Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > Computer Support > PC won't power on

Reply
Thread Tools

PC won't power on

 
 
Leythos
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2007
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:02:44 -0700, w_tom wrote:

> On Mar 28, 9:33 pm, Leythos <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> I almost never read an entire thread that you are part of because you take
>> the long way around everything and waste soooo much time.

>
> You never read that shotgunning tried and failed because you are too
> busy posting rather than learning facts - ie how electricity works.
>
> Apparently Leythos has been caught lynig so often about 'magic
> fuses' and 'invisible surge protectors' that he sits on the internet
> waiting to defend himself - rather than learn basic technology. Each
> post gets a immediate response from him - 20 minutes and faster. He
> must sit on the computer all day long learning from internet myths -
> rather than learn how electricity works from text books. No wonder he
> cannot walk down to Home Depot to see prices. No wonder he has no
> design experience. No wonder his entire knowledge base is from
> internet myths. It explains why he shotguns rather than do as
> advocated on CSI - 'follow the evidence'.


You know, you really have no clue, and your constant frabication of BS is
almost as amazing as the best of trolls I've seen.

I've said that if you spend days learning how to use a meter, what
voltages should be present on the PC in the different states, and 99% of
the time a simple shot-gun method can resolve it a LOT quicker than having
to find a store to purchase a multimeter, learning how to read it,
learning what the signal levels should be, etc...

In 99% of the cases, if you shotgun a PSU it fixes the problem, in the
rest, if you disconnect the devices you've narrowed it down to a device or
the motherboard in about 10 minutes - and if it's the motherboard/CPU your
multimeter can't tell you which one it is.

So, you saying that I'm wrong with the above?

--
Want to know what PCBUTTS1 is really about?
*** WARNING - this links contains foul/pornographic content of an
abusive nature created by PCBUTTS1 and still hosted on his public
website ***
http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/leythos.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
lobo
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-29-2007
<BIG SNIP>
Way too much back and forth going on here about this subject. Bottom
line.....did she ever actually find out what the problem was?


 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
alice
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-03-2007
On Mar 27, 6:07 pm, "w_tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Mar 27, 6:03 pm, "alice" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > I see. Thanks for sticking with me.
> > Here are the numbers...of course they all drop to 0 eventually as the
> > power quite completely.
> > Purple 5.02
> > Green 5.01 / .11
> > Gray 5.02
> > Orange 3.34
> > Red 5.4
> > Yellow 11.xx (it jumps around alot

>
> One voltage is too high. Not yet high enough to damage motherboard
> and peripherals. But approaching levels that would cause a power
> supply to shut down - to only restart by powering cycling.
>
> Voltage on red wire is 5.4 - max must be 5.25. If yellow is also
> dropping sometimes below 11.7, then this implies the CPU power supply
> might have trouble providing stable power to the CPU.
>
> Question is why 12 volts is so unstable - and therefore cause the
> excessively high 5 volts. Well, this problem started with actions
> back at the CPU heatsink. Adjacent to that heatsink is a CPU power
> supply powered by that 12 volts. Did something happen to that CPU
> adjacent power supply to cause bad 12 volts? Or has main power supply
> simply failed - maybe because it was always marginal (defective but
> not yet causing failure)?
>
> A visual inspection can now concentrate on the adjacent power supply
> area of power supply chips and capacitors (cylinders standing
> upright). The tops of those capacitors (cylinders) must be perfectly
> flat - aluminum does not bulge above capacitor's plastic covering.
> Nothing should be bent over - no incidental metal contact. And
> nothing should be so hot (when power is on) as to cause pain. Nothing
> in that area will harm human life; touching is safe.
>
> Knowing where to inspect with scrutiny, and if having seen no
> obvious defects, well, we move on to see what will make that 12
> volts stable and 5 volts normal. We have only two unknowns left.
> Either a 12 volt load on motherboard or the 12 volt supply.
>
> This test is done only if you are comfortable with removing the CPU
> and heatsink assembly as one. Generally, CPU socket has something (ie
> a lever) that clamps to hundreds of CPU pins. Once that lever is
> 'released', then CPU almost falls out. Carefully note the CPU pin
> orientation because CPU must be put back in the exact same position.
> This removal is done with AC power cord disconnected (again so that
> the purple wire 5 volts does not exist).
>
> With CPU removed, then restore power cord, and power on system (that
> has no CPU). What happens to yellow and red wire voltages? If those
> voltages remain unstable, then something on motherboard (ie CPU
> adjacent power supply) has failed. Of course what those numbers are
> and do will be more informative.
>
> If not comfortable with removing CPU, then learn what happens with
> voltages from that other power supply. If that other supply also has
> unstable 12 volts (yellow wire) and higher 5 volts (red wire), then
> again, problem is probably in that CPU adjacent power supply.
>
> From either test, if the CPU adjacent supply is suspect and if
> nothing is bent over 'touching', then motherboard failure is suspect.
> We have a good idea where the failure is AND we cannot fix it - only
> replace it. CPU is most likely just fine.
>
> Hopefully, that unstable 12 volts is due to the load - not due to a
> marginal and getting worse power supply 12 volts. This problem
> started when you were working around that CPU area - removed the
> heatsink. That is the region that consumes so much 12 volts (yellow
> wire currents).
>
> It would be nice to know that power supply voltages were good when
> the system was first purchased - that voltages were in spec when
> system was working and accessing all peripherals. Then we knew with
> certainty that the power supply did not have a marginal 12 volt
> output. Unfortunately most computer techs have little appreciation
> for the meter. However we would know far more either with CPU
> removed or with voltage numbers from a second power supply. Removing
> the CPU is a better test because a removed CPU turns off the adjacent
> power supply causes near zero power draw from power supply.
>
> Looking forward to learning what you disicover. Hopefully it is
> only a bent over component adjacent to the power supply - a least
> expensive solution.


