Should I bother?

I have been working professionally as a web application developer for the
past 4 years. I have a pretty good job right now, but as of late I am
feeling as though I might want to change careers and work as a windows
admin. I have always had a great deal of involvement in maintaining
development environments, database servers, iis, and windows 2000 servers.
Does anyone think that it might be worth making the transition? I know that
if I am going to change careers I should do it sooner than later. Is it
possible to obtain a MCSE certification by using the self paced training
kits on a home network (1 win2003 dc, xp pro, and 2k pro machine) with the
"limited" experience that I currently have, or am I just going to be wasting
my time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Phil

Phil Seidel

Phil,

I teach A+ and MCSE 2000 classes. I cruised throught the depression
with a heavy cut in pay but pretty constant work. Now that we are in
"recovery," my ex-employer (I had got up to teaching at the second
most important university in my area) cancelled an entire program of
classes that included the ones I taught. I heard that sucking sound.

As I search the job boards, I am seeing many more jobs for developers
than for SysAdmins. My suggestion would be if you are sick of coding,
do auto mechanics: 80 grand - I am hearing - for guys that can
interpret the computer readouts on new cars. But if you are not sick
of coding, continue what you are doing and add .net (lots of demand)
Websphere (lots of demand) or any sort of middleware integration
skills (lots of demand).

Now, realize, I am talking about my area, Phila, PA, the most backward
big city in the industrialized world.
And. as with everything, location location location. So check demand
in your location. But right now, the demand for NT admins (4.0
through 03) seems to be only for heavy, heavy experience in large
companies with project management experience to boot.

That aside, yes, you can use the self paced training kits and get the
certs. Caveat - buy other books - or spend time online downloading MS
Kb articles and everything you can get out of the Resource kits for
2kpro and server, XP and 03. And of course, reading them, which for
me, is always annoying. Reading a computer screen.... but if you 've
been developing, it may be easier. And go buy a couple amd 350s or
pentium 2 400s or better ($60-120 apiece) and set up a little lab
netowork. Others recommend VM ware, or Virtual Pc, but vm ware is
more expensive and, to start out, I think you should hook a few
computers together. Plug in that RJ-45! Run NetMon and watch those
computers chatting with each other. See that client you plugged in
get its IP addy from the DHCP server you just set up!

Of course, if you go into the advertising business, you'll get an
awful lot more women...................
But that may not be a desideratum.

And finally, if you decide to do it, go XP for the client and 2003
Server. The tests for 03 are coming out regularly and i have a
feeling, completely undocumented of course, that lots of companies
have been waiting for 03 before either upgrading from NT 4 or
switching to Windows. And 03 is Win2K Version 2 - the same, with lots
more stuff. Which makes it more complicated, but might as well bite
the complexity bullet right away. With your background, it should not
be hard for you. But it does take time.

best of luck,

Mike


"Phil Seidel" <> wrote in message
news:...
> I have been working professionally as a web application developer
for the
> past 4 years. I have a pretty good job right now, but as of late I
am
> feeling as though I might want to change careers and work as a
windows
> admin. I have always had a great deal of involvement in maintaining
> development environments, database servers, iis, and windows 2000
servers.
> Does anyone think that it might be worth making the transition? I
know that
> if I am going to change careers I should do it sooner than later.
Is it
> possible to obtain a MCSE certification by using the self paced
training
> kits on a home network (1 win2003 dc, xp pro, and 2k pro machine)
with the
> "limited" experience that I currently have, or am I just going to be
wasting
> my time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>

MikeF

Wow!
Thanks for the feedback. I know that the job market is pretty poor right
now, and I wouldn't even think about leaving my job unless I had something
nice lined up. Hopefully, things will pick up and those jobs will start
popping up again. Anyway, you mentioned that you teach... Would you have
any recommendations for weekend classes that teach the mcse cert?

