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Why is Firefox so Popular?

 
 
businessman@nomail.com
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      03-19-2007
We all need an alternative to IE, at least the older versions of IE,
since I have heard that IE 7 is a big improvement, but have not yet
tried it.

However I have struggled with Firefox for several years and find
myself often using IE, because FF just does not want to cooperate.

I am not intending to bash FF or start a flame war. I am only being
honest, and in doing so, I going to be honest and say that FF is one
of the worst browsers I have ever used.

On the positive side, I will say that it's pretty stable and does not
crash real often, unlike other browsers I have tried. Another plus,
is that its small and dont require a new harddrive to install it,
unlike IE. Beyond that, I think FF is a pain in the ass to use. I
have never had a browser that begs for plugins as often as FF. I get
so sick and tired of "missing plugin" errors. Then when I click on the
link to download the plugin, I'd estimate they dont exist or wont
install about 80% of the time. Worse yet, FF never clearly states
what plugin it needs. This is one of those times that I get so darn
fed up with the whole ordeal that I copy the URL to IE and close FF.

My next major complaint is the settings, where I am required to type
"about:config", and go thru this gigantic list of code that only a
computer geek might understand. Give me a break. Why cant FF have an
understandable menu for settings like IE and other browsers? That
"about:config" list reminds me of the days when my computer was run by
Dos and I had to memorize a few hundred commands to make a program
work. Or should I compare it to the Unix codes that I had to type
back in those days to access some of the BBS's. I can not think of
any other software since the 1980's that uses such an outdated method
to adjust the settings.

Then there are the plugins, which are made by any tom dick or harry
and half of them dont even work. OK, it's a good thing to allow
everyone to make plugins, but why cant Firefox themselves offer those
that are common and offer the ones that work. For example, i can not
stand Flash content in webpages. Yeah, I enjoy a few videos from time
to time, but not using flash for advertising, or for the actual web
page itself. Anyhow, why cant FF include this commonly desired plugin
right with the browser? It seems that everytime I change the version
of FF, I need a different flash blocker and far too many dont work at
all. This is just one of many plugin problems that I have
encountered, and everytime I upgrade the FF version, it seems I have
to spend weeks or more upgrading the plugins. I really dont want or
need the hassle.

Then comes page rendering. FF often does not render pages correctly.
Yeah, I have read more than one comment that says IE is not the
standard, and IE has their own ways of rendering pages that is not the
"standard". Fine and dandy, but it seems that most webpages are
designed for IE, so why cant FF have a one click button that makes
pages render according to IE methods? A simple button to toggle from
the "generic" web code to that used to render pages in IE would solve
this, but FF seems to avoid these needs.

FF keeps adding updated versions quite regularly, but they never
address the issues and complaints that many of us seem to complain
about over and over and over.

There are other browsers, such as Avant Browser, that dont have all
these problems and issues. I am not promoting Avant, and I am aware
that Avant runs under IE and is likely as much of a security risk as
using IE itself (I am not sure about this). But Avant contains all
the bells and whistles that IE lacks, and is much easier to use than
FF. It's just the security issues that prevent me from using Avant as
my main browser.

The bottom line is this: How did FF become as popular as it did, when
it is such a pain in the butt to use? Most of the people I know are
not computer geeks, but they use FF and are always complaining about
the missing plugin errors and other stuff. Is it just the lack of any
other decent (and safe) browser that makes so many people use FF, or
what? I just dont understand.....

I hope someone that works with the development of FF reads this
message. And when they do, I sure hope they start to make FF more
user friendly. The basic browser is a great start to being something
good, but it needs a big reworking in both the settings and the
plugins department. Rather than adding more useless bloat to the next
version, how about adding these basic needs.

Jerry
 
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Peter.Potamus.the.Purple.Hippo@gmail.com
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-19-2007
On Mar 18, 10:05 pm, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> We all need an alternative to IE, at least the older versions of IE,
> since I have heard that IE 7 is a big improvement, but have not yet
> tried it.
>
> However I have struggled with Firefox for several years and find
> myself often using IE, because FF just does not want to cooperate.
>
> I am not intending to bash FF or start a flame war. I am only being
> honest, and in doing so, I going to be honest and say that FF is one
> of the worst browsers I have ever used.
>


for me IE is the worst browser I have ever used.

