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I don't agree at all, because a Certification exam at first glance validates
the basic skills and habilities of a determined subject.
If a job candidate is a real developer (either windows or web) the employer
may require demos. In my case, two prospective employers required demos from
me, and the best way to show them, is give the URLS of the websites I have
developed in other companies, and also, a demo of my coding style.
If a job candidate can give those demos, it would be more than sufficient to
demonstrate and validate what the resume, interview and the papers say.

I took recently the 70-315 exam, and I didn't pass it with shining scores,
however, I have a live website running under ASP.NET for one of my
customers, and at the same time, I'm migrating (aka rewriting) the ASP
project into ASP.NET, and I can defend my point, that if a developer can
demonstrate what he claims to know with live websites, or software projects
developed, who the hell would care about your score?

"David Kavanagh" <> wrote in message
news:Y6GdnR2cKrN2yIreRVn-...
>I think that is true but some employers now believe that the MS Certs are
> too easy to pass and so are looking at your score. I know when I did mine
> at
> a Pearson Vue test center, I was given a printed transcript which included
> my actual score (broken down into different categories). This transcript
> also included an authentication code that an employer can type in to the
> Pearson Vue website to confirm that it is genuine. The Microsoft
> transcripts
> though only include a pass/failure, presumably because Microsoft think
> that
> a pass should be sufficient.
>
> In an earlier discussion on this newsgroup, a number of people were
> debating
> whether certification was good for your career. I noticed that a couple of
> people mentioned that, as recruiters, they would regard it as a negative
> point if someone just scraped a pass and they would have been better off
> not
> mentioning it at all.
>
> Regards,
> David.

Good point. No matter how good your score is, it is never going to be a
replacement for a proven track record. It may however, help you to get the
interview in the first place. At that point the certs become pretty
irrelevent as the interviewer will access your technical (and non-technical)
skills for themselves - often by looking at your past work.

I guess the point that I was making is that if there is a trend for at least
some employers to look at your score, you should attempt to make life easier
for yourself by aiming for the highest possible score rather than just a
pass in the shortest time possible. Personally I believe that once you have
a track record, the certification should not matter too much, except perhaps
to show that you have a good allround technical understanding, and that you
have kept your skills current.

Regards,
David.

Yes, your point is valid also, but in the end (for the people who passes
with braindumps) if they don't have experience to show once they're on the
computer, the employer will realize about that this candidate is not a true
developer

"David Kavanagh" <> wrote in message
newssKdnQqKd_6QwIreRVn-...
> Good point. No matter how good your score is, it is never going to be a
> replacement for a proven track record. It may however, help you to get the
> interview in the first place. At that point the certs become pretty
> irrelevent as the interviewer will access your technical (and
> non-technical)
> skills for themselves - often by looking at your past work.
>
> I guess the point that I was making is that if there is a trend for at
> least
> some employers to look at your score, you should attempt to make life
> easier
> for yourself by aiming for the highest possible score rather than just a
> pass in the shortest time possible. Personally I believe that once you
> have
> a track record, the certification should not matter too much, except
> perhaps
> to show that you have a good allround technical understanding, and that
> you
> have kept your skills current.
>
> Regards,
> David.

Well I certainly would never advocate using a braindump. This would be like
lying in your interview. It may get you the job but when it becomes clear
that you do not have the skills, you'll get fired.

On the subject of braindumps, I never even knew they existed, or at least
wouldn't have believed they contained genuine questions, if it wasn't for
the number of people complaining about them on this newsgroup. Every time
they are mentioned, this becomes a great advert for them!

David.

Yes, that's true. But as I said before, if someone is not a true developer
or true IT Professional, the people around him/her will realize it

"David Kavanagh" <> wrote in message
news:fMKdnZ2dnZ15IRDQnZ2dnRz9it6dnZ2dRVn-...
> Well I certainly would never advocate using a braindump. This would be
> like
> lying in your interview. It may get you the job but when it becomes clear
> that you do not have the skills, you'll get fired.
>
> On the subject of braindumps, I never even knew they existed, or at least
> wouldn't have believed they contained genuine questions, if it wasn't for
> the number of people complaining about them on this newsgroup. Every time
> they are mentioned, this becomes a great advert for them!
>
> David.

I got extreemly lucky with my web apps exam. 3 questions were pure ADO.Net
and most of the others were questions that most .Net windows developers could
have answered without knowing much ASP. The real winner for me was an obsure
XML question which just happend to something I ran into by mistake the night
before the test while looking for something else not even related to my
studies for the exam. Obsure questions I understand they give more points for.