Thanks,
Phil
"MikeF" <> wrote in message
news:uYvmT%...
> Phil,
>
> I teach A+ and MCSE 2000 classes. I cruised throught the depression
> with a heavy cut in pay but pretty constant work. Now that we are in
> "recovery," my ex-employer (I had got up to teaching at the second
> most important university in my area) cancelled an entire program of
> classes that included the ones I taught. I heard that sucking sound.
>
> As I search the job boards, I am seeing many more jobs for developers
> than for SysAdmins. My suggestion would be if you are sick of coding,
> do auto mechanics: 80 grand - I am hearing - for guys that can
> interpret the computer readouts on new cars. But if you are not sick
> of coding, continue what you are doing and add .net (lots of demand)
> Websphere (lots of demand) or any sort of middleware integration
> skills (lots of demand).
>
> Now, realize, I am talking about my area, Phila, PA, the most backward
> big city in the industrialized world.
> And. as with everything, location location location. So check demand
> in your location. But right now, the demand for NT admins (4.0
> through 03) seems to be only for heavy, heavy experience in large
> companies with project management experience to boot.
>
> That aside, yes, you can use the self paced training kits and get the
> certs. Caveat - buy other books - or spend time online downloading MS
> Kb articles and everything you can get out of the Resource kits for
> 2kpro and server, XP and 03. And of course, reading them, which for
> me, is always annoying. Reading a computer screen.... but if you 've
> been developing, it may be easier. And go buy a couple amd 350s or
> pentium 2 400s or better ($60-120 apiece) and set up a little lab
> netowork. Others recommend VM ware, or Virtual Pc, but vm ware is
> more expensive and, to start out, I think you should hook a few
> computers together. Plug in that RJ-45! Run NetMon and watch those
> computers chatting with each other. See that client you plugged in
> get its IP addy from the DHCP server you just set up!
>
> Of course, if you go into the advertising business, you'll get an
> awful lot more women...................
> But that may not be a desideratum.
>
> And finally, if you decide to do it, go XP for the client and 2003
> Server. The tests for 03 are coming out regularly and i have a
> feeling, completely undocumented of course, that lots of companies
> have been waiting for 03 before either upgrading from NT 4 or
> switching to Windows. And 03 is Win2K Version 2 - the same, with lots
> more stuff. Which makes it more complicated, but might as well bite
> the complexity bullet right away. With your background, it should not
> be hard for you. But it does take time.
>
> best of luck,
>
> Mike
>
>
> "Phil Seidel" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > I have been working professionally as a web application developer
> for the
> > past 4 years. I have a pretty good job right now, but as of late I
> am
> > feeling as though I might want to change careers and work as a
> windows
> > admin. I have always had a great deal of involvement in maintaining
> > development environments, database servers, iis, and windows 2000
> servers.
> > Does anyone think that it might be worth making the transition? I
> know that
> > if I am going to change careers I should do it sooner than later.
> Is it
> > possible to obtain a MCSE certification by using the self paced
> training
> > kits on a home network (1 win2003 dc, xp pro, and 2k pro machine)
> with the
> > "limited" experience that I currently have, or am I just going to be
> wasting
> > my time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Phil
> >
> >
>
>

Phil Seidel

MikeF wrote:

