"Herb Martin" <> wrote in message
> "Lady" <> wrote in message
> > I TOTALLY agree with you. My initial salary was set based on my degree
> > certifications. But my later raises were a combination of additional
> > and performance.
> The most common mistakes a job seeker makes in reference
> to salary:
> 1) Telling their current salary
> 2) Trying to negotiate the salary before negotiating the position
> Most people are unable to deal with "What do you make now?"
> or "What salary do you expect?".
> Saying, "Oh, but I have to answer if they ask." No you don't.
> Learn from the politicians how to dodge a question (that is
> actually inappropriate -- it's actually none of their business) without
> lying or even seeming to dodge.
> The most generally effective strategy is to answer, "Let's first figure
> out exactly what I work I will be doing for you and then we can
> figure out what the job should pay."
> This answer does a number of things, it presupposes they will hire
> you (good sales closing technique) and that no further salary "talk"
> can occur until that decision is made. You should also follow it
> with a relevant question to give the hiring manager something to
> say, "What exactly are you looking for in the employee that you
> hire for this job?" (Listen carefully and even take notes on the
> WORDS you hear and somewhere later in the conversation offer
> any evidence you have of those qualities using the EXACT
> Now, assuming they are make a hiring decision -- you say,
> "What's this job pay?" WRONG!!!!
> You find out (ahead of time if possible, by asking directly if
> necessary) what the job "ranks" or "levels" are at this company.
> Now you say, "At what level will I be joining?", or "What level
> is this job?" (try to use THEIR word for 'level' so their is no
> mistaking the question.
> Let's say, the manager responds, "The job is a Level 9." (Or 14,
> or Senior Systems Analyst, Associate Computer Analysis, or whatever.)
> IF you have done your homework and can back up your skills
> with evidence, you negotiate NOT for salary but for LEVEL.
> If you up the level the salary ranges returned by the HR department
> will go up AUTOMATICALLY. No talk of money is really necessary.
> If you take a lower level, everything will be lower from now on in
> your career with this company and possible in your NEXT job.
> Stock options, salary, bonuses, everything will start lower, have lower
> caps on raises etc, until you are promoted. If you get promoted in
> 3-5 years, you might just have well been promoted FROM the next
> higher level instead of TO that level.
> Ok, I have given away my main secret for getting more money at
> job hiring interviews. Do with it what you will, but be very certain
> that it is almost infallible and even when it doesn't work it hurts
> nothing...your fallback position is a promise of a PROMOTION review
> in N months/years.
> "Ok, I understand that the only available job is a level 11, when would
> my review for promotion occur?"
> A commitment, even a verbal promise, is much better than ambiguity.
> (If you can get it in writing in the hiring contract, so much the better;
> and yes, you CAN ask.)
> Herb Martin
> PS> Don't tell the HR departments or managers that I told you this
> stuff. <grin>