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PC won't power on

 
 
w_tom
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      03-14-2007
On Mar 13, 9:43 pm, "alice" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I've never used a multimeter before, is there anything else I should
> know to avoid hurting myself


It's sold even in K-mart. The most complex part might be having the
clerk make correct change. Simply set the dial to what you want to
measure (DC volts, AC volts, DC current, continuity, etc), touch the
leads, then read the number. Or read the directions.

Anything inside the computer that could hurt you is inside a box
with big labels saying things like (No Servicable Parts). Simple.
Don't open that box that has big warning labels. Of course before you
ever put a hand inside any computer, first touch the chassis. A hand
that does not first touch the chassis .... well you can't hear all
integrated circuits screaming when you hand has static electric
charges. You are the big threat to them. They are no threat to you.

Meanwhile, another most dangerous thing. Whenever installing or
disconnecting anything, then AC power plug was be disconnected from
the wall receptacle. Just another reason why you may be a biggest
threat inside that chassis.

Be amazed how simple voltages are measured and how many 'computer
assemblers' fear the multimeter. Be amazed how quickly we can isolate
problems with but a multimeter and minimal electrical knowledge.

 
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Walter Mautner
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      03-14-2007
alice wrote:

....
> I forgot to mention, it's an AMD Athlon.


Unfortunately Athlons have no real selfprotection against overheating, at
least not one reacting fast enough when there is (almost) no contact to a
heatsink.
When you remove the heatsink (recommended procedure to clean it, would be
just unscrewing the fan on top, and use a can of "compressed air" to blow
out the dust from between the fins) you will have a uneven surface due to
the previously attached heatpad or paste which will have hardened. Since it
is almost impossible to reattach the heatsink in exactly the same way once
again, you will have a weak contact due to that - so even no conducting
paste is better than leaving the old one.
Btw., 80 deg .... I assume Celsius? ... is pretty high for a athlon.
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w_tom
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      03-14-2007
On Mar 14, 12:12 am, "PeeCee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> ...
> You'll note I don't mention power supply, your description of what happened
> makes it highly unlikely it is power supply related.
> ...
>
> If the minimum configuration does 'not' start then you will have to arrange
> to try the CPU in another known good motherboard - or- take it to a tech
> with the skills to diagnose hardware problems.


Unfortunately that list of potential problems is long exponentially
longer because shotgunning was used. Power supply removed.
Components disconnected. Most everything may have been changed.
Therefore the integrity of the entire 'system' must be confirmed. One
item that can cause everything else to appear failed or intermittent
and that is no longer 'known good' is the power supply 'system'. A
power supply is the foundation of the entire computer. Any problems
here can appear as failures elsewhere. We need to determine what is
good since most everything is now suspect. Therefore start with the
power supply. First establish what is good and move out from there.

Due to shotgunning, even that power supply is now on the list of
potential problems.

 
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w_tom
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      03-14-2007
On Mar 14, 12:12 am, "PeeCee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> ...
> You'll note I don't mention power supply, your description of what happened
> makes it highly unlikely it is power supply related.
> ...
>
> If the minimum configuration does 'not' start then you will have to arrange
> to try the CPU in another known good motherboard - or- take it to a tech
> with the skills to diagnose hardware problems.


Unfortunately that list of potential problems is long exponentially
longer because shotgunning was used. Power supply removed.
Components disconnected. Most everything may have been changed.
Therefore the integrity of the entire 'system' must be confirmed. One
item that can cause everything else to appear failed or intermittent
and that is no longer 'known good' is the power supply 'system'. A
power supply is the foundation of the entire computer. Any problems
here can appear as failures elsewhere. We need to determine what is
good since most everything is now suspect. Therefore start with the
power supply. First establish what is good and move out from there.

Due to shotgunning, even that power supply is now on the list of
potential problems.

 
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alice
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      03-15-2007
On Mar 14, 3:37 pm, "w_tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Mar 14, 12:12 am, "PeeCee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > ...
> > You'll note I don't mention power supply, your description of what happened
> > makes it highly unlikely it is power supply related.
> > ...

>
> > If the minimum configuration does 'not' start then you will have to arrange
> > to try the CPU in another known good motherboard - or- take it to a tech
> > with the skills to diagnose hardware problems.

>
> Unfortunately that list of potential problems is long exponentially
> longer because shotgunning was used. Power supply removed.
> Components disconnected. Most everything may have been changed.
> Therefore the integrity of the entire 'system' must be confirmed. One
> item that can cause everything else to appear failed or intermittent
> and that is no longer 'known good' is the power supply 'system'. A
> power supply is the foundation of the entire computer. Any problems
> here can appear as failures elsewhere. We need to determine what is
> good since most everything is now suspect. Therefore start with the
> power supply. First establish what is good and move out from there.
>
> Due to shotgunning, even that power supply is now on the list of
> potential problems.


So you mean that because the power supply was taken out, then put back
in, that it may have become damaged?

 
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PeeCee
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      03-15-2007

"alice" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> On Mar 14, 3:37 pm, "w_tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On Mar 14, 12:12 am, "PeeCee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>> > ...
>> > You'll note I don't mention power supply, your description of what
>> > happened
>> > makes it highly unlikely it is power supply related.
>> > ...

>>
>> > If the minimum configuration does 'not' start then you will have to
>> > arrange
>> > to try the CPU in another known good motherboard - or- take it to a
>> > tech
>> > with the skills to diagnose hardware problems.

