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Training and Career

 
 
The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
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      05-29-2004
>I know you don't
>approve, Kline - spare us - OK?


Because of the simple format of the exams, 'practice' tests are used
by many people because of how close the questions (and thus the
answers) are to the real exam. As such, people are able to memorize
the essence of the answers, without understanding the questions, to me
that is not learning.

If the 'practice' test provider gave the questions and links to
resources where the answers could be found, but NOT the actual
answers, that would make sense to me. The taker of the practice test
would have to work harder to get the most out of the practice test
(learning), and would submit the answered questions to the practice
test provider, who would mark it (electronically) and send to score
back , but again, NOT the answers. This is a TRUE practice test, as
this is almost what happens on the real test.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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      05-30-2004
I have to say....
Always a pleasure to read you.
Thanks UAError.


>-----Original Message-----
>The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>I can't see how learning oo concepts can be seen as

a 'challenge'.
>>People deal with objects every minute of their lives,

it should real,
>>why it's not is beyond me.

>
>Dealing with objects is not the same as designing them -
>very few people actually create anything - if they create
>anything it usually just a variation of something they

have
>already create before and usually based on instruction

left
>by someone else. Creating new objects (classes in our

lingo)
>was usually left to "inventors".
>
>Currently fledgeling developers experience OO through OO
>languages and OO frameworks - artefacts that (most of the
>time) model the computer domain not the business/problem
>domain. Often they will then come to the conclusion that

any
>OO-model should more closely reflect the solution domain

and
>not the problem domain - which tends to create systems

that
>do not tolerate change in the business/problem domain

very
>well.
>
>Many of their mentors may be prone to the view that

objects
>are just records/data structures with associated

functions
>which is a common (mis)conception among individuals

educated
>during the structured design era - which doesn't help.
>
>And look at the impact that ADO.NET (an OO framework) can
>have on some designs, especially because of

the "seamless"
>integration of the dataset with the data grid, repeater
>control and data list.
>
>ADO.NET "objectifies" the concepts of dealing with an

RDBMS
>or any other data source! This is useful in the data

access
>layer - but strictly speaking no data set should ever

leave
>this layer. Above the DAL you should only see

collections of
>business objects as it is the responsibility of the DAL

to
>bridge the RDBMS to OO chasm and realize (and later
>serialize) the business objects. No visible RDBMS concept
>should be promoted into the business logic, let alone the
>user services layer.
>
>But that is exactly what happens because of the data
>set/data grid integration. Yes, you can integrate your

own
>business object collections but few go through the extra
>effort.
>
>Now strictly typed datasets are fine - but they cannot
>contain business logic - and therefore they cannot act as
>collections of real business objects.
>
>Meanwhile developers using VB.NET/C#, and the .NET

framework
>happily use the dataset (an RDBMS concept) in every layer
>(data access, business logic, and user services layer)

and
>declare that they are creating object-oriented

applications!
>
>So it seems to me there are plenty of places to get

lost...
>
>>Procedural concepts, now that's hard in
>>today's IT world!!!
>>
>>Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

>
>.
>

 
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mad dog
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Posts: n/a
 
      05-31-2004
I would like to thank you all for your comments, they are
helpful. I do wish I had not used my email address
though, some idiot thinks he can actually get a virus
through and has been trying since the time of the post.

Kline pretty much hit the nail on the head with;
"I could not do my job without having a good
understanding of
networking concepts which include security, transport
infrastructure,
performance issues, geographical issues, etc, etc.
Software engineers
have always needed to understand more than simply how to
churn out
code, this is even more so in today's IT world."

I am in a rural area and was also caught in a bad
personal situation on top of a lot of other issues and
the economy. (Sorry if I sound like Edipus).

I know of several companies that have spent millions on
garbage, because they were sold what they wanted to hear.
One company in particular has had a revolving door of
outside vendors for an insurance replacement system since
1998. They refuse to train their own people in new
technology, they think they are going to save a buck,
hire "Inexpensive Consulting Companies", and after a
couple of years have nothing. They boot these
consultants, find new ones, and start the cycle all over
again. They are on their third such company. Each company
walks away with millions and business knowledge they can
apply to their next victim (They will produce,
eventually). The employees are not U.S. citizens. So
basically, everyone is paying top dollar to train someone
from another country because senior staff thinks they
will save a buck. (I have wondered how often this
scenario is repeated).

I have an awful lot of the basic pieces, lack anything
more than home networking, seeking to fill in as much of
the empty spaces as possible (and practice, practice,
practice). Last billing rate was $70 hr., I would be
happy with $10, minimum wage if necessary, just to have a
place to practice and build skills as well as learn
technique in a large business environment (although I
have not closed myself off to smaller firms). Have been
willing to relocate anywhere in the US, actually
interviewed for a position in London in 2002. If I didn't
find myself in the position I am in, I wouldn't believe
it possible. Just call me mad dog...

