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Certifications in C.

 
 
Richard Bos
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      11-08-2005
Peter Davies <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 01:44:04 -0800, ajm wrote:
>
> > http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) schrieb:
> >
> >> Can anyone tell me about certifications in C.
> >> Is it a good idea to do Certification.

> >
> > Personally I do not think certification in general is a good thing.

>
> I'm sure that any resident quacks in your area would be pleased to
> hear that!


I would not go to a doctor whose highest qualification is a mere
industry certification. Where I live, all doctors must go through the
whole 'versity education, whether they think they can wing the tests or
not; I would be surprised if it were not the same on your island.

Richard
 
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Peter Davies
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      11-08-2005
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 08:39:23 +0000, Richard Bos wrote:

> Peter Davies <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 01:44:04 -0800, ajm wrote:
>>
>> > (E-Mail Removed) schrieb:
>> >
>> >> Can anyone tell me about certifications in C. Is it a good idea to do
>> >> Certification.
>> >
>> > Personally I do not think certification in general is a good thing.

>>
>> I'm sure that any resident quacks in your area would be pleased to hear
>> that!

>
> I would not go to a doctor whose highest qualification is a mere industry
> certification. Where I live, all doctors must go through the whole
> 'versity education, whether they think they can wing the tests or not; I
> would be surprised if it were not the same on your island.


That's the point, isn't it? The education and the certification need to go
hand in hand.

I don't believe it's possible to get a bachelor's degree in C programming
- and I would be very wary of anyone who had such a thing. That's where
your industry certification comes into play.

--
Peter Davies

 
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Michael Wojcik
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      11-09-2005

[Reformatted to a sane line length.]

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Dennis Willson <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>
> Actually I have found that most people out of college are in fact
> poor coders. Colleges (most anyway) don't teach real word PRODUCTION
> coding.


Out of curiosity, have you published this comprehensive study of
the capabilities of the graduates of most colleges? I'm sure it
would be useful to many of us who have occasion to consider some
such for hire.

Or is this just another case of making wild generalizations from
anecdote?

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Michael Wojcik (E-Mail Removed)
 
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Default User
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      11-09-2005
Michael Wojcik wrote:

>
> [Reformatted to a sane line length.]
>
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Dennis
> Willson <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> >
> > Actually I have found that most people out of college are in fact
> > poor coders. Colleges (most anyway) don't teach real word PRODUCTION
> > coding.

>
> Out of curiosity, have you published this comprehensive study of
> the capabilities of the graduates of most colleges? I'm sure it
> would be useful to many of us who have occasion to consider some
> such for hire.
>
> Or is this just another case of making wild generalizations from
> anecdote?


I'll add my anecdotes. The new hires we've gotten in over the past few
years have been pretty good programmers. Naturally, they are not
cognizant of our coding standard and there are things they need to
learn, but on the whole they've been reasonably knowledgeable.



Brian

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Michael Mair
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      11-09-2005
Default User wrote:
> Michael Wojcik wrote:
>
>
>>[Reformatted to a sane line length.]
>>
>>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Dennis
>>Willson <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>>
>>>Actually I have found that most people out of college are in fact
>>>poor coders. Colleges (most anyway) don't teach real word PRODUCTION
>>>coding.

>>
>>Out of curiosity, have you published this comprehensive study of
>>the capabilities of the graduates of most colleges? I'm sure it
>>would be useful to many of us who have occasion to consider some
>>such for hire.
>>
>>Or is this just another case of making wild generalizations from
>>anecdote?

>
> I'll add my anecdotes. The new hires we've gotten in over the past few
> years have been pretty good programmers. Naturally, they are not
> cognizant of our coding standard and there are things they need to
> learn, but on the whole they've been reasonably knowledgeable.


Another anecdote:
I think this depends, among other things, often on the university
and course, too. Some time ago, I was looking for a programmer
(ideally with good C knowledge). We got many applications from
"information technology" students of a certain university not far
from getting their degree; without exception, not a single one
had even rudimental knowledge of software development let alone
could write a slightly enriched "hello world" application without
referring to books and still getting it wrong -- all of them claimed
proficiency with C and programming.
Due to the waste of time each such interview meant, I was strongly
tempted to exclude this special flavour from the pool of
applicants...


