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MCSD .Net recruiters and job networking

 
 
Session Mwamufiya
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      05-30-2004
Could someone direct me to usefull MCSD .Net recruiting
sites, not just the ones where you post your CV and
that's it. I'm looking for a headhunter style site where
recruiters actively work with the job seekers. Thanks

Session
 
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The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
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      05-30-2004
> I'm looking for a headhunter style site where
>recruiters actively work with the job seekers.


I believe you have the wrong idea of what a 'headhunter' is as
referred to in the recruitment business.

A 'headhunter' is enlisted by the client, not the 'job seeker', in an
attempt to entice specific people (who are know to the client through
name and reputation), to join that client. These 'specific people' are
high flyers in their field, in which there are few (in any) other
people who can preform the role in question with the same level of
proven success. Given that you have posted a message in this ng, it is
hard to imagine you such a person.

As such, I believe you are referring to recruitment companies who
charge (or rather rip off) 'job seekers' a fee to 'attempt' to find
them a role. I have never seen the need why any company would entrust
the selection of IT personnel to a third party, and I am dumfounded
why any job seeker would pay (or rather, be ripped off) for someone
else to attempt to find them a role.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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Ernesto
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      05-31-2004

>-----Original Message-----
>> I'm looking for a headhunter style site where
>>recruiters actively work with the job seekers.

>
>I believe you have the wrong idea of what a 'headhunter'

is as
>referred to in the recruitment business.
>
>A 'headhunter' is enlisted by the client, not the 'job

seeker', in an
>attempt to entice specific people (who are know to the

client through name and reputation),
I agree with the fact about the differences
between "headhunter" and "jobseekers", but i disagree
with the fact that clients ask for specific persons,
sometimes the client is looking for a high profile, but
doesn't have many contacts to know the people that
matches that profile, so they contract a headhunter in
order to find that profile, in the hope that the
headhunter have more resources (contacts) to find it.

Another situation where a headhunter is required: finding
people from another locations, in Spain 2 companies
needed people from a lot of profiles, so they ask to a
headhunter located in Peru to perform a evaluation of the
candidates, i was in that process (in fact i have to move
from Lima to Madrid) and i didn't pay anything to the
headhunter for 2 reasons: he contacted me (i still have
no idea how he found me) and the companie pays a sum for
each pearson that was accepted, so the headhunter was
motived to filter the best of the bread in order to get
more people accepted.

If you have to pay to a people to find you a job, he's
not a headhunter, the real headhunter earns money from
the companies not from the aspirants, perhaps you could
find one and give him your CV and wait... who knows....?

Ernesto


 
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The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
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      05-31-2004
On Mon, 31 May 2004 03:35:08 -0700, "Ernesto"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>> I'm looking for a headhunter style site where
>>>recruiters actively work with the job seekers.

>>
>>I believe you have the wrong idea of what a 'headhunter'

>is as
>>referred to in the recruitment business.
>>
>>A 'headhunter' is enlisted by the client, not the 'job

>seeker', in an
>>attempt to entice specific people (who are know to the

>client through name and reputation),
>I agree with the fact about the differences
>between "headhunter" and "jobseekers", but i disagree
>with the fact that clients ask for specific persons,
>sometimes the client is looking for a high profile, but
>doesn't have many contacts to know the people that
>matches that profile, so they contract a headhunter in
>order to find that profile, in the hope that the
>headhunter have more resources (contacts) to find it.
>
>Another situation where a headhunter is required: finding
>people from another locations, in Spain 2 companies
>needed people from a lot of profiles, so they ask to a
>headhunter located in Peru to perform a evaluation of the
>candidates, i was in that process (in fact i have to move
>from Lima to Madrid) and i didn't pay anything to the
>headhunter for 2 reasons: he contacted me (i still have
>no idea how he found me) and the companie pays a sum for
>each pearson that was accepted, so the headhunter was
>motived to filter the best of the bread in order to get
>more people accepted.
>
>If you have to pay to a people to find you a job, he's
>not a headhunter, the real headhunter earns money from
>the companies not from the aspirants, perhaps you could
>find one and give him your CV and wait... who knows....?
>
>Ernesto
>



Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
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      05-31-2004
No, a headhunter is as I describe one.

