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Standard Floppy

 
 
Tony Sperling
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2006
Hi, all.

a
I have two desktop machines running at the moment, both are having floppy
drives that are rarely used. Perhaps the infrequent activity is making them
depressed, because now that I need them - one never finishes reading a
floppy before timing out, or alternatively claims that the file system isn't
recognised. That one has just been sitting there, sulking for some time now,
putting it in the other machine showed the diskette to be allright. Now,
though, that drive suddenly isn't displayed at all in the filemanager, but
it does show up in the BIOS setup.

We've had questions on floppy booting, but I need it now for the SATA/RAID
drivers.

b
I am tireing of this, I need this stuff to be stored on reliable media, and
I wonder if it is possible to make an ISO from a floppy, burn it to other
media and have the installation seeing it as the floppy. I ask this since
the Windows Installers typically refers to CD drives as the [A:] drive and
assumes it can only do this if the CD is originally built from a floppy ISO.

Any thoughts and comments will be appreciated. I wouldn't mind having to
dump the RAID right now, but I need the SATA drivers very bad - it's just
ironic that they are coupled up together.


Tony. . .


 
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Robert
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2006
Hey Tony,

Maybe your floppy drives are having trouble reading data from old/worn
floppy diskettes. Have you checked them lately? I'm also not too sure
that they have feelings.

About your floppy to ISO... This sounds a bit crazy, but for a regular
CD which holds 700 MB, it would take 486 (estimated) floppy drives to
fill a CD -- Is it worth it now?

Is A: that important?

Just my two cents (literally) -Rob
Tony Sperling wrote:
> Hi, all.
>
> a
> I have two desktop machines running at the moment, both are having floppy
> drives that are rarely used. Perhaps the infrequent activity is making them
> depressed, because now that I need them - one never finishes reading a
> floppy before timing out, or alternatively claims that the file system isn't
> recognised. That one has just been sitting there, sulking for some time now,
> putting it in the other machine showed the diskette to be allright. Now,
> though, that drive suddenly isn't displayed at all in the filemanager, but
> it does show up in the BIOS setup.
>
> We've had questions on floppy booting, but I need it now for the SATA/RAID
> drivers.
>
> b
> I am tireing of this, I need this stuff to be stored on reliable media, and
> I wonder if it is possible to make an ISO from a floppy, burn it to other
> media and have the installation seeing it as the floppy. I ask this since
> the Windows Installers typically refers to CD drives as the [A:] drive and
> assumes it can only do this if the CD is originally built from a floppy ISO.
>
> Any thoughts and comments will be appreciated. I wouldn't mind having to
> dump the RAID right now, but I need the SATA drivers very bad - it's just
> ironic that they are coupled up together.
>
>
> Tony. . .


 
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Tony Sperling
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2006
Thank you, Rob!

> Maybe your floppy drives are having trouble reading data from old/worn
> floppy diskettes. Have you checked them lately?


I have checked it, in-so-far as having diskettes fail in one system while
being good on the other (until that drive decided to go under-cover), also
neither the drives nor the diskettes are very old, while I am aware this all
leaves plenty of room for strange behavior.


> I'm also not too sure that they have feelings.


No, maybe not in the literal sense, but things are made to work and if you
don't use them they have a way of getting even.

>
> About your floppy to ISO... This sounds a bit crazy, but for a regular
> CD which holds 700 MB, it would take 486 (estimated) floppy drives to
> fill a CD


Ah, but you don't have to fill upp the whole CD - it used to be quite
normal way to produce a bootable CD to simply burn a ISO from a bootable
floppy and then add your material - this would also explain why the Windows
Installer asks you to remove any discs from the A: drive when it wants to
re-boot - while you are using nothing but CD's.

But I am uncertain if this behavior is exclusive to when booting - I wish to
know if any floppy ISO burned to CD would be interpreted by the system as
being on a actual floppy, even if not being booted from that drive?

> Is A: that important?


Well, I think it is iteresting that the system at this stage cannot identify
where the material it is installing is located, and it would be interesting
to know if I (we. . .) could make use of this to store that kind of stuff in
a more reliable way, as the SATA drivers are critical.


Tony. . .



 
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John Barnes
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2006
You could try blowing the dust out and check the connections at both the
mobo and drive. Also over the years, I have found that floppies can be
tempermental about reading diskettes written on other machines. New floppy
drives are now less than $10 so you could buy one and share it. If I
remember, Charlie only plugs his in for installs. Keep it in a sealed
plastic bag and remember to visit is once in a while. They do have
feelings.


