Not Computer Related Q

Mara wrote:

> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
> parents.

It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.

> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.

You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for everyone,
a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or rather prevented
a long time ago -- ie never started.

One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.

As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them put
together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none have the
ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of them


--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter

In news:445fcf77$0$76118$ reenews.net,
Mike Easter spewed forth:
> Mara wrote:
>
>> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
>> parents.
>
> It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.
>
>> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.
>
> You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for
> everyone, a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or
> rather prevented a long time ago -- ie never started.
>
> One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.
>
> As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them
> put together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none
> have the ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of
> them

I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better - except he
didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did straighten up and
at the age of 45 finished college and has a full time job. So there is
hope - but someone has often got to force a change.

--
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Toolman Tim

On 2006-05-08, Mara <> wrote:
> On Mon, 8 May 2006 12:00:12 -0700, "Toolman Tim" <>
> wrote:
>
>>In news:,
>>Mara spewed forth:
>
><snip>
>>> He's 50. If he had wanted to live any other lifestyle, he would have
>>> long ago. Instead, he has chosen to be a parasite preying on others.
>>>
>>> Note: This is how he has *chosen* to live. You didn't choose that for
>>> him.
>>>
>>> Helping someone who is making an earnest *effort* to make a better
>>> life for themselves, i.e. helping them until they can get a job,
>>> etc., because you know they've been working hard to make their life
>>> better is one thing. But from what you posted, that's not what's
>>> happening. You are under no obligation to support him simply because
>>> he asks or expects you to. You are not responsible for his lifestyle
>>> choices, and not responsible for his life. And in fact, by doing all
>>> that, you might be encouraging him to do more of the same thing he's
>>> always done.
>>>
>>> Everyone has to grow up sometime. At 50, he ought to be able to at
>>> least try to live his *own* life without having others furnish
>>> everything for him. You shouldn't feel guilty about saying "No" if
>>> that's what you want to do. He made his choice - now you make yours.
>>
>>Nicely said. There are times when someone may be going down a rough road.
>>But if they have chosen to /stay/ there, then nothing anyone does will
>>change it. Helping them usually makes the problem worse - for both parties.
>
> I have good reason to feel this way - I have a brother who is exactly like this.
> At 48 years old, he claims to be "semi-retired" and has lived with my parents
> for the last 12 years. He doesn't have a job and won't look for one, I suspect
> because it's pretty well known in these parts that he's a drunk. Plus, minimum
> wage is "beneath him." Those are his words, not mine.

Alcoholism is a tough row to hoe... but not for the alcoholic. Modern drugs
will "clean 'em up" in 3-5 days with no terrible withdrawal ("Valium
Holiday"). What they do after that is up to them...probably relapse.

> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my parents. I can't
> remember all the times my father has had to go over to the next town and bail
> his ass out of jail and get Dad's pickup out of the impound lot at $120 a shot
> because he got drunk and got a DUI or got into a fight or any number of other
> assorted stupidities.

They're "enablers" but how does the daughter tell the father? (rhetorical)

>
> But he's not the only one at fault there. In fact, the last time Dad went to
> court with him, the judge told him flat out to stop enabling him. But did he
> listen? Hell no - because my mother wouldn't have it.

Moms are the worst enablers...how does the daughter tell the mother?
(rhetorical)

> I stayed there for two weeks while I was in the process of moving here. That was
> WAY more than enough for me. Yet, my brother though *I* was crazy for moving out
> and away.
>
> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.
>
> "Oh, man, don't get me started on *that* situation, because I have a LOT to say
> about it."

Slightly different problem in the "extended" family but lucky for us- My
wife and I get invited first so that another (sorta like a brother(-in-law))
won't think there's a place for them "there". It's just a way of not going
through all the argument/discussion that drunks want to have but nobody
cares about. "Sorry, full up, here's a list of motels" (you sorry, drunken,
asshole.)