> On the positive side, I will say that it's pretty stable and does not
> crash real often, unlike other browsers I have tried. Another plus,
> is that its small and dont require a new harddrive to install it,
> unlike IE. Beyond that, I think FF is a pain in the ass to use. I
> have never had a browser that begs for plugins as often as FF. I get
> so sick and tired of "missing plugin" errors.


Really, I sure don't get that.

> Then when I click on the
> link to download the plugin, I'd estimate they dont exist or wont
> install about 80% of the time.


Interesting. I've never had that problem

> Worse yet, FF never clearly states
> what plugin it needs. This is one of those times that I get so darn
> fed up with the whole ordeal that I copy the URL to IE and close FF.
>
> My next major complaint is the settings, where I am required to type
> "about:config", and go thru this gigantic list of code that only a
> computer geek might understand. Give me a break.


I would have to agree with you on that, but most posters will tell you
what to look for so it shouldn't be that hard to find what you want.

> Why cant FF have an
> understandable menu for settings like IE


It does! Where!?

> and other browsers?


what other browsers?

> That
> "about:config" list reminds me of the days when my computer was run by
> Dos and I had to memorize a few hundred commands to make a program
> work. Or should I compare it to the Unix codes that I had to type
> back in those days to access some of the BBS's. I can not think of
> any other software since the 1980's that uses such an outdated method
> to adjust the settings.
>
> Then there are the plugins, which are made by any tom dick or harry
> and half of them dont even work.


you mean extensions

> OK, it's a good thing to allow
> everyone to make plugins, but why cant Firefox themselves offer those
> that are common and offer the ones that work.


The FF people are only interested in developing the program. They
have nothing to do with extensions. Those are developed by third
parties. If you're going to install them, then you do so at your own
risk.

It just like IE, if you want to install the yahoo toolbar or the
google toolbar, then you're doing so at your own risk. MS has nothing
to do with those extensions.

> For example, i can not
> stand Flash content in webpages. Yeah, I enjoy a few videos from time
> to time, but not using flash for advertising, or for the actual web
> page itself. Anyhow, why cant FF include this commonly desired plugin
> right with the browser?


I've already explained aboved why!

> It seems that everytime I change the version
> of FF, I need a different flash blocker and far too many dont work at
> all.


Most extension developers will wait until the final version of FF
comes out. This is because FF may decide to change the coding at the
last minute. When that happens then the extension coding would have
to change aswell. Thats why they wait.

> This is just one of many plugin problems that I have
> encountered, and everytime I upgrade the FF version, it seems I have
> to spend weeks or more upgrading the plugins. I really dont want or
> need the hassle.
>


WEEKS!!! A few minutes. And if you don't need it, then why did you
install it in the first place.

> Then comes page rendering. FF often does not render pages correctly.
> Yeah, I have read more than one comment that says IE is not the
> standard, and IE has their own ways of rendering pages that is not the
> "standard". Fine and dandy, but it seems that most webpages are
> designed for IE, so why cant FF have a one click button that makes
> pages render according to IE methods? A simple button to toggle from
> the "generic" web code to that used to render pages in IE would solve
> this, but FF seems to avoid these needs.
>


I would have to agree with you on that. But then, if I can't view it,
then I'm not all that interested in that site. I'll move on.

> FF keeps adding updated versions quite regularly, but they never
> address the issues and complaints that many of us seem to complain
> about over and over and over.
>
> There are other browsers, such as Avant Browser, that dont have all
> these problems and issues.


The reason for that is Avant is IE in disguise. Thats why it doesn't
have the problems. If it was a browser all by itself, then it would
have problems.

> I am not promoting Avant, and I am aware
> that Avant runs under IE and is likely as much of a security risk as
> using IE itself (I am not sure about this). But Avant contains all
> the bells and whistles that IE lacks, and is much easier to use than
> FF. It's just the security issues that prevent me from using Avant as
> my main browser.
>
> The bottom line is this: How did FF become as popular as it did, when
> it is such a pain in the butt to use?


lots of people don't have the problems you're having. I for one
don't. It works the way I want it. And I have only the extensions I
want.

