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How does this group benefit MCSE's and candidates.

 
 
Maestro
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-07-2003
Most of you in the MCNGP prove this to be true on a regular basis.

"FrisbeeŽ MCNGP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "billyw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > "Techie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:NV4Oa.6646$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Garbage In Garbage Out but you probably are so new to computers that

you
> > > have never heard that term.
> > >

> > huh??
> >

>
> GIGO.
>
> As he stated... You provide garbage as input, you get garbage as output.
>
> Are you really that new, Billy, or is this not something they say in
> ENGLAND?
>
>
> --
> Fris "Oops, I meant IRELAND" beeŽ MCNGP #13
>
> http://www.mcngp.tk
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>



 
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Consultant
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-07-2003
you didn't hear? he was nominated as protector


"Maestro" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Why do you think that we have to subscribe to your definition of a dumb
> question? ...and who made you the protector of the integrity of this
> newsgroup?
>
> "Andy Foster" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > "Jeffrey Reed" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

> news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> > > Today is the 5th time I have attempted to read this group. Each time I

> start
> > > reading I end up spending just about the whole time reading nonsense.

Is
> > > there a newsgroup for serious MCSE's and candidates?
> > >
> > > -jr

> >
> > If people post dumb questions, it is likely they will receive
> > appropriate replies.
> > If anyone ever posts a sensible question, it is also likely that they
> > will receive an appropriate reply.
> >
> > If you'd care to start the ball rolling ...
> >
> > Andy

>
>



 
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Consultant
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-07-2003
my youngest son is 6 and is not new to computers.

"Maestro" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Since when does being new to computers constitute an offence? I'm sure

you
> didn't just wake up one morning knew this stuff (assuming that you do).
>
> "Techie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:NV4Oa.6646$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Garbage In Garbage Out but you probably are so new to computers that you
> > have never heard that term.
> >
> > --
> > Techie
> > A+, Network+, MCP, MCNGP #21
> >
> > "Jeffrey Reed" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Today is the 5th time I have attempted to read this group. Each time I

> > start
> > > reading I end up spending just about the whole time reading nonsense.

Is
> > > there a newsgroup for serious MCSE's and candidates?
> > >
> > > -jr
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



 
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JaR
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      07-07-2003

Maestro wrote in message ...
>Since when does being new to computers constitute an offence? <SNIP>


It doesn't.

However, coming into a froup that is dedicated to MCSE and not having a clue
as to what it means, not having the basic knowlege that the MCSE is supposed
to represent, and not having made any effort on your own to determine what
that knowlege shoud consist of, is. The regulars on this NG have on many
occasions provided help with legitimate dicussions related to the subject in
question. Post a question related to DNS, Subnetting, Groups, Software,
Hardware, etc. and there will be no end of helpful and insightful responses.
(Just do a little research first).

Post a question that can be answered by the most *basic* research, like
"when does win 2K expire?" "Will I be an MCSE if I pass 70-$$$?", ad
infinitum, ad nauseum, and you are not qualified to be an MCSE. You may be
able to pass the tests, but you have not the temperment or the mindset to
work on computers, let alone design or administer a network.

Contrary to the prevailing attitude in the business, MCSE should *not* mean
Must Consult Someone Else.

'kay, I'm done

J.R. Jones MCNGP #22
MCSA, A+ Net+




 
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KLXrider
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-07-2003
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:20:35 -0700, "JaR" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>However, coming into a froup


froup.....I hate froup
 
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|{evin
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-07-2003
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:45:22 -0700, "Maestro" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>The purpose for some of those people you're referring to coming here is to
>learn the basics. There are people out there that have a genuine interest,
>but don't know newsgroup etiquette, or don't know that questions have been
>asked before, or whatever the case may be. As an example someone may ask,
>how do I perform a certain function. They're then summarily flamed because
>the question has been asked many times before, or they could have found the
>answer if they did some research on their own. I'll agree that some
>questions do deserve the response the get (although I disagree that it needs
>to be given in the manner that it is), but if you were sitting in on a class
>and asked a teacher a question, how would you feel if the teacher flamed you
>because someone asked the same question last class, and the class before
>that, etc? The purpose of these newsgroups is for people with similar
>interest to gather and exchange information. Sometimes that means answering
>the same question more than once. For those that don't have that kind of
>patience they don't have to respond. It seems that the same people that do
>the flaming for dumb or repeated questions have no problem with devoting a
>considerable amount of energy to "nonsense" as the original poster noted.
>


1) Top posting is bad, mkay?

2) People that have to ask "what are the requirements" or "where can I
get info" have no business being an MCSE.

3) I purposely TRY to drive away people. If you're 15... you can't be
an MCSE.. if you're a career changer.. you CAN'T be an MCSE. The point
of the MCSE is to prove that you know your ****. Career changers,
McJobbers and the like don't have the experience... go away... try
again when you've logged the hours.

4) Grow some skin... if you were to ask some of the questions that get
asked here... when a simple google search would have yielded the
answer.. in the field, you 'd get more than a smartass reply... you'd
get a ticket to unemployment. The net isn't warm and fuzzy.

5) The 'nonsense' provides humor for those of us that have a clue.


 
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|{evin
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-07-2003
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:52:34 -0700, "Maestro" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Most of you in the MCNGP prove this to be true on a regular basis.


Jealousy is such an ugly thing..

 
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JaR
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      07-07-2003
KLXrider wrote in message <(E-Mail Removed)>...
>
>>However, coming into a froup

>
>froup.....I hate froup


Aw, c'mon, not even with chipotle sauce???

