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General question about studying

 
 
Consultant
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-14-2003
you miss the whole point. ther certifications were intended as some form of
proof that validates an individual with experience in the field being
tested. it was never meant as a piece of paper to get some noob's foot in
the door as a tech. go whine somewhere else


"Davor Dzorlev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I don't know what to say. Lucky you!
> You had an ideal conditions to certify. But for most cases today, it is

very
> rare for someone to give you a job for an administrator without having

some
> certification. And how can you gain such experience without working?! By
> practice in your home lab for several years or maintaining some school
> network several years for free? It goes like that story about the chicken
> and the egg. Anyway we are not arguing but discussing, and I completely
> agree against cheating.
>
> "|{evin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:53:21 +0100, "Davor Dzorlev"
> > <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> > >Yes but that process in real life of miss things and find out about

them
> is
> > >also known as a gaining an experience. Obviously you have the rare gift

> to
> > >be born experienced and that's why you are so surprised on this

> phenomenon.
> >
> > Um, no. I was an admin for about 6 years and a developer for about 3
> > years before I decided to get my MCSE and MCSD.
> >
> > >I see, in case you stuck somewhere in your work I guess you won't post

> your
> > >sorrow here, but you will turn to your talent. And Yes the

certification
> is
> >
> > Google is my friend. I also have a network of experienced friends...
> > when one of us runs up against something that stumps us...
> > collaboration is only a phone call away.
> >
> > >"supposed to mean that you HAVE the experience", but in the real life

it
> > >reflects that you have "enough knowledge" (not real experience) to take

> the
> > >certification (not all certifications, but most). And the main purpose

> (for
> > >IT professional) is to succeed in the career more easy. Otherwise, you

> won't
> >
> > Yep.
> >
> > >probably certificate just for your satisfaction, to confirm your

> experience,
> > >to impress your parents or girlfriend. Don't be so romantic. But you

are
> > >right about not to 'fill in the gaps' with memorized answers, but with

> some
> > >real knowledge and practice.

> >
> > I'm not sure if we're agreeing or arguing here... my point was that
> > cheating to 'fill in the missing' experience is not acceptable.
> >

>
>



 
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Brat
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-14-2003
because it is based on braindump material... so everything it "teaches" you
in there was, at one point, a braindump question.

simple

"mcglinchey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> OK, now I'm really confused. Why would a Test King study guide
> without a single question in it be cheating?
>
> Laura
>
> "Brat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

news:<bp0fv7$rtm$(E-Mail Removed)>...
> > your copy of Test King is also cheating
> >
> > "mcglinchey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with w2k
> > > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
> > > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training Kit,
> > > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
> > > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
> > > upon. Is using them cheating?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Laura



 
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Brat
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-14-2003
MS recomments self test software and measure up as great resources. Others
swear by Transcenders

www.transcender.com
www.selftestsoftware.com
www.measureup.com

"mcglinchey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> I agree that using actual questions would be cheating. So what are
> some good resources for *practice* questions that aren't actually
> stolen from the test?
>
> Thanks,
> Laura
>
> http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (mcglinchey) wrote in message

news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
> > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with w2k
> > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
> > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training Kit,
> > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
> > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
> > upon. Is using them cheating?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Laura



 
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Laura
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-14-2003
Oops...


>-----Original Message-----
>because it is based on braindump material... so

everything it "teaches" you
>in there was, at one point, a braindump question.
>
>simple
>
>"mcglinchey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed). com...
>> OK, now I'm really confused. Why would a Test King

study guide
>> without a single question in it be cheating?
>>
>> Laura
>>
>> "Brat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in

message
>news:<bp0fv7$rtm$(E-Mail Removed)>...
>> > your copy of Test King is also cheating
>> >
>> > "mcglinchey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in

message
>> >

news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
>> > > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have

been working with w2k
>> > > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly

and have been
>> > > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide,

Microsoft's Training Kit,
>> > > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert

websites. I was
>> > > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not

looked to highly
>> > > upon. Is using them cheating?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Laura

>
>
>.
>

 
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Laura
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-14-2003
Thanks so much!


>-----Original Message-----
>MS recomments self test software and measure up as great

resources. Others
>swear by Transcenders
>
>www.transcender.com
>www.selftestsoftware.com
>www.measureup.com
>
>"mcglinchey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed). com...
>> I agree that using actual questions would be cheating.

So what are
>> some good resources for *practice* questions that

aren't actually
>> stolen from the test?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Laura
>>
>> (E-Mail Removed) (mcglinchey) wrote in message

>news:<(E-Mail Removed) .com>...
>> > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been

working with w2k
>> > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and

have been
>> > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide,

Microsoft's Training Kit,
>> > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert

websites. I was
>> > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not

looked to highly
>> > upon. Is using them cheating?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Laura

>
>
>.
>

 
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Brian
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-14-2003
"Politician Spock" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
> If a professor was giving you an exam, would he consider it cheating if

you
> knew the exact questions from the test ahead of time?