..02 EUR
Michael
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Tim Rentsch
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      11-10-2005
Michael Mair <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

....snip...
>
> Another anecdote:
> I think this depends, among other things, often on the university
> and course, too. Some time ago, I was looking for a programmer
> (ideally with good C knowledge). We got many applications from
> "information technology" students of a certain university not far
> from getting their degree; without exception, not a single one
> had even rudimental knowledge of software development let alone
> could write a slightly enriched "hello world" application without
> referring to books and still getting it wrong -- all of them claimed
> proficiency with C and programming.
> Due to the waste of time each such interview meant, I was strongly
> tempted to exclude this special flavour from the pool of
> applicants...


Forgive me, I have to ask... Is there a reason for using
"rudimental" rather than "rudimentary", or is it just
what you're used to?
 
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Michael Mair
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      11-10-2005
Tim Rentsch wrote:
> Michael Mair <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>
> ...snip...
>
>>Another anecdote:
>>I think this depends, among other things, often on the university
>>and course, too. Some time ago, I was looking for a programmer
>>(ideally with good C knowledge). We got many applications from
>>"information technology" students of a certain university not far
>>from getting their degree; without exception, not a single one
>>had even rudimental knowledge of software development let alone
>>could write a slightly enriched "hello world" application without
>>referring to books and still getting it wrong -- all of them claimed
>>proficiency with C and programming.
>>Due to the waste of time each such interview meant, I was strongly
>>tempted to exclude this special flavour from the pool of
>>applicants...

>
>
> Forgive me, I have to ask... Is there a reason for using
> "rudimental" rather than "rudimentary", or is it just
> what you're used to?


Umh, I only had the former in my active vocabulary but not the
latter and was not aware that the phrase most people use is
"rudimentary knowledge"... I just consulted my dictionary and
found that rudimental seems to say the same thing.

So, s/rudimental/rudimentary/

Thanks
Michael
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Neil Kurzman
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      11-15-2005


Joe Estock wrote:

> ajm wrote:
> > (E-Mail Removed) schrieb:
> >
> >
> >>Can anyone tell me about certifications in C.
> >>Is it a good idea to do Certification.
> >>
> >>-Rupesh

> >
> >
> > Personally I do not think certification in general is a good thing.
> > Many vendors (e.g., Oracle, Sun etc.) use certification as a marketing
> > tool for those who need a comfort blanket. Certification might also
> > have limited recognition (e.g., private college course certifications)
> > outside of vendor (read: proprietary) models.
> >
> > I am also very unconvinced that certification is the deal maker that
> > many claim it is for getting a job. Most candidates that I have
> > reviewed are judged on their overall educational merits and if they
> > don't have C or another language to the required level then we assume
> > that if we employ smart people it won't be beyond them to figure it out
> > - we rarely say ok let's take that candidate because (s)he has that
> > cert (it may be different in other companies or in countries where
> > skills are more mixed perhaps.)

>
> About 90% of the places around my area go by college education, not by
> real-worled experience. I can code circles around any fresh college
> graduate, however that seems to amount to exactly squat in real life.
> Personaly whenever I hire someone, I hire them based on what they know -
> not how they learned it, but hey maybe I'm just old fashioned
>
> >
> > Certification has its benefits e.g., It might help as a motivational
> > aid to a new programmer but don't expect too much to change in your
> > world once you are certified.
> >
> > hth,
> > ajm.
> >

>
> Most places anymore expect a BA or higher, which completely boggles my
> mind. Any professional developer here can tell you that you only learn
> so much in college. Real world experience is and always will be the best
> method of learning. As far as certification goes - shure, knock your
> socks off. If wasting money on a framed piece of paper tickles your
> fancy and makes you feel better about yourself then go for it. As for
> me, I'll hold on to my experience instead.
>
> Joe


It is very simple. A BS says you where taught an Passed a predefined amount
of material.
A better college says you should have been taught better.
No thing say just that. You may or may not be good. More experience makes
proving it easier.
In the end a BS opens more doors. You still have to close the deal.
A C certificate in America is not very impressive on a programmers resume.
my 2 cents.

 
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