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Thinking about MCSE. Could use some help.

 
 
Politician Spock
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      08-07-2003
responses inline...

"billyw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> i'd agree that many HR depts are run on half baked ideas so therefore i
> agree with your las comments
>


I agree. HR depts many times have no idea how to find what is needed for the
job.

> but put simply a college education does not instantly make someone

suitable
> for all jobs, all it shows is an ability for retention. not for adaptation
> or inovation.


I never claimed it would. However, I do disagree somewhat. Part of a higher
education is "learning how to learn". An inexperienced college educated
person will have an easier time learning the non-microsoft related tasks of
a job than an inexperience uneducated MCSE. Though the MCSE can hit the
ground running at the start where the college person won't, in the long run
the college educated person will eventually surpass the MCSE on the job.
Unless the job you are hiring for is short term, or is completely Microsoft
tasks only, the immediate benefit of the MCSE does not outweigh the longterm
benefit of the college person.

> would you say that someone who has been a car mechanic all his life and
> fully understands the workings of thge internal combustion engine is less
> educated than a brain surgeon...


No, but it's a moot point because it doesn't relate to an inexperienced MCSE
an in inexperienced college grad. Experience *IS* an education.

> they may be leaders in their chosen field therefore they are aware of what
> they are aware of.. college educations should never be taken as a
> significant sign of intelligence.. look at george bush, he has an mba..

that
> is just a sign of wealth
>
>


I never said it is a significant sign of intelligence. It is an issue of who
is better prepared to work in the industry.

--
Politician Spock
MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.


 
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billyw
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      08-07-2003
i view things in a more general way.. for instance the way we measure IQ is
a joke.. you'd be as well testing for tall people.
as for the ability to learn, well that is more a confidence thing than
anything else (with most people). have you ever read a text book from around
1901, according to that women were stupid and anyone not white was even
thicker... is that the case today (or then for that matter), no because
women now have the confidence to learn and progress, where previously there
was none... so no the college thing doesn't tech you to learn it teaches you
to have confidence in your own abilities.


"Politician Spock" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> responses inline...
>
> "billyw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > i'd agree that many HR depts are run on half baked ideas so therefore i
> > agree with your las comments
> >

>
> I agree. HR depts many times have no idea how to find what is needed for

the
> job.
>
> > but put simply a college education does not instantly make someone

> suitable
> > for all jobs, all it shows is an ability for retention. not for

adaptation
> > or inovation.

>
> I never claimed it would. However, I do disagree somewhat. Part of a

higher
> education is "learning how to learn". An inexperienced college educated
> person will have an easier time learning the non-microsoft related tasks

of
> a job than an inexperience uneducated MCSE. Though the MCSE can hit the
> ground running at the start where the college person won't, in the long

run
> the college educated person will eventually surpass the MCSE on the job.
> Unless the job you are hiring for is short term, or is completely

Microsoft
> tasks only, the immediate benefit of the MCSE does not outweigh the

longterm
> benefit of the college person.
>
> > would you say that someone who has been a car mechanic all his life and
> > fully understands the workings of thge internal combustion engine is

less
> > educated than a brain surgeon...

>
> No, but it's a moot point because it doesn't relate to an inexperienced

MCSE
> an in inexperienced college grad. Experience *IS* an education.
>
> > they may be leaders in their chosen field therefore they are aware of

what
> > they are aware of.. college educations should never be taken as a
> > significant sign of intelligence.. look at george bush, he has an mba..

> that
> > is just a sign of wealth
> >
> >

>
> I never said it is a significant sign of intelligence. It is an issue of

who
> is better prepared to work in the industry.
>
> --
> Politician Spock
> MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

rights.
> You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
> understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
>
>



 
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billyw
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-07-2003
what we still dont have half the planet???


they are great reads... i have to agree..