> Most of the people I know are
> not computer geeks, but they use FF and are always complaining about
> the missing plugin errors and other stuff. Is it just the lack of any
> other decent (and safe) browser that makes so many people use FF, or
> what? I just dont understand.....
>
> I hope someone that works with the development of FF reads this
> message. And when they do, I sure hope they start to make FF more
> user friendly.


no, you're in the wrong group for that. They don't follow this group.

> The basic browser is a great start to being something
> good, but it needs a big reworking in both the settings and the
> plugins department. Rather than adding more useless bloat to the next
> version, how about adding these basic needs.
>
> Jerry



 
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businessman@nomail.com
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-19-2007
On 18 Mar 2007 23:39:09 -0700,
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>On Mar 18, 10:05 pm, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> We all need an alternative to IE, at least the older versions of IE,
>> since I have heard that IE 7 is a big improvement, but have not yet
>> tried it.
>>
>> However I have struggled with Firefox for several years and find
>> myself often using IE, because FF just does not want to cooperate.
>>
>> I am not intending to bash FF or start a flame war. I am only being
>> honest, and in doing so, I going to be honest and say that FF is one
>> of the worst browsers I have ever used.
>>

>
>for me IE is the worst browser I have ever used.
>


As far as security issues, I agree, but for ease of use, I like it.
Some of the more geekier types seem to want more complicated software,
but myself, I just want to go to websites and not do anything else.

Once I have installed a piece of any software, and taken care of the
initial settings, I prefer to not have to do any further messing with
the software itself, and just use it. It's about the same as moving
into a new house. When I first move in, I expect to paint the walls
and install some new cabinets and hardware and stuff like that. Once
I am settled in, I dont want to have to do any further repairs other
than changing a faucet washer or loose hinge screw from time to time.

FF reminds me of a house that is never finished and needs constant
repair. Worse yet, about the time i finally get it working fairly
well, it's upgrade time and time to start all over again, which means
it always in a state of disrepair.

>> On the positive side, I will say that it's pretty stable and does not
>> crash real often, unlike other browsers I have tried. Another plus,
>> is that its small and dont require a new harddrive to install it,


>> "about:config" list reminds me of the days when my computer was run by
>> Dos and I had to memorize a few hundred commands to make a program
>> work. Or should I compare it to the Unix codes that I had to type
>> back in those days to access some of the BBS's. I can not think of
>> any other software since the 1980's that uses such an outdated method
>> to adjust the settings.
>>
>> Then there are the plugins, which are made by any tom dick or harry
>> and half of them dont even work.

>
>you mean extensions


Either !!!

>> OK, it's a good thing to allow
>> everyone to make plugins, but why cant Firefox themselves offer those
>> that are common and offer the ones that work.

>
>The FF people are only interested in developing the program. They
>have nothing to do with extensions. Those are developed by third
>parties. If you're going to install them, then you do so at your own
>risk.
>

Which if you ask me is one of their biggest faults. FF should include
those commonly used extensions such as popup stoppers, flash blockers,
and the like. Everyone want these things, and if not, they can be
turned on an off. Why do we have to download al this separately?

>It just like IE, if you want to install the yahoo toolbar or the
>google toolbar, then you're doing so at your own risk. MS has nothing
>to do with those extensions.
>

Yeah, but thats a different matter. That is specific to Yahoo users
and many of us dont want that stuff. I for one wont use them. I WANT
popup stoppers and flash blockers just to prevent junk like toolbars
getting installed, and that is what I most have against IE, it allows
things like that without my knowledge.

>> This is just one of many plugin problems that I have
>> encountered, and everytime I upgrade the FF version, it seems I have
>> to spend weeks or more upgrading the plugins. I really dont want or
>> need the hassle.
>>

>
>WEEKS!!! A few minutes. And if you don't need it, then why did you
>install it in the first place.


