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help with network router and cable ISP

 
 
wsotw
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
Hi there,

I need/would like a little bit of help.

A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.
All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear
router on an ordinary lan.

When they were on adsl they used a netgear router with wireless
connection to their laptop. All worked fine.

Now they are with cable and have the webstar modem. Initially they just
plugged the rj45 patch cable into the nic on the laptop and off it
works.

They now want to use the netgear router as a wireless hub. The idea
being that it is just being used as a hub so the connections need no ip
info etc. from the netgear router, but should simply get them from the
webstar by passing through the netgear router hub/wireless lan section.

So..

Without physical connection to internet, the routers wireless connection
was setup and works. The router was configured on IP address
192.168.0.200 with subnet of 255.255.255.0 (the laptop having been given
a static ip for this procedure), the dhcp switched off (I thought that
leaving at the standard private ip of 192.168.0.1 may cause conflicts
with the webstar).

The laptop was then reset to obtain an ip address and server details
automatically, replugged into the webstar and it works.

When the cable from the webstar is plugged into a lan port on the router
and a cable from the computer to a lan port it works fine.

However when we try the wireless connection we get nothing, not even and
ip address assigned to the laptop.

Now when the laptop is connected to the webstar an IP of 82.39.x.x with
a subnet of 255.255.248.0 is given.

So, to me the problem is with the wireless connection. Now, this is the
first time I have dealt with a wireless connection. Does such a
connection simply work on the mac or does it have an ip address before
it will talk to the hub?

If the latter and given that the ip address is not static, can I change
the ip address and subnet of the router, and if so, as I must give a
static ip to the router, what can/do I change them to?

Or is this simply not possible using a wireless connection in this way?

any help/comment would be appreciated


thanks

--
wsotw
 
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g.man
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
are you using the same router that was on adsl
if so thats your problem you need a cable router

"wsotw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi there,
>
> I need/would like a little bit of help.
>
> A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.
> All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
> seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear
> router on an ordinary lan.
>
> When they were on adsl they used a netgear router with wireless
> connection to their laptop. All worked fine.
>
> Now they are with cable and have the webstar modem. Initially they just
> plugged the rj45 patch cable into the nic on the laptop and off it
> works.
>
> They now want to use the netgear router as a wireless hub. The idea
> being that it is just being used as a hub so the connections need no ip
> info etc. from the netgear router, but should simply get them from the
> webstar by passing through the netgear router hub/wireless lan section.
>
> So..
>
> Without physical connection to internet, the routers wireless connection
> was setup and works. The router was configured on IP address
> 192.168.0.200 with subnet of 255.255.255.0 (the laptop having been given
> a static ip for this procedure), the dhcp switched off (I thought that
> leaving at the standard private ip of 192.168.0.1 may cause conflicts
> with the webstar).
>
> The laptop was then reset to obtain an ip address and server details
> automatically, replugged into the webstar and it works.
>
> When the cable from the webstar is plugged into a lan port on the router
> and a cable from the computer to a lan port it works fine.
>
> However when we try the wireless connection we get nothing, not even and
> ip address assigned to the laptop.
>
> Now when the laptop is connected to the webstar an IP of 82.39.x.x with
> a subnet of 255.255.248.0 is given.
>
> So, to me the problem is with the wireless connection. Now, this is the
> first time I have dealt with a wireless connection. Does such a
> connection simply work on the mac or does it have an ip address before
> it will talk to the hub?
>
> If the latter and given that the ip address is not static, can I change
> the ip address and subnet of the router, and if so, as I must give a
> static ip to the router, what can/do I change them to?
>
> Or is this simply not possible using a wireless connection in this way?
>
> any help/comment would be appreciated
>
>
> thanks
>
> --
> wsotw



 
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Gordon
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
g.man wrote:

> are you using the same router that was on adsl
> if so thats your problem you need a cable router


If you read the OP you would have seen that the OP HAS a Cable modem which
he plugs into the router - standard practice.
 
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Desk Rabbit
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
Gordon wrote:
> g.man wrote:
>
>> are you using the same router that was on adsl
>> if so thats your problem you need a cable router

>
> If you read the OP you would have seen that the OP HAS a Cable modem which
> he plugs into the router - standard practice.