"Tony Sperling" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Thank you, Rob!
>
>> Maybe your floppy drives are having trouble reading data from old/worn
>> floppy diskettes. Have you checked them lately?

>
> I have checked it, in-so-far as having diskettes fail in one system while
> being good on the other (until that drive decided to go under-cover), also
> neither the drives nor the diskettes are very old, while I am aware this
> all
> leaves plenty of room for strange behavior.
>
>
>> I'm also not too sure that they have feelings.

>
> No, maybe not in the literal sense, but things are made to work and if you
> don't use them they have a way of getting even.
>
>>
>> About your floppy to ISO... This sounds a bit crazy, but for a regular
>> CD which holds 700 MB, it would take 486 (estimated) floppy drives to
>> fill a CD

>
> Ah, but you don't have to fill upp the whole CD - it used to be quite
> normal way to produce a bootable CD to simply burn a ISO from a bootable
> floppy and then add your material - this would also explain why the
> Windows
> Installer asks you to remove any discs from the A: drive when it wants to
> re-boot - while you are using nothing but CD's.
>
> But I am uncertain if this behavior is exclusive to when booting - I wish
> to
> know if any floppy ISO burned to CD would be interpreted by the system as
> being on a actual floppy, even if not being booted from that drive?
>
>> Is A: that important?

>
> Well, I think it is iteresting that the system at this stage cannot
> identify
> where the material it is installing is located, and it would be
> interesting
> to know if I (we. . .) could make use of this to store that kind of stuff
> in
> a more reliable way, as the SATA drivers are critical.
>
>
> Tony. . .
>
>
>



 
Reply With Quote
 
Tony Sperling
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2006
Yes, good points - 'tempermental' is the word! Feelings or not, at least
they do seem to have intimate awareness of concepts such as 'calendars' and
'office hours'.

Do you know why the Insstaller prefers to treat the CD drive as drive A


Tony. . .


"John Barnes" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%23Q%(E-Mail Removed)...
> You could try blowing the dust out and check the connections at both the
> mobo and drive. Also over the years, I have found that floppies can be
> tempermental about reading diskettes written on other machines. New

floppy
> drives are now less than $10 so you could buy one and share it. If I
> remember, Charlie only plugs his in for installs. Keep it in a sealed
> plastic bag and remember to visit is once in a while. They do have
> feelings.
>
>
> "Tony Sperling" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Thank you, Rob!
> >
> >> Maybe your floppy drives are having trouble reading data from old/worn
> >> floppy diskettes. Have you checked them lately?

> >
> > I have checked it, in-so-far as having diskettes fail in one system

while
> > being good on the other (until that drive decided to go under-cover),

also
> > neither the drives nor the diskettes are very old, while I am aware this
> > all
> > leaves plenty of room for strange behavior.
> >
> >
> >> I'm also not too sure that they have feelings.

> >
> > No, maybe not in the literal sense, but things are made to work and if

you
> > don't use them they have a way of getting even.
> >
> >>
> >> About your floppy to ISO... This sounds a bit crazy, but for a regular
> >> CD which holds 700 MB, it would take 486 (estimated) floppy drives to
> >> fill a CD

> >
> > Ah, but you don't have to fill upp the whole CD - it used to be quite
> > normal way to produce a bootable CD to simply burn a ISO from a bootable
> > floppy and then add your material - this would also explain why the
> > Windows
> > Installer asks you to remove any discs from the A: drive when it wants

to
> > re-boot - while you are using nothing but CD's.
> >
> > But I am uncertain if this behavior is exclusive to when booting - I

wish
> > to
> > know if any floppy ISO burned to CD would be interpreted by the system

as
> > being on a actual floppy, even if not being booted from that drive?
> >
> >> Is A: that important?

> >
> > Well, I think it is iteresting that the system at this stage cannot
> > identify
> > where the material it is installing is located, and it would be
> > interesting
> > to know if I (we. . .) could make use of this to store that kind of

stuff
> > in
> > a more reliable way, as the SATA drivers are critical.
> >
> >
> > Tony. . .
> >
> >
> >

>
>



 
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Aaron Kelley
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2006
Yes, some bootable CD-ROMs actually boot a floppy disk image. This leads to
your A: drive being the contents of the disk image when you boot, and you
can access your regular floppy drive as B:.