Well, it seems FF never has all the plugins it needs. I have Foxit
reader installed, IE will open a PDF in it. FF wont.


>> Then comes page rendering. FF often does not render pages correctly.
>> Yeah, I have read more than one comment that says IE is not the
>> standard, and IE has their own ways of rendering pages that is not the
>> "standard". Fine and dandy, but it seems that most webpages are
>> designed for IE, so why cant FF have a one click button that makes
>> pages render according to IE methods? A simple button to toggle from
>> the "generic" web code to that used to render pages in IE would solve
>> this, but FF seems to avoid these needs.
>>

>
>I would have to agree with you on that. But then, if I can't view it,
>then I'm not all that interested in that site. I'll move on.


While some web pages are just plain defective, most seem to work
fairly well in IE, but far too many dont work in FF. When I find
sites that are actually DEFECTIVE. I move on too, but if I find a site
of interest I want to use that site, and far too often taht means
copying the URL to an IE page. After awhile that gets tiring and I
find myself just using IE more than FF.

>
>> FF keeps adding updated versions quite regularly, but they never
>> address the issues and complaints that many of us seem to complain
>> about over and over and over.
>>
>> There are other browsers, such as Avant Browser, that dont have all
>> these problems and issues.

>
>The reason for that is Avant is IE in disguise. Thats why it doesn't
>have the problems. If it was a browser all by itself, then it would
>have problems.
>


Yeah, i know it's a shell for IE, but I must admit I really like the
way it works. It works like IE but has tabs and much more to offer
for options than IE. The reason I dont use it all the time is because
I am concerned about security issues. Since it's running under IE, I
assume there are issues, but so far I am not positive about that.
Maybe Avant has more protection built in? I'm not sure????



>> I hope someone that works with the development of FF reads this
>> message. And when they do, I sure hope they start to make FF more
>> user friendly.

>
>no, you're in the wrong group for that. They don't follow this group.
>

Where should I post this then? I'd be happy to do so. I am not
trying to cut down FF, but I do believe that the developers should get
user feedback both pos and neg.

>> The basic browser is a great start to being something
>> good, but it needs a big reworking in both the settings and the
>> plugins department. Rather than adding more useless bloat to the next
>> version, how about adding these basic needs.
>>
>> Jerry

>


 
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Peter.Potamus.the.Purple.Hippo@gmail.com
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-19-2007
On Mar 19, 10:27 am, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Where should I post this then? I'd be happy to do so. I am not
> trying to cut down FF, but I do believe that the developers should get
> user feedback both pos and neg.


I have to agree. FF isn't the easiest program to learn and use. But
neither was windows when you first learned how to use it.

The best newsgroup is mozilla.support.firefox which is on the
news.mozilla.org server. This is a user support group. People
helping other people. They're not developers of the program.
Programmers may monitor the group but they don't answer questions.

Just post everything that you've mentioned in the last 2 postings with
me.

Warning: you may get a lot of backlash from the others. They might
tell you you're an idiot, crazy, and completely stupid. Especially
for using Avant. Don't let that deter you.


 
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John Thompson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-19-2007
On 2007-03-19, (E-Mail Removed) <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I am not intending to bash FF or start a flame war. I am only being
> honest, and in doing so, I going to be honest and say that FF is one
> of the worst browsers I have ever used.


Maybe we should turn the question around and ask "Why is IE so popular,
given its dismal security record, vast resource requirements, poor
standards compliance, lack of legacy support, and so on?"

> Then comes page rendering. FF often does not render pages correctly.
> Yeah, I have read more than one comment that says IE is not the
> standard, and IE has their own ways of rendering pages that is not the
> "standard". Fine and dandy, but it seems that most webpages are
> designed for IE, so why cant FF have a one click button that makes
> pages render according to IE methods?


Are all the IE specific rendering tricks fully documented and available
under an open enough license that projects such as Firefox can actually
use them in this manner? Do they avoid Windows-only APIs that would
break Firefox's cross platform support? Based on history I suspect the
answer is "no" in both cases.