OK, with the CPU removed, the yellow reading is 11.91 and stable, the
red 5.14 and stable (and the power never turns off).
There is one component/cylinder right next to the CPU that -might- not
be perfectly flat on top, but it's hard to tell.

 
Reply With Quote
 
alice
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-03-2007
On Apr 3, 2:56 pm, "alice" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Mar 27, 6:07 pm, "w_tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 27, 6:03 pm, "alice" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> > > I see. Thanks for sticking with me.
> > > Here are the numbers...of course they all drop to 0 eventually as the
> > > power quite completely.
> > > Purple 5.02
> > > Green 5.01 / .11
> > > Gray 5.02
> > > Orange 3.34
> > > Red 5.4
> > > Yellow 11.xx (it jumps around alot

>
> > One voltage is too high. Not yet high enough to damage motherboard
> > and peripherals. But approaching levels that would cause a power
> > supply to shut down - to only restart by powering cycling.

>
> > Voltage on red wire is 5.4 - max must be 5.25. If yellow is also
> > dropping sometimes below 11.7, then this implies the CPU power supply
> > might have trouble providing stable power to the CPU.

>
> > Question is why 12 volts is so unstable - and therefore cause the
> > excessively high 5 volts. Well, this problem started with actions
> > back at the CPU heatsink. Adjacent to that heatsink is a CPU power
> > supply powered by that 12 volts. Did something happen to that CPU
> > adjacent power supply to cause bad 12 volts? Or has main power supply
> > simply failed - maybe because it was always marginal (defective but
> > not yet causing failure)?

>
> > A visual inspection can now concentrate on the adjacent power supply
> > area of power supply chips and capacitors (cylinders standing
> > upright). The tops of those capacitors (cylinders) must be perfectly
> > flat - aluminum does not bulge above capacitor's plastic covering.
> > Nothing should be bent over - no incidental metal contact. And
> > nothing should be so hot (when power is on) as to cause pain. Nothing
> > in that area will harm human life; touching is safe.

>
> > Knowing where to inspect with scrutiny, and if having seen no
> > obvious defects, well, we move on to see what will make that 12
> > volts stable and 5 volts normal. We have only two unknowns left.
> > Either a 12 volt load on motherboard or the 12 volt supply.

>
> > This test is done only if you are comfortable with removing the CPU
> > and heatsink assembly as one. Generally, CPU socket has something (ie
> > a lever) that clamps to hundreds of CPU pins. Once that lever is
> > 'released', then CPU almost falls out. Carefully note the CPU pin
> > orientation because CPU must be put back in the exact same position.
> > This removal is done with AC power cord disconnected (again so that
> > the purple wire 5 volts does not exist).

>
> > With CPU removed, then restore power cord, and power on system (that
> > has no CPU). What happens to yellow and red wire voltages? If those
> > voltages remain unstable, then something on motherboard (ie CPU
> > adjacent power supply) has failed. Of course what those numbers are
> > and do will be more informative.

>
> > If not comfortable with removing CPU, then learn what happens with
> > voltages from that other power supply. If that other supply also has
> > unstable 12 volts (yellow wire) and higher 5 volts (red wire), then
> > again, problem is probably in that CPU adjacent power supply.

>
> > From either test, if the CPU adjacent supply is suspect and if
> > nothing is bent over 'touching', then motherboard failure is suspect.
> > We have a good idea where the failure is AND we cannot fix it - only
> > replace it. CPU is most likely just fine.