And yes, it's possible to make a bootable CD from your floppy disk. I've
done this before to make custom DOS start-up CDs or custom Win9x install
CDs.

There are a number of programs that you can use to do this. Nero Burning
ROM, if you select a "CD-ROM (Boot)" project, has the option to read your
floppy drive and use that as the boot image. You can then add as many files
as you want to the CD, but they will show up on the *CD-ROM* and not on the
A: floppy drive that you get when you boot (and your fake floppy disk will
need to load CD-ROM drivers for you to have access to them).

- Aaron

"Tony Sperling" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Yes, good points - 'tempermental' is the word! Feelings or not, at least
> they do seem to have intimate awareness of concepts such as 'calendars'
> and
> 'office hours'.
>
> Do you know why the Insstaller prefers to treat the CD drive as drive A
>
>
> Tony. . .
>
>
> "John Barnes" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%23Q%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> You could try blowing the dust out and check the connections at both the
>> mobo and drive. Also over the years, I have found that floppies can be
>> tempermental about reading diskettes written on other machines. New

> floppy
>> drives are now less than $10 so you could buy one and share it. If I
>> remember, Charlie only plugs his in for installs. Keep it in a sealed
>> plastic bag and remember to visit is once in a while. They do have
>> feelings.
>>
>>
>> "Tony Sperling" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > Thank you, Rob!
>> >
>> >> Maybe your floppy drives are having trouble reading data from old/worn
>> >> floppy diskettes. Have you checked them lately?
>> >
>> > I have checked it, in-so-far as having diskettes fail in one system

> while
>> > being good on the other (until that drive decided to go under-cover),

> also
>> > neither the drives nor the diskettes are very old, while I am aware
>> > this
>> > all
>> > leaves plenty of room for strange behavior.
>> >
>> >
>> >> I'm also not too sure that they have feelings.
>> >
>> > No, maybe not in the literal sense, but things are made to work and if

> you
>> > don't use them they have a way of getting even.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> About your floppy to ISO... This sounds a bit crazy, but for a regular
>> >> CD which holds 700 MB, it would take 486 (estimated) floppy drives to
>> >> fill a CD
>> >
>> > Ah, but you don't have to fill upp the whole CD - it used to be quite
>> > normal way to produce a bootable CD to simply burn a ISO from a
>> > bootable
>> > floppy and then add your material - this would also explain why the
>> > Windows
>> > Installer asks you to remove any discs from the A: drive when it wants

> to
>> > re-boot - while you are using nothing but CD's.
>> >
>> > But I am uncertain if this behavior is exclusive to when booting - I

> wish
>> > to
>> > know if any floppy ISO burned to CD would be interpreted by the system

> as
>> > being on a actual floppy, even if not being booted from that drive?
>> >
>> >> Is A: that important?
>> >
>> > Well, I think it is iteresting that the system at this stage cannot
>> > identify
>> > where the material it is installing is located, and it would be
>> > interesting
>> > to know if I (we. . .) could make use of this to store that kind of

> stuff
>> > in
>> > a more reliable way, as the SATA drivers are critical.
>> >
>> >
>> > Tony. . .
>> >
>> >
>> >

>>
>>

>
>



 
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Dominic Payer
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2006
Check for a BIOS update. Sometimes the BIOS does not report devices
correctly.

The drivers will have to be on a real floppy. A floppy image on a CD will
show up as a CD - the device it is actually on.

An external USB floppy drive can be kept dust free in a bag when not in use.
This will appear as a standard floppy drive if your BIOS can be configured
to accept it.



"Tony Sperling" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:OJqOE%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi, all.
>
> a
> I have two desktop machines running at the moment, both are having floppy
> drives that are rarely used. Perhaps the infrequent activity is making
> them
> depressed, because now that I need them - one never finishes reading a
> floppy before timing out, or alternatively claims that the file system
> isn't
> recognised. That one has just been sitting there, sulking for some time
> now,
> putting it in the other machine showed the diskette to be allright. Now,
> though, that drive suddenly isn't displayed at all in the filemanager, but
> it does show up in the BIOS setup.
>
> We've had questions on floppy booting, but I need it now for the SATA/RAID
> drivers.
>
> b
> I am tireing of this, I need this stuff to be stored on reliable media,
> and
> I wonder if it is possible to make an ISO from a floppy, burn it to other
> media and have the installation seeing it as the floppy. I ask this since
> the Windows Installers typically refers to CD drives as the [A:] drive and
> assumes it can only do this if the CD is originally built from a floppy
> ISO.
>
> Any thoughts and comments will be appreciated. I wouldn't mind having to
> dump the RAID right now, but I need the SATA drivers very bad - it's just
> ironic that they are coupled up together.
>
>
> Tony. . .
>
>