> Phil,
>
> I teach A+ and MCSE 2000 classes. I cruised throught the depression
> with a heavy cut in pay but pretty constant work. Now that we are in
> "recovery," my ex-employer (I had got up to teaching at the second
> most important university in my area) cancelled an entire program of
> classes that included the ones I taught. I heard that sucking sound.
>
> As I search the job boards, I am seeing many more jobs for developers
> than for SysAdmins. My suggestion would be if you are sick of coding,
> do auto mechanics: 80 grand - I am hearing - for guys that can
> interpret the computer readouts on new cars. But if you are not sick
> of coding, continue what you are doing and add .net (lots of demand)
> Websphere (lots of demand) or any sort of middleware integration
> skills (lots of demand).
>
> Now, realize, I am talking about my area, Phila, PA, the most backward
> big city in the industrialized world.
> And. as with everything, location location location. So check demand
> in your location. But right now, the demand for NT admins (4.0
> through 03) seems to be only for heavy, heavy experience in large
> companies with project management experience to boot.
>
> That aside, yes, you can use the self paced training kits and get the
> certs. Caveat - buy other books - or spend time online downloading MS
> Kb articles and everything you can get out of the Resource kits for
> 2kpro and server, XP and 03. And of course, reading them, which for
> me, is always annoying. Reading a computer screen.... but if you 've
> been developing, it may be easier. And go buy a couple amd 350s or
> pentium 2 400s or better ($60-120 apiece) and set up a little lab
> netowork. Others recommend VM ware, or Virtual Pc, but vm ware is
> more expensive and, to start out, I think you should hook a few
> computers together. Plug in that RJ-45! Run NetMon and watch those
> computers chatting with each other. See that client you plugged in
> get its IP addy from the DHCP server you just set up!
>
> Of course, if you go into the advertising business, you'll get an
> awful lot more women...................
> But that may not be a desideratum.
>
> And finally, if you decide to do it, go XP for the client and 2003
> Server. The tests for 03 are coming out regularly and i have a
> feeling, completely undocumented of course, that lots of companies
> have been waiting for 03 before either upgrading from NT 4 or
> switching to Windows. And 03 is Win2K Version 2 - the same, with lots
> more stuff. Which makes it more complicated, but might as well bite
> the complexity bullet right away. With your background, it should not
> be hard for you. But it does take time.
>
> best of luck,
>
> Mike

I agree with Mike....developers are usually more in demand and better
off than pure hardware people (sys. admins, router people).
The thing is you have to be well rounded to get good work. So,
following Mike's advice on the .NET is wise...so is knowing Java and a
few scripting languages (Perl and PHP for starters).
After a while, most of the concepts are familiar, it's just the syntax
that changes.

Good luck,

Oskar

>
>
> "Phil Seidel" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>
>>I have been working professionally as a web application developer
>
> for the
>
>>past 4 years. I have a pretty good job right now, but as of late I
>
> am
>
>>feeling as though I might want to change careers and work as a
>
> windows
>
>>admin. I have always had a great deal of involvement in maintaining
>>development environments, database servers, iis, and windows 2000
>
> servers.
>
>>Does anyone think that it might be worth making the transition? I
>
> know that
>
>>if I am going to change careers I should do it sooner than later.
>
> Is it
>
>>possible to obtain a MCSE certification by using the self paced
>
> training
>
>>kits on a home network (1 win2003 dc, xp pro, and 2k pro machine)
>
> with the
>
>>"limited" experience that I currently have, or am I just going to be
>
> wasting
>
>>my time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Phil
>>
>>
>
>
>

pheonix1t

Phil Seidel wrote:

> Wow!
> Thanks for the feedback. I know that the job market is pretty poor right
> now, and I wouldn't even think about leaving my job unless I had something
> nice lined up. Hopefully, things will pick up and those jobs will start
> popping up again. Anyway, you mentioned that you teach... Would you have
> any recommendations for weekend classes that teach the mcse cert?

I guess you can take classes if you prefer....I'd recommend getting a
good set of books. The books from sybex or MSpress are usually the most
popular. I prefer sybex but it's subjective....MSpress has gotten much
better. A few years ago they were just aweful.
For "industrial strength" information (real world situations),
www.oreilly.com is your friend! Being a programmer, you may be very
familiar with them.




