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OT: Bootcamps

 
 
Kline Sphere
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      03-27-2007
>bootcamps have no place in the market for serious professionals
>
>/that is all


now, now, we'll have done of that kinda talk around here. after all
what would your buddy James Carrion have to say

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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kpg
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      03-27-2007
catwalker63 <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> Michael D. Alligood piffled away vaguely:
>
>> I always admired your frankness!
>>

> Don't call him Frank. That's not his name.


Shirley you jest?
 
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=?Utf-8?B?SmltIEFuZGVyc29u?=
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      03-27-2007
"Nevertheless I'm still don't see the need for boot camps"
--

A potential benefit of a boot camp (although I haven't attended any
personally) is the same as certification: exposure to a breadth of subject
matter within an area of technology. Most people (I know this is my
experience) in their daily jobs become very knowledgeable about certain areas
of technology they work with a lot, but rarely are knowledgeable about the
entire range of topics surrounding a technology. Certification forces one to
have some level of knowledge about all the relevant topics surrounding the
subject matter and boot camps condense that into a short period of time to
make it practical for professionals to attend and more likely for candidate
to remember the material for the tests.

How well the material is retained after the boot camp/tests is another
matter and would be interesting to know.

Jim Anderson, MCSD
Consultant
Columbus, Ohio

---

"Kline Sphere" wrote:

> >Excellent point. Although for those "experienced I.T. professionals",
> >there should be the option for accelerated learning available -- whether
> >it be CLCs or bootcamps. But the latter falls into the category of
> >knowing the technology and learning the new technology associated with a
> >new release (e.g. Windows Server 2000 to Windows Server 2003). But I
> >will agree that the general concept of bootcamps is to "get their money,
> >get them in, and get them out." The concept of accelerated learning is a
> >good one. But it is tarnished by many bootcamps by daggling the
> >certification carrot.

>
> reading the reply by the Rev, made me think about this a bit more. I
> think the Rev made some excellent points, not least: -
>
> I don't give out answers and I don't "teach the test"
> *and*
> my boot camps I provide the Sales Associates with a list of
> prerequisite questions and I review all of the candidates profiles
> before they take my camps
>
> It's a shame all boot camps don't adopted this approach. Nevertheless
> I'm still don't see the need for boot camps, experience should give
> what you need, the rest, i.e. aspects not in your day to day job role,
> can be researched. Still, everyone to their own.
>
> I stress again I'm totally in favor of instructor led training, just
> can't see how you can teach all the topics required to two weeks and
> remember there are many more 'topics' not covered in the exams.
>
> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
>

 
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=?Utf-8?B?SmltIEFuZGVyc29u?=
Guest
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      03-28-2007
And succinctness.
--
Jim Anderson, MCSD
Consultant
Columbus, Ohio


"Michael D. Alligood" wrote:

> I always admired your frankness!
>
> --
> Michael D. Alligood
> MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
> Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
> CIW Certified Instructor
>
> http://yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom
>
>
>
> "Consultant" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed):
>
> > bootcamps have no place in the market for serious professionals
> >
> > /that is all
> >
> > "Michael D. Alligood" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > >I have written an article concerning my thoughts on the subject of I.T.
> > >bootcamps. It can be found at
> > >http://certguard.com/forums/topic.asp?TID=584. Please feel free to respond
> > >on the CertGuard forum.
> > >
> > > Click on the link, read the article, register as a member, write a
> > > response and JOIN THE FIGHT AGAINST BRAINDUMPS, GUNMEN, AND CHEATERS.
> > > Remember, it is your certifications; protect them.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Michael D. Alligood
> > > MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
> > > Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
> > > CIW Certified Instructor
> > >
> > > http://yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom
> > >
> > >

>
>

 
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Kline Sphere
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      03-28-2007
>A potential benefit of a boot camp (although I haven't attended any
>personally) is the same as certification: exposure to a breadth of subject
>matter within an area of technology.


at a basic level perhaps. these type of exams do prove the taker as
the real world experience, imho this is the problem with these type of
exams.