>
> > Hopefully, that unstable 12 volts is due to the load - not due to a
> > marginal and getting worse power supply 12 volts. This problem
> > started when you were working around that CPU area - removed the
> > heatsink. That is the region that consumes so much 12 volts (yellow
> > wire currents).

>
> > It would be nice to know that power supply voltages were good when
> > the system was first purchased - that voltages were in spec when
> > system was working and accessing all peripherals. Then we knew with
> > certainty that the power supply did not have a marginal 12 volt
> > output. Unfortunately most computer techs have little appreciation
> > for the meter. However we would know far more either with CPU
> > removed or with voltage numbers from a second power supply. Removing
> > the CPU is a better test because a removed CPU turns off the adjacent
> > power supply causes near zero power draw from power supply.

>
> > Looking forward to learning what you disicover. Hopefully it is
> > only a bent over component adjacent to the power supply - a least
> > expensive solution.

>
> OK, with the CPU removed, the yellow reading is 11.91 and stable, the
> red 5.14 and stable (and the power never turns off).
> There is one component/cylinder right next to the CPU that -might- not
> be perfectly flat on top, but it's hard to tell.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


This time, when I put the heatsink back on, I added some paste. And
guess what? It now turns on and stays on.
Now if I can get it to not overheat and shutdown, which was the
original problem.

 
Reply With Quote
 
Leythos
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2007
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:03:18 -0700, alice wrote:
>
> This time, when I put the heatsink back on, I added some paste. And
> guess what? It now turns on and stays on.
> Now if I can get it to not overheat and shutdown, which was the
> original problem.


And to think, sorry for being sarcastic, the multimeter didn't help one
bit and could never have indicated a improperly installed heat-sink, but,
allowing the PC to cool, then checking the BIOS, would have given an
indication of a temperature problem.

To properly install HSP (heat sink paste) you need a small razor knife,
you clean both surfaces with something like alcohol and a very clean
cloth, something that doesn't leave anything behind. Next, you place a
very small amount of HSP on the CPU and using a razor knife you spread it
around - don't do it on the heat sink itself - the HS surface is often
larger than the mating surface of the CPU.

Now, with a single motion, install the HS on the CPU, don't push it
around, don't grind it, don't move it more than needed. If you've done it
right you should not seen an excess paste - the past is designed to ONLY
FILL THE SURFACE IMPERFECATIONS - to much past acts as a insulator and
will still let the CPU overheat.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/ins_route_step2amdas5.html

Check the above link, pick the CPU that matches your description, check to
make sure that you installed the HSP properly - it really doesn't matter
what the CPU looks like (intel or amd) the method for proper HSP is the
same.

--
Want to know what PCBUTTS1 is really about?
*** WARNING - this links contains foul/pornographic content of an
abusive nature created by PCBUTTS1 and still hosted on his public
website ***
http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/leythos.htm
http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/bughunter.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
w_tom
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-04-2007
On Apr 3, 7:03 pm, "alice" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> This time, when I put the heatsink back on, I added some paste. And
> guess what? It now turns on and stays on.
> Now if I can get it to not overheat and shutdown, which was the
> original problem


Your numbers completely eliminated the power supply system as
defective. And those numbers took you to where the problem was.
Therefore you also did not waste money on a new motherboard, new CPU,
and who knows what else.

I don't remember if you posted it as an AMD or Intel CPU - which was
relevant information. Based upon results, it probably was an AMD.
However reinstalling of everything may have corrected a mechanical
problem.

BTW, - caution: thermal paste must never ooze out the side if not
mentioned elsewhere. Too much thermal paste, indicated by oozing, can
cause future computer problems.

Is that capacitor starting to bulge? Well, remember what it looks
like and view it again in a few months. If the bulging has started,
then increased bulging will be obvious later and probably also in
other adjacent capacitors. How to identify another problem before it
creates failures.

Only if necessary, those capacitors can be replaced for about $1 per
capacitor by someone with a good soldering iron; if bulging does
increase and if you don't want to scrap the entire motherboard.

Good to hear problem solved without spending money on unnecessary
parts. You now know more about fixing computers than many 'experts'
in some computer stores - how to 'follow the evidence'. Good luck.