>
> Thanks,
> Phil
> "MikeF" <> wrote in message
> news:uYvmT%...
>
>>Phil,
>>
>>I teach A+ and MCSE 2000 classes. I cruised throught the depression
>>with a heavy cut in pay but pretty constant work. Now that we are in
>>"recovery," my ex-employer (I had got up to teaching at the second
>>most important university in my area) cancelled an entire program of
>>classes that included the ones I taught. I heard that sucking sound.
>>
>>As I search the job boards, I am seeing many more jobs for developers
>>than for SysAdmins. My suggestion would be if you are sick of coding,
>>do auto mechanics: 80 grand - I am hearing - for guys that can
>>interpret the computer readouts on new cars. But if you are not sick
>>of coding, continue what you are doing and add .net (lots of demand)
>>Websphere (lots of demand) or any sort of middleware integration
>>skills (lots of demand).
>>
>>Now, realize, I am talking about my area, Phila, PA, the most backward
>>big city in the industrialized world.
>>And. as with everything, location location location. So check demand
>>in your location. But right now, the demand for NT admins (4.0
>>through 03) seems to be only for heavy, heavy experience in large
>>companies with project management experience to boot.
>>
>>That aside, yes, you can use the self paced training kits and get the
>>certs. Caveat - buy other books - or spend time online downloading MS
>>Kb articles and everything you can get out of the Resource kits for
>>2kpro and server, XP and 03. And of course, reading them, which for
>>me, is always annoying. Reading a computer screen.... but if you 've
>>been developing, it may be easier. And go buy a couple amd 350s or
>>pentium 2 400s or better ($60-120 apiece) and set up a little lab
>>netowork. Others recommend VM ware, or Virtual Pc, but vm ware is
>>more expensive and, to start out, I think you should hook a few
>>computers together. Plug in that RJ-45! Run NetMon and watch those
>>computers chatting with each other. See that client you plugged in
>>get its IP addy from the DHCP server you just set up!
>>
>>Of course, if you go into the advertising business, you'll get an
>>awful lot more women...................
>>But that may not be a desideratum.
>>
>>And finally, if you decide to do it, go XP for the client and 2003
>>Server. The tests for 03 are coming out regularly and i have a
>>feeling, completely undocumented of course, that lots of companies
>>have been waiting for 03 before either upgrading from NT 4 or
>>switching to Windows. And 03 is Win2K Version 2 - the same, with lots
>>more stuff. Which makes it more complicated, but might as well bite
>>the complexity bullet right away. With your background, it should not
>>be hard for you. But it does take time.
>>
>>best of luck,
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>"Phil Seidel" <> wrote in message
>>news:...
>>
>>>I have been working professionally as a web application developer
>>
>>for the
>>
>>>past 4 years. I have a pretty good job right now, but as of late I
>>
>>am
>>
>>>feeling as though I might want to change careers and work as a
>>
>>windows
>>
>>>admin. I have always had a great deal of involvement in maintaining
>>>development environments, database servers, iis, and windows 2000
>>
>>servers.
>>
>>>Does anyone think that it might be worth making the transition? I
>>
>>know that
>>
>>>if I am going to change careers I should do it sooner than later.
>>
>>Is it
>>
>>>possible to obtain a MCSE certification by using the self paced
>>
>>training
>>
>>>kits on a home network (1 win2003 dc, xp pro, and 2k pro machine)
>>
>>with the
>>
>>>"limited" experience that I currently have, or am I just going to be
>>
>>wasting
>>
>>>my time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Phil
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

pheonix1t

Since I'm waiting for the spaghetti, phoenix is right. I've seen jobs
for NT admins that want so much scripting that you would think they
are looking for integration and admin for the price of admin. Java is
common. Perl and PHP are common. All of the windows scripting
technologies are common. (even tho windows still works with good old
bat filesm, now also called .cmd files As for the weekend classes,
check your local community colleges. The price is usually better, and
the edu. is as good as the faster classes at commercial computer
training schools.