And if you had read you would see that the original router was an ADSL
router and the OP is plugging the cable modem into the LAN interface
which will not work.

g.man is right if the OP indeed has a router with a built in ADSL modem
(Thats my definition of an ADSL router).

The OP needs a router with an ethernet WAN port based on the information
given and without the model numbers of the devices in question being given.
 
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wsotw
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Desk Rabbit
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>Gordon wrote:
>> g.man wrote:
>>
>>> are you using the same router that was on adsl
>>> if so thats your problem you need a cable router

>>
>> If you read the OP you would have seen that the OP HAS a Cable modem which
>> he plugs into the router - standard practice.

>And if you had read you would see that the original router was an ADSL
>router and the OP is plugging the cable modem into the LAN interface
>which will not work.
>
>g.man is right if the OP indeed has a router with a built in ADSL modem
>(Thats my definition of an ADSL router).
>
>The OP needs a router with an ethernet WAN port based on the information
>given and without the model numbers of the devices in question being given.


yes it is an adsl router a (dg534 I think) , but I am not and don't want
to use the wan port on it. I simply want to use the hub and wireless
access point of it.

This works if it's connected by an rj45 cat5 cable. it's only when
trying to use the wireless access point that it doesnt work.

The question I suppose is really "Can the Netgear Router be configured
as a Wireless access point only?" and without having to setup ip address
etc. for it.


--
wsotw
 
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why?
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:20:55 +0000, wsotw wrote:

>Hi there,
>
>I need/would like a little bit of help.
>
>A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.


So the IP address looks like Blueyonder. There are quite a few BY
support newsgroups.

Going with the BY theme, you need a Broadband Wireless router.

>All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
>seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear


Wot no model / version?

>router on an ordinary lan.


That would be as a switch on the 4 LAN ports, not as a router then?

>When they were on adsl they used a netgear router with wireless
>connection to their laptop. All worked fine.
>
>Now they are with cable and have the webstar modem. Initially they just
>plugged the rj45 patch cable into the nic on the laptop and off it
>works.


It would. It's designed that way.

>They now want to use the netgear router as a wireless hub. The idea
>being that it is just being used as a hub so the connections need no ip
>info etc. from the netgear router, but should simply get them from the


It doesn't work that way.

>webstar by passing through the netgear router hub/wireless lan section.


If I didn't say so before, it doesn't work that way.

BY can only have 1 device connected to the Webstar, so you can't use the
router in your hub mode. The 1 connected device is the WAN port of the
router.

Webstar RJ45 UTP - to Broadband router WAN port - Router 4 LAN ports to
PCs.

The router gets the BY address details, the 82.x.x.x. IP on it's WAN
interface. The router passes some of the info like DNS to the PCs along
with the router private 192.168.x.x type IP addresses to the PC.

>So..
>
>Without physical connection to internet, the routers wireless connection
>was setup and works. The router was configured on IP address
>192.168.0.200 with subnet of 255.255.255.0 (the laptop having been given
>a static ip for this procedure), the dhcp switched off (I thought that
>leaving at the standard private ip of 192.168.0.1 may cause conflicts
>with the webstar).


No, don't mess with that stuff.

What normally happens, assuming BY again. If the BY cable signal is lost
the Webstar may act as a DHCP server, (that's the way my Surfboards have
worked), but as you can't have multiple devices normally this isn't an
issue. Since you need a router for multiple PCs it's DHCP handles all
that.

>The laptop was then reset to obtain an ip address and server details
>automatically, replugged into the webstar and it works.


It would. It's designed that way. But you said that already.

It's easier to leave the PC always at DHCP, doing that gets an IP
directly from the Webstar or from the router.

>When the cable from the webstar is plugged into a lan port on the router
>and a cable from the computer to a lan port it works fine.


That's just for any hardwired PC, but then you can only use that method
with 1 PC IIRC it's been years since doing that.

>However when we try the wireless connection we get nothing, not even and
>ip address assigned to the laptop.


It's not routing as the Webstar is not connected to the router vis the
WAN port.

>Now when the laptop is connected to the webstar an IP of 82.39.x.x with
>a subnet of 255.255.248.0 is given.


Your point there is? That's just the IISP P settings.

