CR -- US vs International version

I noticed while enjoying the DTS soundtrack of my Region 3 "Casino
Royale" DVD that the international version runs ten seconds longer
than the US version. R1 time is 144:15, the R3 is 144:25.

I specifically detected some extra shots during the stairwell fight
sequence that are definitely not seen in the US release: an overhead
shot of the first guy impacting the floor 4 stories below; a shot of
the machete-wielding guy's face as Bond smashes it into the yellow
stained glass window; a tight shot of the bad guy's hand grabbing for
Vesper's ankle; a shot of Bond kicking in the bad guy's knee; a
protracted strangulation; and an additional lingering shot of the bad
guy's dead face, his eyes still open. Lo and behold, the intense bits
that represent the MPAA's boundary between a PG-13 and an R rating.

Not sure yet if there are more extra snips anywhere else in the film.

In a sidenote, when Daniel Craig did the talk show tour last autumn,
the film clip broadcast during his interview was a snippet of the
stairwell fight, and I swore from the moment I saw it that they'd used
an uncensored version containing the shots of the over-the-railing
impact and the face being smashed into the window. I caught it during
a rerun and, having already seen the movie 2x in theaters by the time
I saw this, I immediately noticed the extra bits I hadn't seen either
time previously. Now I know I wasn't imagining it.

Discuss...

ste7ens

ste7ens wrote:

> I noticed while enjoying the DTS soundtrack of my Region 3 "Casino
> Royale" DVD that the international version runs ten seconds longer
> than the US version. R1 time is 144:15, the R3 is 144:25.
>
> I specifically detected some extra shots during the stairwell fight
> sequence that are definitely not seen in the US release: an overhead
> shot of the first guy impacting the floor 4 stories below; a shot of
> the machete-wielding guy's face as Bond smashes it into the yellow
> stained glass window; a tight shot of the bad guy's hand grabbing for
> Vesper's ankle; a shot of Bond kicking in the bad guy's knee; a
> protracted strangulation; and an additional lingering shot of the bad
> guy's dead face, his eyes still open. Lo and behold, the intense bits
> that represent the MPAA's boundary between a PG-13 and an R rating.
>
> Not sure yet if there are more extra snips anywhere else in the film.
>
> In a sidenote, when Daniel Craig did the talk show tour last autumn,
> the film clip broadcast during his interview was a snippet of the
> stairwell fight, and I swore from the moment I saw it that they'd used
> an uncensored version containing the shots of the over-the-railing
> impact and the face being smashed into the window. I caught it during
> a rerun and, having already seen the movie 2x in theaters by the time
> I saw this, I immediately noticed the extra bits I hadn't seen either
> time previously. Now I know I wasn't imagining it.
>
> Discuss...

This is being discussed all over the place at the moment. The US R1 DVD
has cuts/substitutions to the opening pre-credit fight and the stairwell
fight. The UK R2 DVD has had one shot removed from the torture sequence
but is otherwise complete. The R3 disc is fully uncut. Results for the R4
Australian and R2 European versions are still to come in.
--
--
--Mac

Mac

"Mac" <> wrote in message ...
> ste7ens wrote:
>
>> I noticed while enjoying the DTS soundtrack of my Region 3 "Casino
>> Royale" DVD that the international version runs ten seconds longer
>> than the US version. R1 time is 144:15, the R3 is 144:25.
>>
>> I specifically detected some extra shots during the stairwell fight
>> sequence that are definitely not seen in the US release: an overhead
>> shot of the first guy impacting the floor 4 stories below; a shot of
>> the machete-wielding guy's face as Bond smashes it into the yellow
>> stained glass window; a tight shot of the bad guy's hand grabbing for
>> Vesper's ankle; a shot of Bond kicking in the bad guy's knee; a
>> protracted strangulation; and an additional lingering shot of the bad
>> guy's dead face, his eyes still open. Lo and behold, the intense bits
>> that represent the MPAA's boundary between a PG-13 and an R rating.
>>
>> Not sure yet if there are more extra snips anywhere else in the film.
>>
>> In a sidenote, when Daniel Craig did the talk show tour last autumn,
>> the film clip broadcast during his interview was a snippet of the
>> stairwell fight, and I swore from the moment I saw it that they'd used
>> an uncensored version containing the shots of the over-the-railing
>> impact and the face being smashed into the window. I caught it during
>> a rerun and, having already seen the movie 2x in theaters by the time
>> I saw this, I immediately noticed the extra bits I hadn't seen either
>> time previously. Now I know I wasn't imagining it.
>>
>> Discuss...
>
> This is being discussed all over the place at the moment. The US R1 DVD
> has cuts/substitutions to the opening pre-credit fight and the stairwell
> fight. The UK R2 DVD has had one shot removed from the torture sequence
> but is otherwise complete. The R3 disc is fully uncut. Results for the R4
> Australian and R2 European versions are still to come in.

I recall an article about the film's release in China that censors had
approved a completely uncut version of the film there, which most ironicly
wasn't the case with the version released in the U.S. No sure about Europe.

Larry

Larry G

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:22:08 -0700, Larry G wrote:
>
> I recall an article about the film's release in China that censors had
> approved a completely uncut version of the film there

It was approved for theatrical screening, but it wasn't unchanged. Dame
Judy Dench had to change one of her lines:

http://commanderbond.net/article/4067

So if you thought the UK/US cuts for violence were silly....

> which most ironicly wasn't the case with the version released in the U.S.

The irony is that unlike the changes made in the UK and China, the US cuts
were completely voluntary and made in order for the film to earn a PG-13
instead of an R. In Hong Kong, where the uncut R3 DVD hails from, the film
earned the equivilent of an PG-13 rating.

> No sure about Europe.