Not that I disagree on the whole braindumper=assfu... well, you get my point
there. However, I might point out that when I was in university, we could
get old exams to study from. Some of the profs were notorious for using the
same exam questions every semester. Was it cheating? We didn't think so at
the time. Of course unlike MS, the prof was willing to give the questions
out.

Brian



 
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Davor Dzorlev
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-14-2003
Maybe your right, I didn't noticed before, but they have no contact address
on their web site nor telephone, just an e-mails. That don't reflects any
serious company. What about Transcender (Transtrainer or test simulators)
they have full contact address in the US, so MS is not so far from them, are
they right tool for learning or they are fake too like the others? If not, I
have to say that their test simulator questions don't differs to much from
those of Test King (I mean by difficulty, and similarity) and those from the
real exam. I have worked on MS practice tests, but they are far less
difficult as those on the real exam, so you may get wrong picture of what to
expect on the exam. I like to see more complex exams (with more real world
situations) in future to avoid cheating and to put more value in the
certificate itself.

"Politician Spock" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> There are plenty of practice test resources that are legitimate and give

you
> exactly what you are seeking in preparing for the tests. Test King however
> uses braindumps to form their questions. They are located in Pakistan so
> that Microsoft has little resource to sue them for their business

practices.
>
> --
> Politician Spock
> MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

rights.
> You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
> understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
>
> "Davor Dzorlev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%23I$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > But you have to see some real test environment as also the lab

environment
> > (hands on), cause it is better to se how the tests looks like, than to

do
> it
> > by burning the money and time on trying the real exams. I mean that it

is
> > nice to see if you can handle the pressure and to finish on time the

real
> > exam. Don't forget that not all candidates speak native English, so they
> > must to try before they go to exam. I don't look on this as the primary

> way
> > to prepare for the exam, but as a supplement to real learning, lab

> practice
> > and real world experience. Test King and some other test tools

> (Transcender
> > for example) also gives the explanation (not just correct answer), so

you
> > can find if you have missed up something in your learning. It is normal

> that
> > everybody is missing some experience and meets some issues for the first
> > time in certification learning and preparation, then it is very possible
> > that he/she can also miss some important stuff on the real exam.
> >
> > "Larry Samuels MS-MVP XP (Shell/User)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Test King uses dumps--actual exams to prepare their guides.
> > > They are not test guides, they are cheat sheets.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
> > > Associate Expert
> > > Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
> > > http://home.earthlink.net/~larrysamuels/WS2003FAQ.htm
> > > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> > > "Davor Dzorlev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Please explain why Test King's tests are cheating?
> > > >
> > > > "Brat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > news:bp0fv7$rtm$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > your copy of Test King is also cheating
> > > > >
> > > > > "mcglinchey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > > news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > > > > > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working

with
> > w2k
> > > > > > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
> > > > > > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's

Training
> > Kit,
> > > > > > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
> > > > > > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to

> highly
> > > > > > upon. Is using them cheating?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Laura
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



 
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Politician Spock
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-14-2003
In the late 90's, there were a lot of rumors that Microsoft was going to
take legal action against Transcender because it was widely held that their
questions were from braindumps. If Transcender was using braindumps, I am
pretty sure they have changed their practices to stay in business. You will
probably hear that they are braindumps, because they probably were at one
time, but now they are a legitimate business that Microsoft doesn't seem to
have a problem with.

--
Politician Spock
MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
© 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.

"Davor Dzorlev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Maybe your right, I didn't noticed before, but they have no contact

address
> on their web site nor telephone, just an e-mails. That don't reflects any
> serious company. What about Transcender (Transtrainer or test simulators)
> they have full contact address in the US, so MS is not so far from them,

are
> they right tool for learning or they are fake too like the others? If not,

I
> have to say that their test simulator questions don't differs to much from
> those of Test King (I mean by difficulty, and similarity) and those from

the
> real exam. I have worked on MS practice tests, but they are far less
> difficult as those on the real exam, so you may get wrong picture of what

to
> expect on the exam. I like to see more complex exams (with more real world
> situations) in future to avoid cheating and to put more value in the
> certificate itself.
>
> "Politician Spock" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > There are plenty of practice test resources that are legitimate and give

> you
> > exactly what you are seeking in preparing for the tests. Test King

however
> > uses braindumps to form their questions. They are located in Pakistan so
> > that Microsoft has little resource to sue them for their business

> practices.
> >
> > --
> > Politician Spock
> > MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
> >
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

> rights.
> > You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
> > understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> > living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> > © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
> >
> > "Davor Dzorlev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:%23I$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > But you have to see some real test environment as also the lab

> environment
> > > (hands on), cause it is better to se how the tests looks like, than to