You have simply described a typical, so called 'recruitment
consultant', who will find the client any number of 'anybodys' for
which the client will [maybe] choose one or more for the role[s].

Clients use those type of 'services' provided by 'recruitment
consultants' because they are either too lazy, ignorant or simple
don't know any different. In the vast majority of cases, those clients
are wasting their money. I'm damn if I would entrust the selection of
employees, whom I require to continue the success of my company, to
some commissioned based 'salesman' who has no idea about my business.

In contrast, headhunters are engaged by a client for a specific type
of person, who more often than not, has been personally known
beforehand. These people being headhunted have the ability to enhance
the economic capabilities of the client company and a strategic level.
If the client simply wanted a bunch of software engineers, that client
would simply advertise in their trade press (or elsewhere).

Location has nothing to do with the description of a 'headhunter'.
Headhunters can be engaged to go after someone in the next office
block (or even the same office block) or on the other side of the
world. The same [lack of] geographical restrictions apply to
'recruitment consultants', although I can't see a recruitment company
based in Manhattan, being engaged to find a vb gunt for a company
located in Manchester, England.


On Mon, 31 May 2004 03:35:08 -0700, "Ernesto"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>> I'm looking for a headhunter style site where
>>>recruiters actively work with the job seekers.

>>
>>I believe you have the wrong idea of what a 'headhunter'

>is as
>>referred to in the recruitment business.
>>
>>A 'headhunter' is enlisted by the client, not the 'job

>seeker', in an
>>attempt to entice specific people (who are know to the

>client through name and reputation),
>I agree with the fact about the differences
>between "headhunter" and "jobseekers", but i disagree
>with the fact that clients ask for specific persons,
>sometimes the client is looking for a high profile, but
>doesn't have many contacts to know the people that
>matches that profile, so they contract a headhunter in
>order to find that profile, in the hope that the
>headhunter have more resources (contacts) to find it.
>
>Another situation where a headhunter is required: finding
>people from another locations, in Spain 2 companies
>needed people from a lot of profiles, so they ask to a
>headhunter located in Peru to perform a evaluation of the
>candidates, i was in that process (in fact i have to move
>from Lima to Madrid) and i didn't pay anything to the
>headhunter for 2 reasons: he contacted me (i still have
>no idea how he found me) and the companie pays a sum for
>each pearson that was accepted, so the headhunter was
>motived to filter the best of the bread in order to get
>more people accepted.
>
>If you have to pay to a people to find you a job, he's
>not a headhunter, the real headhunter earns money from
>the companies not from the aspirants, perhaps you could
>find one and give him your CV and wait... who knows....?
>
>Ernesto
>



Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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Ernesto
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      05-31-2004
>-----Original Message-----
>No, a headhunter is as I describe one.

That is your definition....

>Clients use those type of 'services' provided
> by 'recruitment
>consultants' because they are either too lazy, ignorant
> or simple don't know any different.

Perhaps i have to put in the context, in 2000 and 2001
(before 11/9) Spain had a big demand from computer
related professionals, name it: VB, SAP, J2EE, Oracle....
altought without the big distorsion like USA had with
the "dot-com mania", and the places were filled with
Mathematics, Fisics, Telecos at first but in a moment
they had to fill with Administrators, Chemistrys,
Zootechnists and so on because the Universities in Spain
haven't produced enough professionals (Informaticos) to
fill the places, at this point these "another
professionals" were enough to fill the low entry levels
the problem with the medium and high level positions
still remains then, so the companies started to look
overseas, in the case of the 2 companies that i was
talking first they tried with Colombia and after that
with Peru, at that moment there was a need so they
decided to solve it with qualified professionals from
Peru, currently there is no need because the market is
more equilibrated, but then that was the reality, and i
don't think that both companies we're lazy or ignorants.

> In the vast majority of cases, those clients
>are wasting their money.

I don't think so , it was a good invest as far as i
know.

>I'm damn if I would entrust the selection of
>employees, whom I require to continue the success of my
>company, to some commissioned based 'salesman' who has
> no idea about my business.

The process weren't authomatic, we had interviews and
exams very strict.... also the CV has some to do, so my
MCSD certification allows me to get into the group.