The sad thing is that they don't realize that others do care for them. The
only thing they want is for their enablers to keep enabling. It's a
sub-human existence...they're trolls (a rather strict analogy).

--
Which reminds me...I have to hide my "Damn Russian Vodka" or I won't get
invited that way anymore
Of course, I might be in jail anyway since BS claims I shutdown the
Internet backbone. (only Morely knows for sure

Jimchip

On Mon, 8 May 2006 16:33:26 -0700, "Toolman Tim" <>
wrote:

>In news:445fcf77$0$76118$ reenews.net,
>Mike Easter spewed forth:
>> Mara wrote:
>>
>>> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
>>> parents.
>>
>> It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.
>>
>>> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.
>>
>> You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for
>> everyone, a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or
>> rather prevented a long time ago -- ie never started.
>>
>> One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.
>>
>> As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them
>> put together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none
>> have the ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of
>> them

It isn't tragic. It's what they chose. They are the same people who *chose* to
try to sell me my Grandmother's house a little less than three years ago for
$40,000, too - when both the assessed value and the fair market value was
$12,000. It was quite deliberate. So were lies they told my lawyer - lies easily
disproved.

I suppose I should thank them, in a way, though. It was that incident that made
me wake up and realize that my life would be a *lot* better off without them.
And it has. Because of that, I have my own home that's about 50 times the house
my Grandmother's was - and I have peace at home. As for Grandmother, she is in
my heart wherever I live - her picture is the first thing I see when I walk in
the front door - and were she alive to have witnessed all the things they have
done just since I moved back to this town, she would be appalled.

When I found out what was going on, I insisted from that point that anything
they wished to discuss about the house must be in writing, because I wanted a
paper trail in case they tried something again. In my last reply to them, when I
told them that I had bought a different house, I told them that they were
perfectly welcome to come over and visit me at any time - as long as they
treated me with respect. I gave them a choice, and stated my boundaries, as is
right and proper for any self-respecting human being.

They have never been to this house to visit in the almost three years I have
been here, or called. *That* was *their* choice, my mother's actually, and I'm
satisfied with it, because it saves me what would only be more trouble.

My father *has* come and snooped around the outside of my house and looked in
the windows when I *wasn't* home, though. He chain-smokes a particular brand of
cigarettes, and I've found the butts all around the house, up next to it.

I find that, too, disgusting.

>I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better - except he
>didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did straighten up and
>at the age of 45 finished college and has a full time job. So there is
>hope - but someone has often got to force a change.

Sometimes the best thing you can do is free yourself from it. If you set clear
boundaries and people not only don't respect them but escalate their abuse,
sometimes it's the *only* thing you can do.

"So, that's what I did. And I haven't regretted it."

--
Stress is when you wake up screaming, and then realize
that you haven't fallen asleep yet.

Mara

On 2006-05-08, Mike Easter <> wrote:
> Mara wrote:
>
>> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
>> parents.
>
> It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.

He will probably die ~20 years before he "should"...It's a human tragedy.

>
>> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.
>
> You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for everyone,
> a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or rather prevented
> a long time ago -- ie never started.

The only demonstrated technique is "intervention" and, unfortunately, if the
enablers control the turf, it can never occur. It doesn't help if you catch
the person alone (they just run home to Mommy). One has to intervene on the
enablers *first*, and then, once they're on board, you go for the "one".

>
> One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.

Yup. And finally understand (heartbroken) what they allowed to happen.
or maybe not...enablers deserve their own niche independent of the
"one"--they are pretty Fsckd-up, too.

> As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them put
> together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none have the
> ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of them

It's a question, for me, of the stupid little "serenity" prayer...It has to
do with whether I can make a difference or not...end of story. If the
answer is "not"...I walk away and just flip 'em **** when ever *I* feel like
it.

--
"Troll" is a strict analogy, IMO.