 
Reply With Quote
 
alice
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-06-2007
On Apr 3, 11:07 pm, "w_tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Apr 3, 7:03 pm, "alice" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > This time, when I put the heatsink back on, I added some paste. And
> > guess what? It now turns on and stays on.
> > Now if I can get it to not overheat and shutdown, which was the
> > original problem

>
> Your numbers completely eliminated the power supply system as
> defective. And those numbers took you to where the problem was.
> Therefore you also did not waste money on a new motherboard, new CPU,
> and who knows what else.
>
> I don't remember if you posted it as an AMD or Intel CPU - which was
> relevant information. Based upon results, it probably was an AMD.
> However reinstalling of everything may have corrected a mechanical
> problem.
>
> BTW, - caution: thermal paste must never ooze out the side if not
> mentioned elsewhere. Too much thermal paste, indicated by oozing, can
> cause future computer problems.
>
> Is that capacitor starting to bulge? Well, remember what it looks
> like and view it again in a few months. If the bulging has started,
> then increased bulging will be obvious later and probably also in
> other adjacent capacitors. How to identify another problem before it
> creates failures.
>
> Only if necessary, those capacitors can be replaced for about $1 per
> capacitor by someone with a good soldering iron; if bulging does
> increase and if you don't want to scrap the entire motherboard.
>
> Good to hear problem solved without spending money on unnecessary
> parts. You now know more about fixing computers than many 'experts'
> in some computer stores - how to 'follow the evidence'. Good luck.


Well, I'm still not gettting very far. I'm able to get to the BIOS
setup and see that it is not overheating. But when I try to boot up on
the HD, I just get the windows 'loading your settings' screen, and it
hangs there forever. The keyboard light is on, but the mouse light is
not, which I think it usually is a that point. I am able to boot from
a floppy, but I'm not sure how to get the HD to fully boot at this
point. Before all this happened, the HD worked just fine.

 
Reply With Quote
 
w_tom
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      04-06-2007
On Apr 5, 11:22 pm, "alike" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Well, I'm still not gettting very far. I'm able to get to the BIOS
> setup and see that it is not overheating. But when I try to boot up on
> the HD, I just get the windows 'loading your settings' screen, and it
> hangs there forever. The keyboard light is on, but the mouse light is
> not, which I think it usually is a that point. I am able to boot from
> a floppy, but I'm not sure how to get the HD to fully boot at this
> point. Before all this happened, the HD worked just fine


Some basic hardware is now working. Does software on motherboard
complete and Windows start to load? Well repeatedly pressing F8 (or
maybe F5) key will provide a list of options. One should permit each
file that is loaded to be reported as it loads. Simply look at the
last file reported - the one that does not complete - to see where
Windows is failing to load. This should point to that problem
location.

That assumes BIOS does start a Windows boot loading.

Another useful fact may be from hardware diagnostic from that disk
drive manufacturer- loaded for free from their web site. These
diagnostics sometimes may be cryptic. But the diagnostic will report
what the CPU sees on disk drive. Are cables connected - and maybe 50
other possible problems? Do any of these problems exist? That disk
drive hardware diagnostics would confirm disk drive (and interface)
integrity so that we can move on to other suspects.

Additional information are BIOS settings for that disk drive as
stored in the CMOS. Unfortunately we don't know what those setting
once were. Hopefully the BIOS is set to automatically select the
correct disk drive configuration settings such as numbers of
cylinders, sectors, heads, and the selection for how all those are
read. At minimum, record and report what those CMOS settings are for
the hard drive.

And of course, does the system boot from some other peripheral - CD-
Rom. Does Windows boot from the CD? If so, repair tools exist on the
CD. But we don't yet dare start fixing Windows until we know hardware
is good AND CMOS settings make sense. Otherwise irreparable damage
may result.

If computer boots from floppy - what exactly boots? Can you load
DOS? If so, then a command line program can read disk drive without
damage. Enter-
dir c:*.*
to see files on hard drive. If so, we have another test to confirm
disk drive hardware is working. Enter:
dir c:\*.* /s or
dir c:\*.* /s /p
to see if all of drive can be read. This same command can be entered
from Command Prompt if system can boot Windows from CD. Again, see
what does and does not work before trying to fix anything.

Numerous ways to 'follow the evidence' - to see why computer is not
booting before replacing or changing anything.

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High Power 560Watt Power Supply HPC-560-A12C @ ThinkComputers.org Silverstrand Front Page News 0 02-21-2006 10:25 PM
AOpen Prima Power AO700-12ALN 700W Power Supply Review Silverstrand Front Page News 5 08-29-2005 11:38 AM
HEC Ace Power 580UB 580Watt power supply Silverstrand Front Page News 0 07-23-2005 03:04 PM
Determine power requirements system... possible problem with power supply? Willem van der Berg Computer Support 4 10-03-2004 10:40 PM
Looking for SATA power cable to IDE power cable adapter Jack B. Pollack Computer Support 3 02-12-2004 08:50 PM



Advertisments