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I heard from a friend that C++ is mainly being replaced as language of
choice for most C++ programmers around the world. I guess this makes
sence as it means that when learning you dont have to **** around
sencelessly with low level garbage like pointers. I was going to learn
C++ but if times are changing I think I will just learn C#, it seems
more modern. I also thought about Java but its WAY too slow. I think
it should be easy to learn as I have heaps of experience making complex
programs using all versions of Visual Basic.

Any comparisons out there?

Thanks
The Grand Master

Master Programmer wrote:
> I heard from a friend that C++ is mainly being replaced as language of
> choice for most C++ programmers around the world. I guess this makes
> sence as it means that when learning you dont have to **** around
> sencelessly with low level garbage like pointers. I was going to learn
> C++ but if times are changing I think I will just learn C#, it seems
> more modern. I also thought about Java but its WAY too slow. I think
> it should be easy to learn as I have heaps of experience making complex
> programs using all versions of Visual Basic.
>
> Any comparisons out there?
>

You call pointers garbage, but it depends what you put in them.

I am yet to see a microsoft product that does not crash. I crashed every
their **** I touched. They probably hire bunch of monkeys to program
their software

It all depends what are your preferences, and what you want to do. If
you hate pointers go for java, but I have to agree its slow. I didnt
try c# and probably will not see it for a while, but I see some people
are happy with it.
Tried searching for "c++ vs c#" ?

Master Programmer wrote:

> I heard from a friend that C++ is mainly being replaced as language of
> choice for most C++ programmers around the world.

That is mostly hype. Yes, for some tasks C# can be a good tool if you really
don't need all the horsepower of C++.

Unless java, C# has the using statement to provide some degree object
lifecycle control, but it is still to primitive to rely on it for all
resource management.

When Java first appeared, the enthusiasm for GC was so high that all over
the place we read: "The need for the programmer, to do bookeeping are gone,
just allocate and forget, GC will take care". Many beginners did just that,
and saw their software locking, hanging, crashing or having unexpected
behaviors. Well, the memory is not the single critical resource one use
inside an object. You often open a file, a named semaphore or pipe, a
socket and so on. This are resources that you can not allow the GC to take
care of them at his own will, when he feel so.

So, the classical C++ paradigm:

x=new X(); ..... do work here .....; delete x;

has become in Java:

x=new X(); ..... do work here .....; x->Dispose();

The same amount of bookkeeping is required, and the task is a bit more
tedious. Because in C++ you know that every new must eventually "be closed"
by a delete. In java and C# you actually need to keep track of disposable
or non disposable objects.

And if you look and see that the intensive use of STL containers, smart
pointers and a carefull design can help you not to care (too much) about
deleting objects, the C++ seems like the paradigm winer here.

I often use to say: whenever complain about lack of GC in C++ don't really
understand programming to well. The creators of Java and C# being included
in this category too.

> I guess this makes
> sence as it means that when learning you dont have to **** around
> sencelessly with low level garbage like pointers.

I often use to say: whenever complain about lack of GC in C++ don't really
understand programming to well.

> I was going to learn
> C++ but if times are changing I think I will just learn C#, it seems
> more modern.

I would name it "overhyped" but that is the whole point. Marketing sells.

> I also thought about Java but its WAY too slow.

Is getting better all the times. Yes, it is a bit slow but definitely not
the horror story it was 10 years ago.

And also, now it is open source. This will guarantee that no company will
mess up with java agenda. C# specs can be changes by MS at all any time.
Also, they launch the new specs only when they are ready to get with a new
version on the market.

That creates an about 2 year gap betwen MS.NET and Mono project. Since most
programmers like to try the newest tools to take advantage of the new
stuff, this create a portability gap betwen the software running on Windows
and on Mono.

Most Windows programmers are also not very well educated about the
portability issues (or don't care about them) so their code is littered
with PInvoke and hardcoded path strings like "C:\\Windows\\...". This kind
of idiotic code will not run on other OS despite the existence of a
compatible .NET engine there. Java programmers on the other side are
"evangelised" about portability from cradle and java library is more
complete than .NET so you don't need to use (that often) OS specific calls.
As a result, the average java code it is way way way more portable than C#
code.

Because we don't live into a closed world, and because the technology evolve
rapidly, and because smart people don't like to be handcuffed by a
particular vendor, I strongly recommend Java over C# if you don't like C++.

> I think
> it should be easy to learn as I have heaps of experience making complex
> programs using all versions of Visual Basic.

A VB guy actually complaining about Java speed ?

> Any comparisons out there?

Yes. C++ rules, Java suck but you should always prefer Java instead of C#.

Master Programmer:

> I heard from a friend that C++ is mainly being replaced as language of
> choice for most C++ programmers around the world. I guess this makes
> sence as it means that when learning you dont have to f*** around
> sencelessly with low level garbage like pointers.


(We curse for a reason. If you blend them through your regular everyday
speech, you reduce their efficacy when actually feel a need to use them.
And it's unpleasant to the untrained ear.)

It really depends how dumb a programmer you want to be. You program in the
likes of Java and Visual Basic without having a bull's notion of how
computers actually work (e.g. CPU registers).

If you don't know how redirection works (i.e. pointers), then you're not a
programmer in my books.



> I was going to learn
> C++ but if times are changing I think I will just learn C#, it seems
> more modern. I also thought about Java but its WAY too slow. I think
> it should be easy to learn as I have heaps of experience making complex
> programs using all versions of Visual Basic.