"Jtyc" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > anything else (with most people). have you ever read a text book from

> around
> > 1901, according to that women were stupid and anyone not white was even

>
> I have a history book circa 1910 at home. It's absolutely fascinating.
> Europe was much easier to learn then... German Empire, Austria-Hungarian
> Empire, Russian Empire, etc.. Great Britain still claimed half the

planet.
>
>



 
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billyw
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-07-2003
wrong.. there are people with MCSE's that are in their late 30's and above
that quite frankly wipe the floor with some 20 odd something stuck up arse

"Politician Spock" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "billyw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > i view things in a more general way.. for instance the way we measure IQ

> is
> > a joke.. you'd be as well testing for tall people.
> > as for the ability to learn, well that is more a confidence thing than
> > anything else (with most people). have you ever read a text book from

> around
> > 1901, according to that women were stupid and anyone not white was even
> > thicker... is that the case today (or then for that matter), no because
> > women now have the confidence to learn and progress, where previously

> there
> > was none... so no the college thing doesn't tech you to learn it teaches

> you
> > to have confidence in your own abilities.
> >
> >

>
> Six of one, half a dozen of the other. It's still an attribute more
> inexperienced college grads will posses than inexperienced MCSE's.
>
> > "Politician Spock" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > responses inline...
> > >
> > > "billyw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > i'd agree that many HR depts are run on half baked ideas so

therefore
> i
> > > > agree with your las comments
> > > >
> > >
> > > I agree. HR depts many times have no idea how to find what is needed

for
> > the
> > > job.
> > >
> > > > but put simply a college education does not instantly make someone
> > > suitable
> > > > for all jobs, all it shows is an ability for retention. not for

> > adaptation
> > > > or inovation.
> > >
> > > I never claimed it would. However, I do disagree somewhat. Part of a

> > higher
> > > education is "learning how to learn". An inexperienced college

educated
> > > person will have an easier time learning the non-microsoft related

tasks
> > of
> > > a job than an inexperience uneducated MCSE. Though the MCSE can hit

the
> > > ground running at the start where the college person won't, in the

long
> > run
> > > the college educated person will eventually surpass the MCSE on the

job.
> > > Unless the job you are hiring for is short term, or is completely

> > Microsoft
> > > tasks only, the immediate benefit of the MCSE does not outweigh the

> > longterm
> > > benefit of the college person.
> > >
> > > > would you say that someone who has been a car mechanic all his life

> and
> > > > fully understands the workings of thge internal combustion engine is

> > less
> > > > educated than a brain surgeon...
> > >
> > > No, but it's a moot point because it doesn't relate to an

inexperienced
> > MCSE
> > > an in inexperienced college grad. Experience *IS* an education.
> > >
> > > > they may be leaders in their chosen field therefore they are aware

of
> > what
> > > > they are aware of.. college educations should never be taken as a
> > > > significant sign of intelligence.. look at george bush, he has an

> mba..
> > > that
> > > > is just a sign of wealth
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I never said it is a significant sign of intelligence. It is an issue

of
> > who
> > > is better prepared to work in the industry.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Politician Spock
> > > MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> > > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
> > >
> > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

> > rights.
> > > You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability

to
> > > understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> > > living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> > > 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>



 
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Jtyc
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-07-2003
> wrong.. there are people with MCSE's that are in their late 30's and above
> that quite frankly wipe the floor with some 20 odd something stuck up arse


I like the intangibles that a prior military person brings to the table.


 
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Keyboard Cowboy
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-07-2003
including the navy boys? lol



>-----Original Message-----
>> wrong.. there are people with MCSE's that are in their

late 30's and above
>> that quite frankly wipe the floor with some 20 odd

something stuck up arse
>
>I like the intangibles that a prior military person

brings to the table.
>
>
>.
>

 
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Politician Spock
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-07-2003
"billyw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> wrong.. there are people with MCSE's that are in their late 30's and above
> that quite frankly wipe the floor with some 20 odd something stuck up arse
>



I don't know anyone in their late 30's that aren't experienced. For someone
who is speaking "in general" you are certainly focusing on a small fraction
of the populace.

--
Politician Spock
MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.

 
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Jtyc
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-07-2003
> including the navy boys? lol

Everyone except them.


 
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billyw
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-07-2003
rather large fraction considering the west's aging populations

"Politician Spock" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> "billyw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > wrong.. there are people with MCSE's that are in their late 30's and

above
> > that quite frankly wipe the floor with some 20 odd something stuck up

arse
> >

>
>
> I don't know anyone in their late 30's that aren't experienced. For

someone
> who is speaking "in general" you are certainly focusing on a small

fraction
> of the populace.
>
> --
> Politician Spock
> MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

rights.
> You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
> understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
>



 
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billyw
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-07-2003
funnily i my exp. ex mil people are either really good workers, or
disastrously bad...

"Jtyc" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > wrong.. there are people with MCSE's that are in their late 30's and

above
> > that quite frankly wipe the floor with some 20 odd something stuck up

arse
>
> I like the intangibles that a prior military person brings to the table.
>
>



 
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