I was told I'd be future proofing my system for the new X64 version of
> Windows (which we now know as Vista).
>
> As far as i've been able to gather from what information there is out
> there,
> XP64 users cannot do an "upgrade" to any version of Vista, which I'm fine
> with anyway. However, there is mention of a discount for Windows 2K/X64
> users which allow them to buy the full x86 or x64 Business Edition of
> Vista
> at the upgrade price. Now how excatly would we go about claiming this
> upgrade?
>
> I wanted to e-mail MS directly about this, but all the e-mailing seem to
> want to charge me for it! If anyone could clear this up it would be a big
> help, because i'd be quite annoyed if i didn't qualify for some sort of
> discount. I bought XP64 pretty much as soon as it came to market, and
> today
> not only do I see the very OEM version I bought over a year ago cheaper,
> but
> they now come with a Vista upgrade coupon that permit a discount.
>
> I want to upgrade to Vista64 Ultimate, but I can't afford £500 to buy it,
> esepcially being a student.
>
> Thanks for anyone that can shed some light on this.