So as it turns out I only studied for Web apps for about a week (full time)
and passed the first time which has not been the case for any of the other
exams given I dont have any real life experience. The windows exam I studied
a TON (6 full times weeks I think) so much of what I learned there spilled
over to the web apps test. Pure luck on the questions I had.


"David Kavanagh" wrote:

> One last suggestion: Make sure you know when to use to use ViewState and
> when not to - I think I saw 2 questions on this. Also know the differences
> between the various caching techniques and when to use application caching
> and when to use session caching - this often arises during lengthy "case
> study" type questions.
>

By braindumps I assume you mean litterally actual questions from the real
test bank. I have found legal mock questions extreemly helpful in pointing
out a deeper understanding of material.

Someone green (like me) can understand what something IS, but its also
helpful to understand what something IS NOT. Surprisingly that is not as
intutive as one might think.

"David Kavanagh" wrote:

> Well I certainly would never advocate using a braindump. This would be like
> lying in your interview. It may get you the job but when it becomes clear
> that you do not have the skills, you'll get fired.
>
> On the subject of braindumps, I never even knew they existed, or at least
> wouldn't have believed they contained genuine questions, if it wasn't for
> the number of people complaining about them on this newsgroup. Every time
> they are mentioned, this becomes a great advert for them!
>
> David.
>

That last comment about recuiters doesnt really make much sense to me.
Sure a higher test score is better if they ask for it but taking and passing
the exams are clearly better then not doing it at all given same experience
level in question.

Furthermore, firms use their employees as their "resume" for clients and the
more certified people you have on your staff the better. So if I am looking
to fill a position that requires X years of experience I would perfer
canidates at that level to be certified rather then not regardless of the
score.

I am a HUGE advocate of cerifications but in no way do I think they replace
experience. They just give candidates of same given experience an advantage
(or at least should).

The question I have for naysayers of certs is this "give the same level of
experience what should a canidate of that level do that shows a competive
edge against others of the same level"?

Perhaps why there are so many naysayers of certs is becuase they are being
given positions higher up then what reflects their job experience and if that
is what has been going on I can understand the resentment. I do certs just to
compete among people in my same level of experience.

"David Kavanagh" wrote:

> I think that is true but some employers now believe that the MS Certs are
> too easy to pass and so are looking at your score. I know when I did mine at
> a Pearson Vue test center, I was given a printed transcript which included
> my actual score (broken down into different categories). This transcript
> also included an authentication code that an employer can type in to the
> Pearson Vue website to confirm that it is genuine. The Microsoft transcripts
> though only include a pass/failure, presumably because Microsoft think that
> a pass should be sufficient.
>
> In an earlier discussion on this newsgroup, a number of people were debating
> whether certification was good for your career. I noticed that a couple of
> people mentioned that, as recruiters, they would regard it as a negative
> point if someone just scraped a pass and they would have been better off not
> mentioning it at all.
>
> Regards,
> David.
>

My comments regarding the potential negative effects of just scraping a pass
are not based on any personal experience - I was simply repeating what had
been written in this group by others who claim to have been in a recruiting
position (use Google to look at the archive). Personally I think that anyone
who has taken the time to get certified should get full credit for taking
their career seriously and educating themselves. In the past, I have
recruited a number of programmers, although none have ever been certified.
If I had seen two candidates which had identical experience, but one had at
least one cert (no matter what the score), then they would have had the
advantage. You also make a good point regarding companies wanting as many
certified employees as possible.

Unfortunately, certifications are not viewed very highly in some
organizations. I suspect this might be because those doing the recruiting
often do not have them and so either do not know how difficult they are, or
feel insecure. I've noticed similar behaviour with those with college
degrees - if they have one, they insist that everyone has one, if they
don't, they think they are worthless.

David.

Practice questions are a good idea. Not only are they a great way to learn
the subject, but they are a great way to get used to how the questions are
phrased. In our everyday work we are rarely given a quick overview of a
problem and asked to pick the best choice from four options, within a couple
of minutes. This is a skill that should be practiced before the exam. I'm
just started looking at the 70-300 exam, and I think this one is best
approached by doing as many practice questions as possible.

Although I've never seen them, I believe that when people refer to
braindumps, they are not referring to practice questions, but to the actual
questions that have somehow been smuggled out of the exam and published,
together with supposedly correct answers. Whether they are real or not I
wouldn't know, but if they are then this is cheating.

David