Jimchip

On 2006-05-08, Toolman Tim <> wrote:
> In news:445fcf77$0$76118$ reenews.net,
> Mike Easter spewed forth:
>> Mara wrote:
>>
>>> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
>>> parents.
>>
>> It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.
>>
>>> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.
>>
>> You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for
>> everyone, a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or
>> rather prevented a long time ago -- ie never started.
>>
>> One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.
>>
>> As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them
>> put together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none
>> have the ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of
>> them
>
> I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better - except he
> didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did straighten up and
> at the age of 45 finished college and has a full time job. So there is
> hope - but someone has often got to force a change.

Yes, there is hope. And your brother did a lot of what he did "on his own"
though I'm sure he had help. But good for him!

--
One thing "they" need to know is that no one is nearly as condemning as they
think others are about themselves...****, it's a type of psychosis.

Jimchip

In news:,
Jimchip spewed forth:
> On 2006-05-08, Toolman Tim <> wrote:
>> In news:445fcf77$0$76118$ reenews.net,
>> Mike Easter spewed forth:
>>> Mara wrote:
>>>
>>>> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
>>>> parents.
>>>
>>> It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.
>>>
>>>> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.
>>>
>>> You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for
>>> everyone, a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or
>>> rather prevented a long time ago -- ie never started.
>>>
>>> One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.
>>>
>>> As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them
>>> put together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none
>>> have the ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of
>>> them
>>
>> I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better -
>> except he didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did
>> straighten up and at the age of 45 finished college and has a full
>> time job. So there is
>> hope - but someone has often got to force a change.
>
> Yes, there is hope. And your brother did a lot of what he did "on his
> own" though I'm sure he had help. But good for him!

Yup - the help came from parents who finally said "Enough!" and pushed him
out in his mid thirties. Followed by a marriage to someone who expects him
to do the right thing. So once he got the right direction he took off on his
own. But that initial push is a real hard thing to get most people to do.

--
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Toolman Tim

On 2006-05-09, Toolman Tim <> wrote:
> In news:,
> Jimchip spewed forth:

[snip]

>> Yes, there is hope. And your brother did a lot of what he did "on his
>> own" though I'm sure he had help. But good for him!
>
> Yup - the help came from parents who finally said "Enough!" and pushed him
> out in his mid thirties. Followed by a marriage to someone who expects him
> to do the right thing. So once he got the right direction he took off on his
> own.

>But that initial push is a real hard thing to get most people to do.
>--
>Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

"Compression, relaxation"...count..."Compression, relaxation"...

--
Mandatory CPR training

Jimchip

On 2006-05-09, Mara <> wrote:
> On Mon, 8 May 2006 16:33:26 -0700, "Toolman Tim" <>
> wrote:
>
>>In news:445fcf77$0$76118$ reenews.net,
>>Mike Easter spewed forth:
>>> Mara wrote:
>>>
>>>> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
>>>> parents.
>>>
>>> It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.
>>>
>>>> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.
>>>
>>> You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for
>>> everyone, a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or
>>> rather prevented a long time ago -- ie never started.
>>>
>>> One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.
>>>
>>> As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them
>>> put together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none
>>> have the ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of
>>> them
>
> It isn't tragic. It's what they chose. They are the same people who *chose* to
> try to sell me my Grandmother's house a little less than three years ago for
> $40,000, too - when both the assessed value and the fair market value was
> $12,000. It was quite deliberate. So were lies they told my lawyer - lies easily
> disproved.