> A simple button to toggle from the "generic" web code to that used to
> render pages in IE would solve this, but FF seems to avoid these
> needs.


There is an "IE-View" extension that purports to do something like this,
although since I don't use Windows I can vouch for its effectiveness.
And as I understand it, Netscape-8 is based on Firefox code, but can use
either the native Gecko rendering engine or IE's renderning engine as
appropriate. Once again, Windows only, so I have no personal experience
with it.

> FF keeps adding updated versions quite regularly, but they never
> address the issues and complaints that many of us seem to complain
> about over and over and over.
>
> There are other browsers, such as Avant Browser, that dont have all
> these problems and issues.


Yes, Avant is basically just a new front-end for IE, not an entirely
separate browser.

> I hope someone that works with the development of FF reads this
> message. And when they do, I sure hope they start to make FF more
> user friendly. The basic browser is a great start to being something
> good, but it needs a big reworking in both the settings and the
> plugins department. Rather than adding more useless bloat to the next
> version, how about adding these basic needs.


I don't work on development of Firefox, just a satisfied user. But I
hope I've clarified some of the issues for you in a way that helps you
see why they might not be resolved as easily as you might think.

--

John ((E-Mail Removed))
 
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History Fan
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-19-2007
I can only explain my reason for choosing Firefox: it is incredibly
customizable. It is like a piece of clay you can shape to whatever figure
you want. I can do tasks on the Internet with Firefox that are virtually
impossible with Internet Explorer.


 
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Peter.Potamus.the.Purple.Hippo@gmail.com
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-19-2007
On Mar 19, 2:44 pm, John Thompson
> Maybe we should turn the question around and ask "Why is IE so popular,


because its the only one that is prepackaged with windows. And its
the only one that is forced upon the users. From there, it comes the
only one people know about, until someone tells them there's something
else.

 
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businessman@nomail.com
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-20-2007
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:19:28 -0400, "History Fan"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I can only explain my reason for choosing Firefox: it is incredibly
>customizable. It is like a piece of clay you can shape to whatever figure
>you want. I can do tasks on the Internet with Firefox that are virtually
>impossible with Internet Explorer.
>


Why has no one at least come up with some sort of easy to use "click
and go" menu to replace the "about:config" mess. At least make it
into a something with icons that explains the settings in common
english with an explanation. I am no computer geek, but I am fairly
computer literate, and that "about:config" list is worse than all the
old BBS software that required pages of settings.
 
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Moz Champion (Dan)
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-20-2007
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:19:28 -0400, "History Fan"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> I can only explain my reason for choosing Firefox: it is incredibly
>> customizable. It is like a piece of clay you can shape to whatever figure
>> you want. I can do tasks on the Internet with Firefox that are virtually
>> impossible with Internet Explorer.
>>

>
> Why has no one at least come up with some sort of easy to use "click
> and go" menu to replace the "about:config" mess. At least make it
> into a something with icons that explains the settings in common
> english with an explanation. I am no computer geek, but I am fairly
> computer literate, and that "about:config" list is worse than all the
> old BBS software that required pages of settings.



The 'about:config' was never meant for the average user.
You really have to know what you are doing when using about:config, so
simply follow directions if you want/need to change a setting there.

And it really is simple to use in any case. Double click the setting you
want to change, set the new value. If you dont know what the setting
means, then dont change it.
 
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elaich
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-20-2007
(E-Mail Removed) wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:19:28 -0400, "History Fan"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> I can only explain my reason for choosing Firefox: it is
>> incredibly
>>customizable. It is like a piece of clay you can shape to whatever
>>figure you want. I can do tasks on the Internet with Firefox that are
>>virtually impossible with Internet Explorer.
>>

>
> Why has no one at least come up with some sort of easy to use "click
> and go" menu to replace the "about:config" mess. At least make it
> into a something with icons that explains the settings in common
> english with an explanation. I am no computer geek, but I am fairly
> computer literate, and that "about:config" list is worse than all the
> old BBS software that required pages of settings.


Most of the settings a user needs to change are right there under Tools>
Options. Exactly what you claim isn't there.

--
A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of the message.
Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?
 
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