J.R. Jones


 
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Zenner
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-07-2003
The question is "How does this group benefit MCSE's and candidates (Wanna
bees)"?

Whether everyone realizes it or not, there is a news group to address the
concerns of MCSA's, as well as another that is meant to address the
concerns of MCP's. Believe it or not there are also groups that address
almost every concern that may come up concerning every Microsoft product.
Yet, probably due the name recognition of "MCSE"; this newsgroup is
inundated with off topic posts. The title is certification, examination,
MCSE...take a good look at the last 2 -3 days worth of posts..how many are
really on topic?

Not that there is anything wrong with that. But, since you brought it up?

Your question should be how do we convince 1st time users to address their
questions to the proper group, instead of using MCSE NG as a catch all for
unimaginative, lazy, and unappreciative non-MCSE's who want to be spoon-fed
answers, then complain about the lack of opportunities and general lack of
credibility for newly minted MCSE. Could it be that you are eating to high
on the food chain?

When I was learning to play Chess, I didn't ask a Grand master to give me
tips, explain the acceptable moves for each piece or ask whether this is a
good game to learn to play? I played with others at my level, until I was
consistently beating them, then moved up to stronger players. I didn't
complain when the really good players chose not to play with me or offered
"terse" advice...that I needed to be seasoned in the lower ranks before
playing with the big boys.

You question is valid, "How does this newsgroup Help MCSE's?"...it doesn't.
You should already be an MCSE when you come here, what it should do is allow
a forum to address things that interest MCSE's. Things like, How can we
restore or improve the credibility of the MCSE certificated Professionals.
How we address the subject of cheating and cheaters or what is an acceptable
way to influence a certified MCSE who seems to have a less than adequate
grasp of his (or her claimed skill set). IF we do not start to police our
own house, I doubt if certification will be anything other than wallpaper
within 2-3 years.

A wink and a nod to incompetence is not doing any of us any good. Maybe we
should have a review board. For example; What if by a vote of some
reasonable number of current MCSE's, 3 - 5 seems like a good number, made a
complaint to Microsoft, the person would be give a "free" recertification
test? He could choose not to take the test, but would lose his
certification. IF he passed the re-certification, the referring parties
would be subject to a minimal fine, say $50...just to cut down on frivolous
or malicious actions.

How would that sound? Anyone have better, different or other ideas? Let's
put up or shut up! Quit whining and make some proposal of how to make things
better or get out of the game.

Oh, yea. If your sensibilities are bruised when you ask for help. Then learn
how to do things for yourself. Obviously someone wrote the books, the
questions, the tests, even the programs, OS and utilities are man-made. Are
you really eager to admit that someone else is "That" much smarter than you?

"Jeffrey Reed" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Today is the 5th time I have attempted to read this group. Each time I

start
> reading I end up spending just about the whole time reading nonsense. Is
> there a newsgroup for serious MCSE's and candidates?
>
> -jr
>
>



 
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Beoweolf
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-08-2003
If a teacher, who is "PAID", to teach flames you, then you have the
foundation for a complaint. If you ask your friend where are your glasses
and they are parked on the top of your head...then you will get ridiculed.
We all love a pratfall, it may not be funny to the victim, but is to a sense
of relief to other who watch it. 'Cause it wasn't them. Too many
"self-esteem" classes and "no dumb questions" pronouncements have given some
people a false expectation of what its like in the real world.

If someone is kind enough to help or teach you something, you should be
respectful enough to pay attention. If you are too busy playing with your
game boy or contemplating your navel, then you missed the boat, it is now
"your" job to catch up, on '"your" time. Why should those that paid
attention, did their own research or studied be forced to advance at your
pace?

Most MCSE's who frequent this NG, do so on their own time. They want to
help, they want to challenge, and freshen their skills by taking on
questions and situations that tax their mind. They do it for free, to help
the new guys...it's kind of selfish, 'cause someday, we may have to work
with you, so imagine the frustration and disappointment of seeing the
questions mainly focus on what books to read, where are the dumps, which
classes do I need to take. All the should be common sense and readily
available with just a little bit of effort using a browser.
"Maestro" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> The purpose for some of those people you're referring to coming here is to
> learn the basics. There are people out there that have a genuine

interest,
> but don't know newsgroup etiquette, or don't know that questions have been
> asked before, or whatever the case may be. As an example someone may ask,
> how do I perform a certain function. They're then summarily flamed

because
> the question has been asked many times before, or they could have found

the
> answer if they did some research on their own. I'll agree that some
> questions do deserve the response the get (although I disagree that it

needs
> to be given in the manner that it is), but if you were sitting in on a

class
> and asked a teacher a question, how would you feel if the teacher flamed

you
> because someone asked the same question last class, and the class before
> that, etc? The purpose of these newsgroups is for people with similar
> interest to gather and exchange information. Sometimes that means

answering
> the same question more than once. For those that don't have that kind of
> patience they don't have to respond. It seems that the same people that

do
> the flaming for dumb or repeated questions have no problem with devoting a
> considerable amount of energy to "nonsense" as the original poster noted.
>
> "|{evin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 07:54:06 -0700, "Jeffrey Reed"
> > <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> > >Today is the 5th time I have attempted to read this group. Each time I

> start
> > >reading I end up spending just about the whole time reading nonsense.

Is
> > >there a newsgroup for serious MCSE's and candidates?
> > >
> > >-jr
> > >

> >
> > Yes, this is it. We just get a lot of noise from people who can't be
> > bothered with learning the basics first.
> >
> >

>
>



 
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