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Question: Do businesses hold any bearing on MCSE Boot Camps?

 
 
Jp Senior
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      09-14-2003
I have been flipping through the net the last few days, and have found
numerous "Boot Camps" and Cram Sessions for MCSE exams. I'm wondering what
kind of signifigance training from these places has for the industry.
Myself, I'm getting extensive training for CCNA, CCNP, MCSE, A+, Network+,
Security+. But I have a feeling I'm going to lose my job to Joe Shmo who
walks in from mcsebootcamp.com.
I figure 2 years of training should be able to get me a job a little better
than this idiot. I also don't really feel that people who buy a book or two
and study it should even be allowed to write a test. It's simply a cash cow
for Microsoft. The truly skilled and trained folks out there get to deal
with people who have drilled 14 days of exam material into their heads, and
can simply only write a test.
That being said, why is Microsoft still willing to allow people with no
hands-on and practical knowledge of the test?
How can I show myself better than Joe Shmo on an application? It's true
that many employers only look for certification, and if certs can be taken
this easily, why should they care about mine?

--
Jp Senior
Network Technician Student
Southern Alberta Institute of Technology

These last few weeks I have been experiening nucleomituphobia. I am truly
afraid for the future of the world. Greenhouse gas, War, Terrorism, Nuclear
Stalemate.. Who will break the nuclear stalemate and end the world? My death
warrant has been signed by a politician...


 
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Rod
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      09-14-2003
You worry to much.

>
> These last few weeks I have been experiening nucleomituphobia. I am truly
> afraid for the future of the world. Greenhouse gas, War, Terrorism,

Nuclear
> Stalemate.. Who will break the nuclear stalemate and end the world? My

death
> warrant has been signed by a politician...
>
>



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/2003


 
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Jon
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      09-14-2003
Hey all, just to say in response...

I have just achieved MCSE in six weeks from an intensive
training course. So - I'm guessing I'm the bad guy, right?
However, I also have 20+ years experience in broadcast TV
engineering and management and I'm looking for a 100%
career change, so my er, 'love' of computer networks (go
figure?) gave me enough grounding to do the exams and
achieve the pass I was after.

However, the point I want to make is this: as and when I
get an IT job based on my recent qualifications, the one
factor I will be most aware of is that I know *nothing*
when it come to the translation of 'exam smarts' into day
to day operation of commercial networks and systems. Right
now I would trade a lot to be able to prove 'x' years in a
commercial networking environment.

The bottom line is this: it's a good old fashioned
competitive world out there, and we're all competing for
the same jobs. However, having looked at more resumes over
the years than you can possibly imagine, when I'm looking
to employ someone I want to see a balance between
qualifications and commercial experience.

I honestly belive that there really are no guaranteed
shortcuts to career promotion or success, intensive
training or otherwise - it's up to the individual to prove
that his or her background and attitude is the right one
for the job they're applying for.

HTH,

Jon
>-----Original Message-----
>"Jp Senior" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

news:<#(E-Mail Removed)>...
>> I have been flipping through the net the last few days,

and have found
>> numerous "Boot Camps" and Cram Sessions for MCSE

exams. I'm wondering what
>> kind of signifigance training from these places has for

the industry.
>> Myself, I'm getting extensive training for CCNA, CCNP,

MCSE, A+, Network+,
>> Security+. But I have a feeling I'm going to lose my

job to Joe Shmo who
>> walks in from mcsebootcamp.com.
>> I figure 2 years of training should be able to get me a

job a little better
>> than this idiot. I also don't really feel that people

who buy a book or two
>> and study it should even be allowed to write a test.