>So, to me the problem is with the wireless connection. Now, this is the
>first time I have dealt with a wireless connection. Does such a
>connection simply work on the mac or does it have an ip address before
>it will talk to the hub?


A wireless IP/MAC works the same as the wired connection. A PC requests
a valid IP via DHCP.

<snip the rest>

Me
 
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wsotw
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, why? <fgrirp*sg
c@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> writes
>
>On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:20:55 +0000, wsotw wrote:
>
>>Hi there,
>>
>>I need/would like a little bit of help.
>>
>>A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.

>
>So the IP address looks like Blueyonder. There are quite a few BY
>support newsgroups.
>
>Going with the BY theme, you need a Broadband Wireless router.
>

were trying to avoid the extra expense of buying another router just to
get a wireless connection when they already have one (albeit in an adsl
router)

>>All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
>>seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear

>
>Wot no model / version?
>


dg834m I think

>>router on an ordinary lan.

>
>That would be as a switch on the 4 LAN ports, not as a router then?
>

yes

>>When they were on adsl they used a netgear router with wireless
>>connection to their laptop. All worked fine.
>>
>>Now they are with cable and have the webstar modem. Initially they just
>>plugged the rj45 patch cable into the nic on the laptop and off it
>>works.

>
>It would. It's designed that way.
>
>>They now want to use the netgear router as a wireless hub. The idea
>>being that it is just being used as a hub so the connections need no ip
>>info etc. from the netgear router, but should simply get them from the

>
>It doesn't work that way.


but it does if a physical wire is used
>
>>webstar by passing through the netgear router hub/wireless lan section.

>
>If I didn't say so before, it doesn't work that way.
>

I know you said that.

>BY can only have 1 device connected to the Webstar, so you can't use the
>router in your hub mode. The 1 connected device is the WAN port of the
>router.
>
>Webstar RJ45 UTP - to Broadband router WAN port - Router 4 LAN ports to
>PCs.
>
>The router gets the BY address details, the 82.x.x.x. IP on it's WAN
>interface. The router passes some of the info like DNS to the PCs along
>with the router private 192.168.x.x type IP addresses to the PC.
>


that's the normal way (even with adsl) fully understand that and have a
friend has that same setup using multiple pc's on his connection.

>>So..
>>
>>Without physical connection to internet, the routers wireless connection
>>was setup and works. The router was configured on IP address
>>192.168.0.200 with subnet of 255.255.255.0 (the laptop having been given
>>a static ip for this procedure), the dhcp switched off (I thought that
>>leaving at the standard private ip of 192.168.0.1 may cause conflicts
>>with the webstar).

>
>No, don't mess with that stuff.
>

not a problem, I didn't realise at the start that the webstar did not
use the private address range

>What normally happens, assuming BY again. If the BY cable signal is lost
>the Webstar may act as a DHCP server, (that's the way my Surfboards have
>worked), but as you can't have multiple devices normally this isn't an
>issue. Since you need a router for multiple PCs it's DHCP handles all
>that.
>

there is only one pc is this setup, it's just that we want to use the
wireless connection (built in to the current router) rather than a
physical one and

>>The laptop was then reset to obtain an ip address and server details
>>automatically, replugged into the webstar and it works.

>
>It would. It's designed that way. But you said that already.
>
>It's easier to leave the PC always at DHCP, doing that gets an IP
>directly from the Webstar or from the router.
>
>>When the cable from the webstar is plugged into a lan port on the router
>>and a cable from the computer to a lan port it works fine.

>
>That's just for any hardwired PC, but then you can only use that method
>with 1 PC IIRC it's been years since doing that.
>
>>However when we try the wireless connection we get nothing, not even and
>>ip address assigned to the laptop.

>
>It's not routing as the Webstar is not connected to the router vis the
>WAN port.
>

and yet when physically attached it does.

>>Now when the laptop is connected to the webstar an IP of 82.39.x.x with
>>a subnet of 255.255.248.0 is given.

>
>Your point there is? That's just the IISP P settings.

just given the details as I had thought about maybe giving the router an
ip address within the same range, but as the address is not static how
do I know which one to give to the router (as it would be static) and of
course you just know that at some point the one I picked would then be
assigned to the webstar/pc.

>
>>So, to me the problem is with the wireless connection. Now, this is the
>>first time I have dealt with a wireless connection. Does such a
>>connection simply work on the mac or does it have an ip address before
>>it will talk to the hub?