C# is just another half-baked atrocity from Microsoft. If were to give
programming advice to a beginner, I'd tell them to stay WELL AWAY from
Microsoft.

I use C++ for every programming purpose. If I can't find a C++ compiler for
my platform, then I program in C.

Other than that, I'd write the odd bit of assembly.

--

Frederick Gotham

Frederick Gotham wrote:
> Master Programmer:
>
> > I heard from a friend that C++ is mainly being replaced as language of
> > choice for most C++ programmers around the world. I guess this makes
> > sence as it means that when learning you dont have to f*** around
> > sencelessly with low level garbage like pointers.
>
>
> (We curse for a reason. If you blend them through your regular everyday
> speech, you reduce their efficacy when actually feel a need to use them.
> And it's unpleasant to the untrained ear.)
>
> It really depends how dumb a programmer you want to be. You program in the
> likes of Java and Visual Basic without having a bull's notion of how
> computers actually work (e.g. CPU registers).

I think that makes sense when you are working on a manageable size
system. Once you get into larger scale stuff you really don't want to
know about it I reckon. Optimisation can wait.

What Java and Visual Basic and C# are about is getting common tasks
done easily in their domain A lot of the stuff is helpful utilities
like source code documentation and reflection which make life much less
tedious... and comprehensive libraries

IMO C++ doesnt pay enough attention to the basics like this and because
it is so hard to learn in the first place that is more important than
for other languages. OTOH after becoming proficient in C++, my
experience of programming in VB or Java is that its a pretty sad
business. VB is incredibly verbose from waht I remember and AFAIK Java
basically does do "evrythings an object" but you cant work properly
with value types .

However for the VB Java and C# programmers out there I guess its a case
of if you never had it you won't miss it ! Maybe though there is the
odd one that thinks... hmm I wish I could do... and then maybe they
will see what C++ is about.

regards
Andy Little

On Nov 21, 5:09 pm, "kwikius" <a...@servocomm.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Frederick Gotham wrote:
> > Master Programmer:
>
> > > I heard from a friend that C++ is mainly being replaced as language of
> > > choice for most C++ programmers around the world. I guess this makes
> > > sence as it means that when learning you dont have to f*** around
> > > sencelessly with low level garbage like pointers.
>
> > (We curse for a reason. If you blend them through your regular everyday
> > speech, you reduce their efficacy when actually feel a need to use them.
> > And it's unpleasant to the untrained ear.)
>
> > It really depends how dumb a programmer you want to be. You program in the
> > likes of Java and Visual Basic without having a bull's notion of how
> > computers actually work (e.g. CPU registers).I think that makes sense when you are working on a manageable size
> system. Once you get into larger scale stuff you really don't want to
> know about it I reckon. Optimisation can wait.
>
> What Java and Visual Basic and C# are about is getting common tasks
> done easily in their domain A lot of the stuff is helpful utilities
> like source code documentation and reflection which make life much less
> tedious... and comprehensive libraries
>
> IMO C++ doesnt pay enough attention to the basics like this and because
> it is so hard to learn in the first place that is more important than
> for other languages. OTOH after becoming proficient in C++, my
> experience of programming in VB or Java is that its a pretty sad
> business. VB is incredibly verbose from waht I remember and AFAIK Java
> basically does do "evrythings an object" but you cant work properly
> with value types .
>
> However for the VB Java and C# programmers out there I guess its a case
> of if you never had it you won't miss it ! Maybe though there is the
> odd one that thinks... hmm I wish I could do... and then maybe they
> will see what C++ is about.
>
> regards
> Andy Little- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

I see you are perfectly executed here.So let me put it short ower
needs responsiblity and C++ gives you the power.Choice is up to you .I
believe that C# is
better than VB _ after all it is immitating(steeling) C++`s syntax.BUT
replacing C++ with C# looks like a joke.things are easier with C# if
you wanna beg uncle BILLY all the time.but if you wanna live
independent...C++ still wins.

Master Programmer wrote:
> I heard from a friend that C++ is mainly being replaced as language of
> choice for most C++ programmers around the world.

The only kernel of truth in that is that Microsoft has decided to
depricate win32 and so the only way to run truely native code will be
with the .NET framework. This means C++/CL or some other .net
language. There is still billions of lines of code in C++ on other
platforms though.

> Thanks
> The Grand Master

That's a pretty dubious title.

On 21 Nov 2006 01:32:09 -0800, "Master Programmer"
<> wrote in comp.lang.c++:

> I heard from a friend that C++ is mainly being replaced as language of
> choice for most C++ programmers around the world. I guess this makes
> sence as it means that when learning you dont have to **** around

*plonk*

--
Jack Klein
Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
FAQs for
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comp.lang.c++ http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~a...FAQ-acllc.html

Jack Klein wrote:
> On 21 Nov 2006 01:32:09 -0800, "Master Programmer"
> <> wrote in comp.lang.c++:
>
>> I heard from a friend that C++ is mainly being replaced as language of
>> choice for most C++ programmers around the world. I guess this makes
>> sence as it means that when learning you dont have to **** around
>
> *plonk*
>

<HUMOR>
Hey, Jack, don't plonk the guy. He must know what he's talking about,
after all, he's a "Master Programmer".
</HUMOR>

(Humor tags added for the humor impaired, in compliance with the ADA).

DragonSt0rm wrote:

> So, the classical C++ paradigm:
>
> x=new X(); ..... do work here .....; delete x;

This is a C++ paradigm?
Looks more like a C one to me.

This is an example of the kind of things you must not do in C++.