> Most people (I know this is my
>experience) in their daily jobs become very knowledgeable about certain areas
>of technology they work with a lot, but rarely are knowledgeable about the
>entire range of topics surrounding a technology. Certification forces one to
>have some level of knowledge about all the relevant topics surrounding the
>subject matter and boot camps condense that into a short period of time to
>make it practical for professionals to attend and more likely for candidate
>to remember the material for the tests.


my point is simple. if you're an experienced professional who uses the
product(s) on a day to day basis, you will already understand many of
the exam topics. thus, for such people it would easy to research the
topics which you do not use on a day to day basis, so for such people
there should be no need for 'boot camps' whose only purpose is to get
you through the exams. There is far more in the 'real world' than is
covered in these exams.

These type of Certification do not force one to
have some level of knowledge about all the relevant topics, because
people can and do cheat either through brain dumps/corrupt 'practice'
test providers or unscrupulous boot camps. the problem here is the
type of exams, it is easy for people to cheat.

>How well the material is retained after the boot camp/tests is another
>matter and would be interesting to know.


from my own experience, in order to pass these type of exams i've had
to study many topics which are not part of my day to day job. my
method of study allowed me to learn far more than was covered in the
exam topics. without question this has allowed me to perform my
various roles in a more proficient manner.

the retention of any information is enhanced if you put that
information to use throughout your life. if you have truly learnt the
subject matter and not just 'learnt' how to 'pick the right answer',
that information will have already been well established in your
brain. Naturally over time you will forget the more finer grained
points but not the overall concept. There are still areas which i
studied at university, that i have never encounter in my working life,
which i can still remember today - almost thirty years later!

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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=?Utf-8?B?ZnJlZGZhcmt3YXRlcg==?=
Guest
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      05-10-2007
And I thought I was reading this for some intelligent information on where I
might go to get some education on certs! What a waste of time! The whole
concept of these groups is to inform, educate, provide insight from
expierenced professionals.

"Kline Sphere" wrote:

> >bootcamps have no place in the market for serious professionals
> >
> >/that is all

>
> now, now, we'll have done of that kinda talk around here. after all
> what would your buddy James Carrion have to say
>
> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
>

 
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Consultant
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      05-10-2007
come back soon!

"fredfarkwater" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> And I thought I was reading this for some intelligent information on where
> I
> might go to get some education on certs! What a waste of time! The whole
> concept of these groups is to inform, educate, provide insight from
> expierenced professionals.
>
> "Kline Sphere" wrote:
>
>> >bootcamps have no place in the market for serious professionals
>> >
>> >/that is all

>>
>> now, now, we'll have done of that kinda talk around here. after all
>> what would your buddy James Carrion have to say
>>
>> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
>>



 
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Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard]
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      05-10-2007
"fredfarkwater" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message news:(E-Mail Removed):

> And I thought I was reading this for some intelligent information on
> where I
> might go to get some education on certs! What a waste of time! The
> whole
> concept of these groups is to inform, educate, provide insight from
> expierenced professionals.
> >


I do not see your original post? What was your question regarding
bootcamps?
--
Michael D. Alligood, MCSA, MCDST
The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
CertGuard - http://www.certguard.com


 
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catwalker63
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      05-10-2007
Consultant piffled away vaguely:
>
> "fredfarkwater" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> And I thought I was reading this for some intelligent information on where
>> I might go to get some education on certs! What a waste of time! The whole
>> concept of these groups is to inform, educate, provide insight from
>> expierenced professionals.
>>

> come back soon!


Yes, please do. We are having our half-price stuffed shirt sale.
Everything must go!!
--

Catwalker
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
"I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."

 
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Jonathan Roberts
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      05-11-2007
fredfarkwater wrote:
> And I thought I was reading this for some intelligent information on where I
> might go to get some education on certs! What a waste of time! The whole
> concept of these groups is to inform, educate, provide insight from
> expierenced professionals.


I don't know why they named you that either. Sorry...

--
Jonathan Roberts
MCTS: SQL Server 2005, MCP

Information on MS VHD Images: http://tinyurl.com/y5bozl
Great MS Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/trika/default.aspx
Feedback on 70-431 Exam: http://www.jonathanroberts.eu/?p=6
 
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