>
>A wireless IP/MAC works the same as the wired connection. A PC requests
>a valid IP via DHCP.
>

therefore logic suggests it should work as it works when physically
connected.

this is the one bit I don't understand. simply why the wireless
connection doesn't work when the physical one does.

Ultimately, I think this person is going to have to either put up with
the physical cable or buy a cable router.

The whole reason for this BTW is that Telewest gave her a patch cable to
go from the webstar to her laptop which was a whole half a metre. As
she has no desk/work area (she used to use the wireless connetion and
sit with the laptop on her lap) it's hard to support the laptop in
midair and use it

Thanks for replying



--
wsotw
 
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why?
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:05:54 +0000, wsotw wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, why? <fgrirp*sg
>c@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> writes
>>
>>On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:20:55 +0000, wsotw wrote:
>>
>>>Hi there,
>>>
>>>I need/would like a little bit of help.
>>>
>>>A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.

>>
>>So the IP address looks like Blueyonder. There are quite a few BY
>>support newsgroups.
>>
>>Going with the BY theme, you need a Broadband Wireless router.
>>

>were trying to avoid the extra expense of buying another router just to
>get a wireless connection when they already have one (albeit in an adsl
>router)


It's not an issue of expense it's simply the correct router for the new
connection.

>>>All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
>>>seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear

>>
>>Wot no model / version?
>>

>
>dg834m I think


Better.

>>>router on an ordinary lan.

>>
>>That would be as a switch on the 4 LAN ports, not as a router then?
>>

>yes


Ah isn't guessing fun.

>>>When they were on adsl they used a netgear router with wireless
>>>connection to their laptop. All worked fine.
>>>
>>>Now they are with cable and have the webstar modem. Initially they just
>>>plugged the rj45 patch cable into the nic on the laptop and off it
>>>works.

>>
>>It would. It's designed that way.
>>
>>>They now want to use the netgear router as a wireless hub. The idea
>>>being that it is just being used as a hub so the connections need no ip
>>>info etc. from the netgear router, but should simply get them from the

>>
>>It doesn't work that way.

>
>but it does if a physical wire is used


For 2 or 3 PCs or just the 1? BY accounts unless business or otherwise
are a single DHCP IP. So with 1 PC it works.

>>>webstar by passing through the netgear router hub/wireless lan section.

>>
>>If I didn't say so before, it doesn't work that way.
>>

>I know you said that.


Just making sure.

>
>>BY can only have 1 device connected to the Webstar, so you can't use the
>>router in your hub mode. The 1 connected device is the WAN port of the
>>router.
>>
>>Webstar RJ45 UTP - to Broadband router WAN port - Router 4 LAN ports to
>>PCs.
>>
>>The router gets the BY address details, the 82.x.x.x. IP on it's WAN
>>interface. The router passes some of the info like DNS to the PCs along
>>with the router private 192.168.x.x type IP addresses to the PC.
>>

>
>that's the normal way (even with adsl) fully understand that and have a
>friend has that same setup using multiple pc's on his connection.


So no need to change this as you did then.

>>>So..
>>>
>>>Without physical connection to internet, the routers wireless connection
>>>was setup and works. The router was configured on IP address
>>>192.168.0.200 with subnet of 255.255.255.0 (the laptop having been given
>>>a static ip for this procedure), the dhcp switched off (I thought that
>>>leaving at the standard private ip of 192.168.0.1 may cause conflicts
>>>with the webstar).

>>
>>No, don't mess with that stuff.
>>

>not a problem, I didn't realise at the start that the webstar did not
>use the private address range


It does, in fact there are several MAC addresses and IPs as there are
several interfaces.

It's been a long time, since I last looked at this. There is an internal
to BY 172 address, the your LAN 192.168.100.1 (something for the
internal webserver) the rest of that range for it's DHCP and then at
least a 3rd is the pass through of the public 82.x.x.x public range.

Then the usual router webpage 192.168.0.1, or similar.

The Webstar to the router (routing processes) handles things for you.