 
Reply With Quote
 
Charlie Russel - MVP
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2006
Tony -
There are a couple of likely causes for the problems, of which dirt and
tired floppies are the two most common. My technique for floppy drives is:
1.) Vacuum the drive thoroughly. Suck all those dust bunnies out!
2.) Insert a floppy into it, and format, using the /u switch. (IOW, do
it from the command prompt.)
3.) Create my SATA/RAID driver disk.
4.) Plug the whole mess into the machine I'm building.

I have two floppy drives I keep around - one a USB floppy that I know
supports booting on most systems, and a regular "internal" one. I keep both
in zip lock bags when I don't need them on a shelf in the office with my
spare, old, too small to be very useful SCSI drives. (I dig those SCSI
drives all out and plug them in when I need to do an example multi-drive
array for writing about configuring Windows Server arrays. )


--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64


Tony Sperling wrote:
> Hi, all.
>
> a
> I have two desktop machines running at the moment, both are having floppy
> drives that are rarely used. Perhaps the infrequent activity is making
> them depressed, because now that I need them - one never finishes reading
> a floppy before timing out, or alternatively claims that the file system
> isn't recognised. That one has just been sitting there, sulking for some
> time now, putting it in the other machine showed the diskette to be
> allright. Now, though, that drive suddenly isn't displayed at all in the
> filemanager, but it does show up in the BIOS setup.
>
> We've had questions on floppy booting, but I need it now for the SATA/RAID
> drivers.
>
> b
> I am tireing of this, I need this stuff to be stored on reliable media,
> and I wonder if it is possible to make an ISO from a floppy, burn it to
> other media and have the installation seeing it as the floppy. I ask this
> since the Windows Installers typically refers to CD drives as the [A:]
> drive and assumes it can only do this if the CD is originally built from
> a floppy ISO.
>
> Any thoughts and comments will be appreciated. I wouldn't mind having to
> dump the RAID right now, but I need the SATA drivers very bad - it's just
> ironic that they are coupled up together.
>
>
> Tony. . .



 
Reply With Quote
 
Tony Sperling
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2006
So, this means that if a driver fits onto the original floppy, it could
actually do the job in this way? The SATA driver won't, I believe, but -
yes, this makes sense.

Thanks a lot!

Tony. . .


"Aaron Kelley" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Yes, some bootable CD-ROMs actually boot a floppy disk image. This leads

to
> your A: drive being the contents of the disk image when you boot, and you
> can access your regular floppy drive as B:.
>
> And yes, it's possible to make a bootable CD from your floppy disk. I've
> done this before to make custom DOS start-up CDs or custom Win9x install
> CDs.
>
> There are a number of programs that you can use to do this. Nero Burning
> ROM, if you select a "CD-ROM (Boot)" project, has the option to read your
> floppy drive and use that as the boot image. You can then add as many

files
> as you want to the CD, but they will show up on the *CD-ROM* and not on

the
> A: floppy drive that you get when you boot (and your fake floppy disk will
> need to load CD-ROM drivers for you to have access to them).
>
> - Aaron
>
> "Tony Sperling" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Yes, good points - 'tempermental' is the word! Feelings or not, at least
> > they do seem to have intimate awareness of concepts such as 'calendars'
> > and
> > 'office hours'.
> >
> > Do you know why the Insstaller prefers to treat the CD drive as drive

A
> >
> >
> > Tony. . .
> >
> >
> > "John Barnes" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:%23Q%(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> You could try blowing the dust out and check the connections at both

the
> >> mobo and drive. Also over the years, I have found that floppies can be
> >> tempermental about reading diskettes written on other machines. New