I disagree...It is tragic, in spite of their choices.
http://www.answers.com/topic/tragic?method=22
tragic (adj)
Definition: catastrophic, very bad
Antonyms: advantageous, blessed, good, happy, successful

The adjective tragic has 2 meanings:
Meaning #1: very sad; especially involving grief or death or destruction
Synonym: tragical
(I nvr nu^^^^^^^
>
> I suppose I should thank them, in a way, though. It was that incident that made
> me wake up and realize that my life would be a *lot* better off without them.
> And it has. Because of that, I have my own home that's about 50 times the house
> my Grandmother's was - and I have peace at home. As for Grandmother, she is in
> my heart wherever I live - her picture is the first thing I see when I walk in
> the front door - and were she alive to have witnessed all the things they have
> done just since I moved back to this town, she would be appalled.
>
> When I found out what was going on, I insisted from that point that anything
> they wished to discuss about the house must be in writing, because I wanted a
> paper trail in case they tried something again. In my last reply to them, when I
> told them that I had bought a different house, I told them that they were
> perfectly welcome to come over and visit me at any time - as long as they
> treated me with respect. I gave them a choice, and stated my boundaries, as is
> right and proper for any self-respecting human being.

Hmmm...sounds like one of my siblings (blood-relative) not the "in-law".

> They have never been to this house to visit in the almost three years I have
> been here, or called. *That* was *their* choice, my mother's actually, and I'm
> satisfied with it, because it saves me what would only be more trouble.
>
> My father *has* come and snooped around the outside of my house and looked in
> the windows when I *wasn't* home, though. He chain-smokes a particular brand of
> cigarettes, and I've found the butts all around the house, up next to it.
>
> I find that, too, disgusting.
>
>>I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better - except he
>>didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did straighten up and
>>at the age of 45 finished college and has a full time job. So there is
>>hope - but someone has often got to force a change.
>
> Sometimes the best thing you can do is free yourself from it. If you set clear
> boundaries and people not only don't respect them but escalate their abuse,
> sometimes it's the *only* thing you can do.
>
> "So, that's what I did. And I haven't regretted it."

You shouldn't. If they ever wake-up, they will regret their behavior. In
situations like that there is little joy in "I told you so".

--
It's a tragedy...admit it.
There's just nothing you can do about it.

Jimchip

On Tue, 09 May 2006 01:26:37 -0000, Jimchip
<> wrote:

<snip>
>I disagree...It is tragic, in spite of their choices.
>http://www.answers.com/topic/tragic?method=22
>tragic (adj)
>Definition: catastrophic, very bad
>Antonyms: advantageous, blessed, good, happy, successful

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. They're quite happy the way they are. As
is usual in these cases, the fault *always* lies with Someone Else(tm).

My mother used to do nothing but complain to me about having to put up with my
brother. He treats my father like dirt. It is *well* within their power to tell
him to either get a job or get the hell out, or both - yet, they do nothing but
complain. Even when *all* the rest of us kids tell them they need to do it.

Why? Because it gives my mother someone right there in the house that she can
control.

That says a lot.

I had to pay $200/month for my grandmother's house. When I moved in, these were
house payments; I was buying the place. When the inside and the yard were done
and the place actually looked like a nice place to live, I was suddenly "paying
rent."

My other brother lives there now. Rent free. Dad even pays some of *his* bills.
As long as they can control his every thought, word, and deed, of course.

No, thanks.

<snip>
>>>I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better - except he
>>>didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did straighten up and
>>>at the age of 45 finished college and has a full time job. So there is
>>>hope - but someone has often got to force a change.
>>
>> Sometimes the best thing you can do is free yourself from it. If you set clear
>> boundaries and people not only don't respect them but escalate their abuse,
>> sometimes it's the *only* thing you can do.
>>
>> "So, that's what I did. And I haven't regretted it."
>
>You shouldn't. If they ever wake-up, they will regret their behavior. In
>situations like that there is little joy in "I told you so".

They won't. I guarantee it. To them, it is my *fault* that I choose to live my
own life. After all these years, they *still* resort to childish, petty, stupid
games to attempt to "punish" me - at my favorite uncle's funeral's funeral, they
would not sit with the family because I did.

"Now that *is* sad. It's also sick - and I want no part of it."

--
Stress is when you wake up screaming, and then realize
that you haven't fallen asleep yet.

Mara