Mike0

"pheonix1t" <> wrote in message
news:5aYsb.668$. ..
> MikeF wrote:
>
> > Phil,
> >
> > I teach A+ and MCSE 2000 classes. I cruised throught the
depression
> > with a heavy cut in pay but pretty constant work. Now that we are
in
> > "recovery," my ex-employer (I had got up to teaching at the
second
> > most important university in my area) cancelled an entire program
of
> > classes that included the ones I taught. I heard that sucking
sound.
> >
> > As I search the job boards, I am seeing many more jobs for
developers
> > than for SysAdmins. My suggestion would be if you are sick of
coding,
> > do auto mechanics: 80 grand - I am hearing - for guys that can
> > interpret the computer readouts on new cars. But if you are not
sick
> > of coding, continue what you are doing and add .net (lots of
demand)
> > Websphere (lots of demand) or any sort of middleware integration
> > skills (lots of demand).
> >
> > Now, realize, I am talking about my area, Phila, PA, the most
backward
> > big city in the industrialized world.
> > And. as with everything, location location location. So check
demand
> > in your location. But right now, the demand for NT admins (4.0
> > through 03) seems to be only for heavy, heavy experience in large
> > companies with project management experience to boot.
> >
> > That aside, yes, you can use the self paced training kits and get
the
> > certs. Caveat - buy other books - or spend time online
downloading MS
> > Kb articles and everything you can get out of the Resource kits
for
> > 2kpro and server, XP and 03. And of course, reading them, which
for
> > me, is always annoying. Reading a computer screen.... but if you
've
> > been developing, it may be easier. And go buy a couple amd 350s
or
> > pentium 2 400s or better ($60-120 apiece) and set up a little lab
> > netowork. Others recommend VM ware, or Virtual Pc, but vm ware is
> > more expensive and, to start out, I think you should hook a few
> > computers together. Plug in that RJ-45! Run NetMon and watch
those
> > computers chatting with each other. See that client you plugged
in
> > get its IP addy from the DHCP server you just set up!
> >
> > Of course, if you go into the advertising business, you'll get an
> > awful lot more women...................
> > But that may not be a desideratum.
> >
> > And finally, if you decide to do it, go XP for the client and 2003
> > Server. The tests for 03 are coming out regularly and i have a
> > feeling, completely undocumented of course, that lots of companies
> > have been waiting for 03 before either upgrading from NT 4 or
> > switching to Windows. And 03 is Win2K Version 2 - the same, with
lots
> > more stuff. Which makes it more complicated, but might as well
bite
> > the complexity bullet right away. With your background, it should
not
> > be hard for you. But it does take time.
> >
> > best of luck,
> >
> > Mike
>
> I agree with Mike....developers are usually more in demand and
better
> off than pure hardware people (sys. admins, router people).
> The thing is you have to be well rounded to get good work. So,
> following Mike's advice on the .NET is wise...so is knowing Java and
a
> few scripting languages (Perl and PHP for starters).
> After a while, most of the concepts are familiar, it's just the
syntax
> that changes.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Oskar
>
> >
> >
> > "Phil Seidel" <> wrote in message
> > news:...
> >
> >>I have been working professionally as a web application developer
> >
> > for the
> >
> >>past 4 years. I have a pretty good job right now, but as of late
I
> >
> > am
> >
> >>feeling as though I might want to change careers and work as a
> >
> > windows
> >
> >>admin. I have always had a great deal of involvement in
maintaining
> >>development environments, database servers, iis, and windows 2000
> >
> > servers.
> >
> >>Does anyone think that it might be worth making the transition? I
> >
> > know that
> >
> >>if I am going to change careers I should do it sooner than later.
> >
> > Is it
> >
> >>possible to obtain a MCSE certification by using the self paced
> >
> > training
> >
> >>kits on a home network (1 win2003 dc, xp pro, and 2k pro machine)
> >
> > with the
> >
> >>"limited" experience that I currently have, or am I just going to
be
> >
> > wasting
> >
> >>my time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Phil

MikeF

Thanks for the advice guys... Anything else you might wish to share feel
free.

Thanks.