> > floppy
> >> drives are now less than $10 so you could buy one and share it. If I
> >> remember, Charlie only plugs his in for installs. Keep it in a sealed
> >> plastic bag and remember to visit is once in a while. They do have
> >> feelings.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Tony Sperling" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> > Thank you, Rob!
> >> >
> >> >> Maybe your floppy drives are having trouble reading data from

old/worn
> >> >> floppy diskettes. Have you checked them lately?
> >> >
> >> > I have checked it, in-so-far as having diskettes fail in one system

> > while
> >> > being good on the other (until that drive decided to go under-cover),

> > also
> >> > neither the drives nor the diskettes are very old, while I am aware
> >> > this
> >> > all
> >> > leaves plenty of room for strange behavior.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I'm also not too sure that they have feelings.
> >> >
> >> > No, maybe not in the literal sense, but things are made to work and

if
> > you
> >> > don't use them they have a way of getting even.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> About your floppy to ISO... This sounds a bit crazy, but for a

regular
> >> >> CD which holds 700 MB, it would take 486 (estimated) floppy drives

to
> >> >> fill a CD
> >> >
> >> > Ah, but you don't have to fill upp the whole CD - it used to be quite
> >> > normal way to produce a bootable CD to simply burn a ISO from a
> >> > bootable
> >> > floppy and then add your material - this would also explain why the
> >> > Windows
> >> > Installer asks you to remove any discs from the A: drive when it

wants
> > to
> >> > re-boot - while you are using nothing but CD's.
> >> >
> >> > But I am uncertain if this behavior is exclusive to when booting - I

> > wish
> >> > to
> >> > know if any floppy ISO burned to CD would be interpreted by the

system
> > as
> >> > being on a actual floppy, even if not being booted from that drive?
> >> >
> >> >> Is A: that important?
> >> >
> >> > Well, I think it is iteresting that the system at this stage cannot
> >> > identify
> >> > where the material it is installing is located, and it would be
> >> > interesting
> >> > to know if I (we. . .) could make use of this to store that kind of

> > stuff
> >> > in
> >> > a more reliable way, as the SATA drivers are critical.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Tony. . .
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>

> >
> >

>
>



 
Reply With Quote
 
Tony Sperling
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2006
Good stuff, Charlie!

USB Floppy it'll be, then.

Reasonable projects are sooo nice!


Tony. . .


"Charlie Russel - MVP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Tony -
> There are a couple of likely causes for the problems, of which dirt

and
> tired floppies are the two most common. My technique for floppy drives is:
> 1.) Vacuum the drive thoroughly. Suck all those dust bunnies out!
> 2.) Insert a floppy into it, and format, using the /u switch. (IOW, do
> it from the command prompt.)
> 3.) Create my SATA/RAID driver disk.
> 4.) Plug the whole mess into the machine I'm building.
>
> I have two floppy drives I keep around - one a USB floppy that I know
> supports booting on most systems, and a regular "internal" one. I keep

both
> in zip lock bags when I don't need them on a shelf in the office with my
> spare, old, too small to be very useful SCSI drives. (I dig those SCSI
> drives all out and plug them in when I need to do an example multi-drive
> array for writing about configuring Windows Server arrays. )
>
>
> --
> Charlie.
> http://msmvps.com/xperts64
>
>
> Tony Sperling wrote:
> > Hi, all.
> >
> > a
> > I have two desktop machines running at the moment, both are having

floppy
> > drives that are rarely used. Perhaps the infrequent activity is making
> > them depressed, because now that I need them - one never finishes

reading
> > a floppy before timing out, or alternatively claims that the file system
> > isn't recognised. That one has just been sitting there, sulking for some
> > time now, putting it in the other machine showed the diskette to be
> > allright. Now, though, that drive suddenly isn't displayed at all in the
> > filemanager, but it does show up in the BIOS setup.
> >
> > We've had questions on floppy booting, but I need it now for the

SATA/RAID
> > drivers.
> >
> > b
> > I am tireing of this, I need this stuff to be stored on reliable media,
> > and I wonder if it is possible to make an ISO from a floppy, burn it to
> > other media and have the installation seeing it as the floppy. I ask

this
> > since the Windows Installers typically refers to CD drives as the [A:]
> > drive and assumes it can only do this if the CD is originally built from
> > a floppy ISO.
> >
> > Any thoughts and comments will be appreciated. I wouldn't mind having to
> > dump the RAID right now, but I need the SATA drivers very bad - it's

just
> > ironic that they are coupled up together.
> >
> >
> > Tony. . .

>
>



 
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