>-----Original Message-----
>>First, I can't quite see why
>>you're devoting a lot of time to network admin certs

and
>>all that - unless that's what you want. If doing .NET
>>development is really what you want to do, then you
>>oughta get on with it.

>
>I could not do my job without having a good

understanding of
>networking concepts which include security, transport

infrastructure,
>performance issues, geographical issues, etc, etc.

Software engineers
>have always needed to understand more than simply how to

churn out
>code, this is even more so in today's IT world.
>
>Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
>.
>

 
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JaR
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      06-01-2004
On Mon, 31 May 2004 14:50:15 -0700, mad dog extemporised:

> I would like to thank you all for your comments, they are
> helpful. I do wish I had not used my email address
> though, some idiot thinks he can actually get a virus
> through and has been trying since the time of the post.
>


Your part right about the idiot.

It's a bot that harvests addys off usenet. Spammers use the worms to
hijack machines to spew their garbage for them. You'd be surprised how
many fools can't resist opening them.

Eddiepox?

JaR
AV Thug
 
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The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-01-2004
>You'd be surprised how
>many fools can't resist opening them.


.... and even more surprised how many of those fools are IT
'professionals'.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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      06-04-2004
Is retirement an option?

"(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message news:13aec01c44410$a509b9a0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I am mainframe COBOL/CICS/VSAM programmer with no college
> degree, only certifications in mainframe Computer
> Operations ('82') and Computer Programming ('89'). Seven
> years experience in operations, 12 years in programming,
> with the last six as a consultant. In both operations and
> programming I caught on fast and rose quickly, was very
> good technically but never had aspirations for management
> (could manage projects, couldn't deal with micro
> management by upper management with political agendas
> related to cross and/or interdepartmental squabbling). My
> last contract ended in September of 2001, although I have
> good references, I have not found a job since then.
>
> Currently working with Voc-Rehab and starting CBT courses
> to get certified in Network+, Security+, MCSE (70-210, 70-
> 215, 70-216, 70-217, 70-219, 70-220, 70-221, 70-292 and
> 70-296) and Cisco CCNA.
>
> Upon successful certification they would be will to
> sponsor .NET CBT to earn training to pass MCSD as well as
> training for MCDBA, J2SE, JSEE. The CBT vendor we are
> starting with is LearnKey.
>
> I have dabbled with VB 6.0, making only small basic stand
> alone programs and some forms interfacing with ACCESS (XP
> version) (over a year ago). I have written basic PERL and
> PHP applications that interface with MySQL. I have NO
> budget for books and lost access to the net for over a
> year. I have only done scribble with Visual C++ 6.0.
>
> In short, no business production environment experience
> at all with these products, is it realistic to expect to
> achieve MCSD certification with a CBT with this
> background?
>
> And after getting all of these certifications, just how
> helpful will they be without any prior experience or a
> college degree given my background?
>
> And lastly opinions on CBT's, and the quality of CBT
> vendors.
>



 
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The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-05-2004
>I know of several companies that have spent millions on
>garbage, because they were sold what they wanted to hear.
>One company in particular has had a revolving door of
>outside vendors for an insurance replacement system since
>1998. They refuse to train their own people in new
>technology, they think they are going to save a buck,
>hire "Inexpensive Consulting Companies", and after a
>couple of years have nothing. They boot these
>consultants, find new ones, and start the cycle all over
>again. They are on their third such company. Each company
>walks away with millions and business knowledge they can
>apply to their next victim (They will produce,
>eventually). The employees are not U.S. citizens. So
>basically, everyone is paying top dollar to train someone
>from another country because senior staff thinks they
>will save a buck. (I have wondered how often this
>scenario is repeated).


This is seen all too common and what makes it even more sad is that
there is absolutely no need whatsoever for these situations to be so.
These situations are born completely out ignorance, incompetence,
stupidity and laziness and 'should' have no place in IT.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-05-2004
>I have an awful lot of the basic pieces, lack anything
>more than home networking, seeking to fill in as much of
>the empty spaces as possible (and practice, practice,
>practice). Last billing rate was $70 hr., I would be
>happy with $10, minimum wage if necessary, just to have a
>place to practice and build skills as well as learn
>technique in a large business environment (although I
>have not closed myself off to smaller firms). Have been
>willing to relocate anywhere in the US, actually
>interviewed for a position in London in 2002. If I didn't
>find myself in the position I am in, I wouldn't believe
>it possible.


Hope things turn around real soon.

Good luck Mad Dog.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
 
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