It's simply a cash cow
>> for Microsoft. The truly skilled and trained folks out

there get to deal
>> with people who have drilled 14 days of exam material

into their heads, and
>> can simply only write a test.
>> That being said, why is Microsoft still willing to

allow people with no
>> hands-on and practical knowledge of the test?
>> How can I show myself better than Joe Shmo on an

application? It's true
>> that many employers only look for certification, and if

certs can be taken
>> this easily, why should they care about mine?
>>

>
>Hmm, sounds like pots and kettles to me...
>
>Whilst your comments about bootcamps are generally on the

money,
>consider the case of someone who has lots of real-world

commercial
>hands-on experience (as opposed to sanitised home or

training centre
>labs) - who needs the certs to back up their existing

knowledge and
>experience. Plenty of them would be able to fill in the

holes of their
>MS knowledge in a 14 day bootcamp, and would be a much

better
>candidate than someone with training but no commercial

experience.
>
>If MS were to introduce strict rules as to who could sit

the MCSE
>exams (rather than having exams that would weed out the

braindumpers,
>and crammers), then surely the requirements should be one

year of
>experience administering a network operating system in a
>medium-to-large organization.
>
>http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcse/faq.asp
>Q. Who should become certified as an MCSE in Windows 2000?
>A. The MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000 credential is

appropriate for IT
>professionals working in the typically complex computing

environment
>of medium-to-large organizations. We recommend that an

MCSE on Windows
>2000 have at least one year of experience implementing and
>administering a network operating system.
>
>You do have that experience don't you ?
>.
>

 
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=?iso-8859-1?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?=
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-15-2003
"Andy Foster" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> Whilst your comments about bootcamps are generally on the money,
> consider the case of someone who has lots of real-world commercial
> hands-on experience (as opposed to sanitised home or training centre
> labs) - who needs the certs to back up their existing knowledge and
> experience. Plenty of them would be able to fill in the holes of their
> MS knowledge in a 14 day bootcamp, and would be a much better
> candidate than someone with training but no commercial experience.


Wow... I thought I was the only MCNGP who had this attitude about boot
camps.

Compadre!

> If MS were to introduce strict rules as to who could sit the MCSE
> exams (rather than having exams that would weed out the braindumpers,
> and crammers), then surely the requirements should be one year of
> experience administering a network operating system in a
> medium-to-large organization.


I'd add even small organization there. Someone just starting out would need
to do volunteer work, and I wouldn't consider most libraries and/or schools
to necessarily be medium or large organizations. I agree on the one-year
experience, though.

> http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcse/faq.asp
> Q. Who should become certified as an MCSE in Windows 2000?
> A. The MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000 credential is appropriate for IT
> professionals working in the typically complex computing environment
> of medium-to-large organizations. We recommend that an MCSE on Windows
> 2000 have at least one year of experience implementing and
> administering a network operating system.


I can understand why the medium to large, since that's the kind of business
that would need to employ MCSE's in the first place, but I still think it
would be more difficult for someone breaking into the field to get
experience, even volunteer, in larger companies.

Perhaps a school system might meet those needs, however.

--
Fris "Will Engineer For Food" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help


>
> You do have that experience don't you ?


 
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Andy Foster
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      09-15-2003
Frisbee® MCNGP <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<#(E-Mail Removed)>...
>
> > If MS were to introduce strict rules as to who could sit the MCSE
> > exams (rather than having exams that would weed out the braindumpers,
> > and crammers), then surely the requirements should be one year of
> > experience administering a network operating system in a
> > medium-to-large organization.

>
> I'd add even small organization there. Someone just starting out would need
> to do volunteer work, and I wouldn't consider most libraries and/or schools
> to necessarily be medium or large organizations. I agree on the one-year
> experience, though.
>
>


Fris, you seem to have missed the point (although in other
circumstances your comments would be right on the money...)

The OP is spending loads of money to become a paper MCSE (in that
he'll have the certs but no experience to back it up), and wants to
stop others doing him out of a job by doing the same, but without
spending so much money.
*If* there are going to be rules about who can and cannot take the
exams, MS' guidlines would be as good a place to start as any.

As certs are next to worthless without experience, as regards getting
a half decent job in IT, your suggestion about volunteer work has
potential.
 
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