The UK had a mandatory cut made. Other European countries are typically
more lax, but it's possible another country's censors wanted this or that
bit taken out to meet their standards.

-Jay

Jay G.

> Discuss...

Honestly, who cares?

I'm a big 007 fan and all, but saying "hey there's 2.5 seconds of
additional stairwell shot in the International print!" might be
interesting in a "hey that's interesting, but really who gives a ****"
kind of way, that's about it.

Lukan

Jay G. wrote:


>> No sure about Europe.
>
> The UK had a mandatory cut made. Other European countries are
> typically more lax, but it's possible another country's censors
> wanted this or that bit taken out to meet their standards.

The UK cut was made, like the US cuts, to obtain a rating (12A). Had
the film been left intact, it would have been given a 15.
--
--
--Mac

Mac

At 11:59pm -0400, 03/21/07, Jay G. <> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:22:08 -0700, Larry G wrote:

>>I recall an article about the film's release in China that censors had
>>approved a completely uncut version of the film there

>It was approved for theatrical screening, but it wasn't unchanged. Dame
>Judy Dench had to change one of her lines:

>http://commanderbond.net/article/4067

>So if you thought the UK/US cuts for violence were silly....

The Chinese people have been kept in the dark about the Cold War? Didn't the
censors understand that was a dig at the Russians?

>>which most ironicly wasn't the case with the version released in the U.S.

>The irony is that unlike the changes made in the UK and China, the US cuts
>were completely voluntary and made in order for the film to earn a PG-13
>instead of an R.

While the US has no Board of Film Censors, cuts negotiated with MPAA CARA to
get a more favorable rating are in no way voluntary. Movie censorship exists
in the US because the movie studios are scared to death that it would be
imposed upon them by Congress. There have been movies shut down in some
places in the United States for alleged obscenity and pornography and, at
times, because local authorities were trying to appease the Church.

Think it can't happen? Congress does censor television and radio, been
cracking down on obscenities uttered on radio for years. The fines have
gotten punitively high since the attack of the giant breast.

Very few movie theaters are willing to show unrated movies in the United
States. All theaters that belong to NATO (and some that don't) enforce
CARA's recommended audience restrictions. R rated movies tend not to be
blockbusters.

Despite decades of movie censorship, Hollywood has failed to avoid scandals
like the original Fatty Arbuckle scandal that was the original excuse.

>In Hong Kong, where the uncut R3 DVD hails from, the film
>earned the equivilent of an PG-13 rating.

Interesting.

>> No sure about Europe.

>The UK had a mandatory cut made. Other European countries are typically
>more lax, but it's possible another country's censors wanted this or that
>bit taken out to meet their standards.

Adam H. Kerman

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 07:19:24 -0000, Mac wrote:

> Jay G. wrote:
>
>>> No sure about Europe.
>>
>> The UK had a mandatory cut made. Other European countries are
>> typically more lax, but it's possible another country's censors
>> wanted this or that bit taken out to meet their standards.
>
> The UK cut was made, like the US cuts, to obtain a rating (12A). Had
> the film been left intact, it would have been given a 15.

My bad. I was thinking this might've been one of those situations where
the BBFC requested something cut before they'd approve the film to be
released at all.

-Jay

Jay G.

Lukan wrote:
>> Discuss...
>
> Honestly, who cares?

You should care when it is only done to appease some censors.

Mark Jones

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:32:07 -0500, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> At 11:59pm -0400, 03/21/07, Jay G. <> wrote:
>>On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:22:08 -0700, Larry G wrote:
>
>>http://commanderbond.net/article/4067
>
> The Chinese people have been kept in the dark about the Cold War? Didn't the
> censors understand that was a dig at the Russians?

It was a dig a *communist* Russia.

>>The US cuts
>>were completely voluntary and made in order for the film to earn a PG-13
>>instead of an R.
>
> While the US has no Board of Film Censors, cuts negotiated with MPAA CARA to
> get a more favorable rating are in no way voluntary.

Yes they are. The producers could've accepted the R rating the MPAA first
gave the film, but they chose to go for a lower rating.

> Movie censorship exists
> in the US because the movie studios are scared to death that it would be
> imposed upon them by Congress.

If there is really film "censorship" in the US, it's a voluntary censorship
agreed upon by the studios and driven by the free market.

> There have been movies shut down in some
> places in the United States for alleged obscenity and pornography and, at
> times, because local authorities were trying to appease the Church.

That didn't happen here though, and was highly unlikely to happen even if
the film had be released uncut with an R rating.

> Think it can't happen? Congress does censor television and radio, been
> cracking down on obscenities uttered on radio for years. The fines have
> gotten punitively high since the attack of the giant breast.

Congress doesn't supervise broadcast TV and radio, the FCC does. The FCC
can do this because they control and license out the radio waves broadcast
TV and radio use. Cable and Satellite TV and satellite ratio aren't under
any such restrictions though.

> Very few movie theaters are willing to show unrated movies in the United
> States.

Not really applicable here, since an uncut Casino Royale would've been
rated R instead of NC-17 or unrated. It's still a voluntary choice by the
theater owners what they chose to show, and a voluntary choice by film
producers to change the rating of their film in order to get it in more
theaters.

> All theaters that belong to NATO (and some that don't) enforce
> CARA's recommended audience restrictions. R rated movies tend not to be
> blockbusters.

Right, that's why 300 has been the top movie for 2 straight weekends.

> Despite decades of movie censorship, Hollywood has failed to avoid scandals
> like the original Fatty Arbuckle scandal that was the original excuse.

Film ratings weren't enacted until 1968. The Hayes Code before that wasn't
enforced until 1934, 13 years after the Fatty Arbuckle scandal. And I
don't see what any of this has to do with the cuts made to Casino Royale.

-Jay

Jay G.