> do
> > it
> > > by burning the money and time on trying the real exams. I mean that it

> is
> > > nice to see if you can handle the pressure and to finish on time the

> real
> > > exam. Don't forget that not all candidates speak native English, so

they
> > > must to try before they go to exam. I don't look on this as the

primary
> > way
> > > to prepare for the exam, but as a supplement to real learning, lab

> > practice
> > > and real world experience. Test King and some other test tools

> > (Transcender
> > > for example) also gives the explanation (not just correct answer), so

> you
> > > can find if you have missed up something in your learning. It is

normal
> > that
> > > everybody is missing some experience and meets some issues for the

first
> > > time in certification learning and preparation, then it is very

possible
> > > that he/she can also miss some important stuff on the real exam.
> > >
> > > "Larry Samuels MS-MVP XP (Shell/User)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in

message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Test King uses dumps--actual exams to prepare their guides.
> > > > They are not test guides, they are cheat sheets.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
> > > > Associate Expert
> > > > Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
> > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~larrysamuels/WS2003FAQ.htm
> > > > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> > > > "Davor Dzorlev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > Please explain why Test King's tests are cheating?
> > > > >
> > > > > "Brat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > > news:bp0fv7$rtm$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > > your copy of Test King is also cheating
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "mcglinchey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > > > > > > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working

> with
> > > w2k
> > > > > > > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
> > > > > > > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's

> Training
> > > Kit,
> > > > > > > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
> > > > > > > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to

> > highly
> > > > > > > upon. Is using them cheating?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Laura
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



 
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Davor Dzorlev
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-14-2003
I hope your breath don't stinks so much like your stupid comments. It is not
my intention to make any point, but to initialize different opinions. Unlike
some others I don't just standing blindly behind my believes, but like any
normal person I am in constant learning process, so I am accepting better
ideas and suggestions than my current knowledge (if they are confirmed by
facts or by more experienced, but I don't accept something in form of
someone shitting). If you want people to believe in your words, you should
rephrase them and make the whole this bullshit of yours more pleasent to
read.

"Consultant" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> you miss the whole point. ther certifications were intended as some form

of
> proof that validates an individual with experience in the field being
> tested. it was never meant as a piece of paper to get some noob's foot in
> the door as a tech. go whine somewhere else
>
>
> "Davor Dzorlev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I don't know what to say. Lucky you!
> > You had an ideal conditions to certify. But for most cases today, it is

> very
> > rare for someone to give you a job for an administrator without having

> some
> > certification. And how can you gain such experience without working?! By
> > practice in your home lab for several years or maintaining some school
> > network several years for free? It goes like that story about the

chicken
> > and the egg. Anyway we are not arguing but discussing, and I completely
> > agree against cheating.
> >
> > "|{evin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:53:21 +0100, "Davor Dzorlev"
> > > <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Yes but that process in real life of miss things and find out about

> them
> > is
> > > >also known as a gaining an experience. Obviously you have the rare

gift
> > to
> > > >be born experienced and that's why you are so surprised on this

> > phenomenon.
> > >
> > > Um, no. I was an admin for about 6 years and a developer for about 3
> > > years before I decided to get my MCSE and MCSD.
> > >
> > > >I see, in case you stuck somewhere in your work I guess you won't

post
> > your
> > > >sorrow here, but you will turn to your talent. And Yes the

> certification
> > is
> > >
> > > Google is my friend. I also have a network of experienced friends...
> > > when one of us runs up against something that stumps us...
> > > collaboration is only a phone call away.
> > >
> > > >"supposed to mean that you HAVE the experience", but in the real life

> it
> > > >reflects that you have "enough knowledge" (not real experience) to

take
> > the
> > > >certification (not all certifications, but most). And the main

purpose
> > (for
> > > >IT professional) is to succeed in the career more easy. Otherwise,

you
> > won't
> > >
> > > Yep.
> > >
> > > >probably certificate just for your satisfaction, to confirm your

> > experience,
> > > >to impress your parents or girlfriend. Don't be so romantic. But you

> are
> > > >right about not to 'fill in the gaps' with memorized answers, but

with
> > some
> > > >real knowledge and practice.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if we're agreeing or arguing here... my point was that
> > > cheating to 'fill in the missing' experience is not acceptable.
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



 
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=?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?=
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-14-2003
Politician Spock wrote:
> In the late 90's, there were a lot of rumors that Microsoft was going
> to take legal action against Transcender because it was widely held
> that their questions were from braindumps. If Transcender was using
> braindumps, I am pretty sure they have changed their practices to
> stay in business. You will probably hear that they are braindumps,
> because they probably were at one time, but now they are a legitimate
> business that Microsoft doesn't seem to have a problem with.


Spike wouldn't cheat, now would he?

Come to think of it, his monthly column in Certification Magazine has
stopped.

--
Fris "FREE SPIKE!" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help

 
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