>>
>> Unfortunately that list of potential problems is long exponentially
>> longer because shotgunning was used. Power supply removed.
>> Components disconnected. Most everything may have been changed.
>> Therefore the integrity of the entire 'system' must be confirmed. One
>> item that can cause everything else to appear failed or intermittent
>> and that is no longer 'known good' is the power supply 'system'. A
>> power supply is the foundation of the entire computer. Any problems
>> here can appear as failures elsewhere. We need to determine what is
>> good since most everything is now suspect. Therefore start with the
>> power supply. First establish what is good and move out from there.
>>
>> Due to shotgunning, even that power supply is now on the list of
>> potential problems.

>
> So you mean that because the power supply was taken out, then put back
> in, that it may have become damaged?
>


Alice

'Anything' is a possibility with computers.
May I suggest you go with my 'minimum' configuration test, trying it using
both power supplies.

The reason it is suggested to measure the voltages with a digital multimeter
is to eliminate the power supplies as the cause of the non start problems.
Despite their best intentions, some of the advice offered on newsgroups such
as this can lead you up blind alleys.
My reading of the thread is someone 'fixed' a computer with similar symptoms
as yours by replacing the power supply, ergo this 'must' be what is wrong
with your computer.
In your case (as I said above) my reading is somewhat different to this.
Who you believe is up to you..

However at the end of the day you may have to take the machine to a suitably
experienced Tech if you are not able to determine the cause.

Best
Paul.



 
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Cub
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      03-15-2007

"alice" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>I just opened up my PC case to take off the CPU fan and heatsink,
> cleaned it, put it back on, and now the whole thing will not power on.
> The power light comes on for about 5 seconds, and the CPU fan starts
> to spin, then it just turns off.
> The reason I cleaned the fan in the first place is because the machine
> was overheating and randomly turning off frequently.
> Is there any thing I can do at this point, and if I need to replace
> parts, what should I start with?
>


The fan should have 3 wires , 2 for power and one for speed sense

If the system can't see the fan spinning ( via the 3rd wire) then the power
will be killed


check the fan cable is

a) connected to the right header on the motherboard , there may be 2 next to
each other

and

b) get a different heatsink fan. you may have damage it


Cub



 
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w_tom
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      03-16-2007
On Mar 14, 8:12 pm, "alice" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> So you mean that because the power supply was taken out, then put back
> in, that it may have become damaged


Pee Cee demonstrated another good reason why shotgunning only
creates problems. However, an old rule from a few generations of
experience: if a problem can be created, then the most innovative
thing in the room will create it - a human. An example of that rule
came from White Sands too many decades ago: "If anything can fail,
then it will fail."

Damage was and has been observed because of swapping parts. For
example, do you know that second power supply contains essential
functions so that motherboard cannot be damaged? That required
function is sometimes missing in discounted power supplies - that
appear to be good. Parts were swapped because you have assumed a
second power supply will not cause damage in another computer. You
don't know. Even a power supply good in one system can act defective
in another. More variables - more unknowns - have been added. Each
'unknown' increases a problem's complexity 'exponentially'.

Why start from scratch to recertify even the power supply 'system'?
Since so much was changed, then almost nothing is known good. To
attack a now exponentially complicated problem, eliminate variables
and unknowns, one at a time. That cannot happen until a meter verifies
a computer's foundation - the power supply 'system'. Not just the
power supply; a 'system'. Did you know of the other 'system' parts?

Currently you are trying to fix things based upon assumptions. If
the second power supply did not fix things, then is the first power
supply good? Of course not.

You have even assumed a conclusion - that I said moving a power
supply might have damaged a power supply. Demonstrated above is that
shotgunning may have even caused other changes. We have not even
considered damage from static electricity. Did you know components
resilient to 15,000 volts can be easily damaged by but a few thousand
volts when cables are disconnected? Once disconnected, much of what
protects electronics completely disappears. You would not even see or
feel that few thousand volt discharge as it destroys more
electronics. Just another in a long list of too many reasons why we
first collect facts before replacing something. Just another reason
why shotgunning may complicate.

Again, let's review history. Your original problem was that machine
was "randomly turning off frequently". So you assumed it must be a
heating problem. Then you assumed the heating must be in CPU. Having
made assumptions, you shotgunned - removed a heatsink assembly. Now
computer does not work at all. You then assumed something completely
unrelated - power supply. Disconnected drive cables. What may have
only been one problem may now be three or four problems because of
assumptions rather than "follow the evidence". Shotgunning created
more problems.

It's a learning experience. But only if you include what was posted
here so that the experience teaches something. Experience without
underlying concepts teaches little.

Get the meter. Discover what is and is not functional before
changing anything more. Do not shotgun.

 
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Leythos
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      03-16-2007
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:15:14 -0700, w_tom wrote:
>
> Get the meter. Discover what is and is not functional before
> changing anything more. Do not shotgun.


By the time they find/buy a meter they could have swapped out the PSU and
been up and running without the cost of a Meter they may never use again.

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http://www.pcbutts1.com/rlk/rlk.htm ,
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alice
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      03-17-2007
On Mar 16, 6:24 am, Leythos <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:15:14 -0700, w_tom wrote:
>
> > Get the meter. Discover what is and is not functional before
> > changing anything more. Do not shotgun.

>
> By the time they find/buy a meter they could have swapped out the PSU and
> been up and running without the cost of a Meter they may never use again.
>


I already have swapped the PSU (ie shotgunning), and that didn't work,
and it does not prove or disprove what is or isn't working.
The above posts are right, only a multimeter can tell me anything at
this point.

> --
> Want to know what PCBUTTS1 is really about?
> *** WARNING - these links contain foul/pornographic content of an
> abusive nature created by PCBUTTS1 and still hosted on his public
> website ***http://www.pcbutts1.com/rlk/rlk.htm,...theasshole.htm
> All while spamming his company website at:http://www.seedsv.com



 
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