"MikeF" <> wrote in message
news:%...
>
> Since I'm waiting for the spaghetti, phoenix is right. I've seen jobs
> for NT admins that want so much scripting that you would think they
> are looking for integration and admin for the price of admin. Java is
> common. Perl and PHP are common. All of the windows scripting
> technologies are common. (even tho windows still works with good old
> bat filesm, now also called .cmd files As for the weekend classes,
> check your local community colleges. The price is usually better, and
> the edu. is as good as the faster classes at commercial computer
> training schools.
>
> Mike0
>
> "pheonix1t" <> wrote in message
> news:5aYsb.668$. ..
> > MikeF wrote:
> >
> > > Phil,
> > >
> > > I teach A+ and MCSE 2000 classes. I cruised throught the
> depression
> > > with a heavy cut in pay but pretty constant work. Now that we are
> in
> > > "recovery," my ex-employer (I had got up to teaching at the
> second
> > > most important university in my area) cancelled an entire program
> of
> > > classes that included the ones I taught. I heard that sucking
> sound.
> > >
> > > As I search the job boards, I am seeing many more jobs for
> developers
> > > than for SysAdmins. My suggestion would be if you are sick of
> coding,
> > > do auto mechanics: 80 grand - I am hearing - for guys that can
> > > interpret the computer readouts on new cars. But if you are not
> sick
> > > of coding, continue what you are doing and add .net (lots of
> demand)
> > > Websphere (lots of demand) or any sort of middleware integration
> > > skills (lots of demand).
> > >
> > > Now, realize, I am talking about my area, Phila, PA, the most
> backward
> > > big city in the industrialized world.
> > > And. as with everything, location location location. So check
> demand
> > > in your location. But right now, the demand for NT admins (4.0
> > > through 03) seems to be only for heavy, heavy experience in large
> > > companies with project management experience to boot.
> > >
> > > That aside, yes, you can use the self paced training kits and get
> the
> > > certs. Caveat - buy other books - or spend time online
> downloading MS
> > > Kb articles and everything you can get out of the Resource kits
> for
> > > 2kpro and server, XP and 03. And of course, reading them, which
> for
> > > me, is always annoying. Reading a computer screen.... but if you
> 've
> > > been developing, it may be easier. And go buy a couple amd 350s
> or
> > > pentium 2 400s or better ($60-120 apiece) and set up a little lab
> > > netowork. Others recommend VM ware, or Virtual Pc, but vm ware is
> > > more expensive and, to start out, I think you should hook a few
> > > computers together. Plug in that RJ-45! Run NetMon and watch
> those
> > > computers chatting with each other. See that client you plugged
> in
> > > get its IP addy from the DHCP server you just set up!
> > >
> > > Of course, if you go into the advertising business, you'll get an
> > > awful lot more women...................
> > > But that may not be a desideratum.
> > >
> > > And finally, if you decide to do it, go XP for the client and 2003
> > > Server. The tests for 03 are coming out regularly and i have a
> > > feeling, completely undocumented of course, that lots of companies
> > > have been waiting for 03 before either upgrading from NT 4 or
> > > switching to Windows. And 03 is Win2K Version 2 - the same, with
> lots
> > > more stuff. Which makes it more complicated, but might as well
> bite
> > > the complexity bullet right away. With your background, it should
> not
> > > be hard for you. But it does take time.
> > >
> > > best of luck,
> > >
> > > Mike
> >
> > I agree with Mike....developers are usually more in demand and
> better
> > off than pure hardware people (sys. admins, router people).
> > The thing is you have to be well rounded to get good work. So,
> > following Mike's advice on the .NET is wise...so is knowing Java and
> a
> > few scripting languages (Perl and PHP for starters).
> > After a while, most of the concepts are familiar, it's just the
> syntax
> > that changes.
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> > Oskar
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Phil Seidel" <> wrote in message
> > > news:...
> > >
> > >>I have been working professionally as a web application developer
> > >
> > > for the
> > >
> > >>past 4 years. I have a pretty good job right now, but as of late
> I
> > >
> > > am
> > >
> > >>feeling as though I might want to change careers and work as a
> > >
> > > windows
> > >
> > >>admin. I have always had a great deal of involvement in
> maintaining
> > >>development environments, database servers, iis, and windows 2000
> > >
> > > servers.
> > >
> > >>Does anyone think that it might be worth making the transition? I
> > >
> > > know that
> > >
> > >>if I am going to change careers I should do it sooner than later.
> > >
> > > Is it
> > >
> > >>possible to obtain a MCSE certification by using the self paced
> > >
> > > training
> > >
> > >>kits on a home network (1 win2003 dc, xp pro, and 2k pro machine)
> > >
> > > with the
> > >
> > >>"limited" experience that I currently have, or am I just going to
> be
> > >
> > > wasting
> > >
> > >>my time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
> > >>
> > >>Thanks,
> > >>Phil
>
>

Phil Seidel