>In contrast, headhunters are engaged by a client for a

specific type
>of person, who more often than not, has been personally

known beforehand.
That sounds better because a "person" is different from
a "specific type of person", in this case that matches
with my first description.

>'recruitment consultants', although I can't see a

recruitment company
>based in Manhattan, being engaged to find a vb gunt for

a company
>located in Manchester, England.

Currently perhaps not, like i said.... at that moment....

Ernesto
 
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The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
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      05-31-2004
and what does this have to do with a description of a 'headhunter'....

On Mon, 31 May 2004 06:16:47 -0700, "Ernesto"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>>-----Original Message-----
>>No, a headhunter is as I describe one.

>That is your definition....
>
>>Clients use those type of 'services' provided
>> by 'recruitment
>>consultants' because they are either too lazy, ignorant
>> or simple don't know any different.

>Perhaps i have to put in the context, in 2000 and 2001
>(before 11/9) Spain had a big demand from computer
>related professionals, name it: VB, SAP, J2EE, Oracle....
>altought without the big distorsion like USA had with
>the "dot-com mania", and the places were filled with
>Mathematics, Fisics, Telecos at first but in a moment
>they had to fill with Administrators, Chemistrys,
>Zootechnists and so on because the Universities in Spain
>haven't produced enough professionals (Informaticos) to
>fill the places, at this point these "another
>professionals" were enough to fill the low entry levels
>the problem with the medium and high level positions
>still remains then, so the companies started to look
>overseas, in the case of the 2 companies that i was
>talking first they tried with Colombia and after that
>with Peru, at that moment there was a need so they
>decided to solve it with qualified professionals from
>Peru, currently there is no need because the market is
>more equilibrated, but then that was the reality, and i
>don't think that both companies we're lazy or ignorants.
>
>> In the vast majority of cases, those clients
>>are wasting their money.

>I don't think so , it was a good invest as far as i
>know.
>
>>I'm damn if I would entrust the selection of
>>employees, whom I require to continue the success of my
>>company, to some commissioned based 'salesman' who has
>> no idea about my business.

>The process weren't authomatic, we had interviews and
>exams very strict.... also the CV has some to do, so my
>MCSD certification allows me to get into the group.
>
>>In contrast, headhunters are engaged by a client for a

>specific type
>>of person, who more often than not, has been personally

>known beforehand.
>That sounds better because a "person" is different from
>a "specific type of person", in this case that matches
>with my first description.
>
>>'recruitment consultants', although I can't see a

>recruitment company
>>based in Manhattan, being engaged to find a vb gunt for

>a company
>>located in Manchester, England.

>Currently perhaps not, like i said.... at that moment....
>
>Ernesto



Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
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      05-31-2004
>>I'm damn if I would entrust the selection of
>>employees, whom I require to continue the success of my
>>company, to some commissioned based 'salesman' who has
>> no idea about my business.


>The process weren't authomatic, we had interviews and
>exams very strict....


so do we, but we don't need the help (or the expense incurred)
'provided' using the 'services' of a third party.

> also the CV has some to do, so my
>MCSD certification allows me to get into the group.


no, anyone can get into the group.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
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      05-31-2004
>>In contrast, headhunters are engaged by a client for a
>>specific type
>>of person, who more often than not, has been personally
>>known beforehand.


>That sounds better because a "person" is different from
>a "specific type of person", in this case that matches
>with my first description.


As I said, headhunters are engaged to go after specific people, NOT to
go on some CV harvest collection looking for cheapest Joe Grunt they
can find (and thus take the biggest cut from the process).

My choice of words (included above) is accurate, the person (or
persons) the client has identified as a target, may be personally
known to the client, however because of contractual clauses my NOT be
approached by the client directly, hence the use of 'headhunters'.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
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      05-31-2004
On Mon, 31 May 2004 06:16:47 -0700, "Ernesto"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>>'recruitment consultants', although I can't see a
>>recruitment company
>>based in Manhattan, being engaged to find a vb gunt for
>>a company
>>located in Manchester, England.


>Currently perhaps not, like i said.... at that moment....


Not Ever!!

Why on this Earth would any company in Manhattan use 'recruitment
consultants' based 3000 miles ago, to hire a VB grunt or any other
human resource, which can be found in their hundred's within twenty
mile radius!!!! No wonder so many companies go bust!!

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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