>>What normally happens, assuming BY again. If the BY cable signal is lost
>>the Webstar may act as a DHCP server, (that's the way my Surfboards have
>>worked), but as you can't have multiple devices normally this isn't an
>>issue. Since you need a router for multiple PCs it's DHCP handles all
>>that.
>>

>there is only one pc is this setup, it's just that we want to use the
>wireless connection (built in to the current router) rather than a
>physical one and


Got that, that's why you need a broadband ethernet router.

>>>The laptop was then reset to obtain an ip address and server details
>>>automatically, replugged into the webstar and it works.

>>
>>It would. It's designed that way. But you said that already.
>>
>>It's easier to leave the PC always at DHCP, doing that gets an IP
>>directly from the Webstar or from the router.
>>
>>>When the cable from the webstar is plugged into a lan port on the router
>>>and a cable from the computer to a lan port it works fine.

>>
>>That's just for any hardwired PC, but then you can only use that method
>>with 1 PC IIRC it's been years since doing that.
>>
>>>However when we try the wireless connection we get nothing, not even and
>>>ip address assigned to the laptop.

>>
>>It's not routing as the Webstar is not connected to the router vis the
>>WAN port.
>>

>and yet when physically attached it does.
>
>>>Now when the laptop is connected to the webstar an IP of 82.39.x.x with
>>>a subnet of 255.255.248.0 is given.

>>
>>Your point there is? That's just the IISP P settings.

>just given the details as I had thought about maybe giving the router an
>ip address within the same range, but as the address is not static how


Don't go there, you really want to risk using the address of another
user? The ISP will give you a helping hand with that one.

The IP address of the router (WAN port is the ISP DHCP address, it's the
1 device / interface connected to the ISP) is less of an issue using
only the LAN ports and not using the correct model for a broadband
ethernet connection.

If you add a 2nd PC to another LAN port I would expect it not to work.
The 1 PC when it does work will have the ISP assigned IP, add a 2nd PC
and check what happens to the 1st by comparing the ipconfig/all output.

That's not a LAN or WAN connection routing at that point, just the 4 LAN
ports ascing as a shared connection.

>do I know which one to give to the router (as it would be static) and of
>course you just know that at some point the one I picked would then be
>assigned to the webstar/pc.


You are going off course here. You need to get the correct type of
router and all the isues go away.

>>
>>>So, to me the problem is with the wireless connection. Now, this is the
>>>first time I have dealt with a wireless connection. Does such a
>>>connection simply work on the mac or does it have an ip address before
>>>it will talk to the hub?

>>
>>A wireless IP/MAC works the same as the wired connection. A PC requests
>>a valid IP via DHCP.
>>

>therefore logic suggests it should work as it works when physically
>connected.


Why?

>this is the one bit I don't understand. simply why the wireless
>connection doesn't work when the physical one does.
>
>Ultimately, I think this person is going to have to either put up with
>the physical cable or buy a cable router.
>
>The whole reason for this BTW is that Telewest gave her a patch cable to
>go from the webstar to her laptop which was a whole half a metre. As


As they do, remember it's only meant for 1 device. Sharing / ROuters
aren't supported however much they are allowed.

>she has no desk/work area (she used to use the wireless connetion and
>sit with the laptop on her lap) it's hard to support the laptop in
>midair and use it
>
>Thanks for replying


( I haven't tried this as I manage with an wireless access point plugged
into my router and the wireless link to a wireless router. The router is
either an extension to current LAN 192.168.0.x or a totally different
192.168.2.x and setting up RIP to exchange routing info)

- Is get a cheap single port wireless access point plug that into the
webstar as the ISP device. The AP feeds the ISP IP to a laptop. Just
tried it for fun.

Surfboard SB5101E (Blueyonder) - hardwired - Belkin F5D7130 Wireless
Range Extender/AP , wireless to Dell 1501. Works fine.


YW

Me
 
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why?
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-20-2007

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:20:55 +0000, wsotw wrote:

>Hi there,
>
>I need/would like a little bit of help.
>
>A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.
>All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
>seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear
>router on an ordinary lan.


Since cable modem to LAN side of router to 1 PC(laptop) works.

Replace the laptop by a 2nd PC running ICS or other connection sharing
software. So the ISP LAN is on NIC 1 and it's shared out a private LAN
to NIC 2 into which you plug a wireless access point / wireless dongle
which connects the laptop.

<snip>

Me
 
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