«

I heard MS corporate policy won't allow customer service to hang up the
phone until you explicitly say you're happy. They'll pass the phone from one
rep to another until you're eventually talking to the midnight janitor.


"Tobin" <> wrote in message
news:005d01c3af1c$aab4b320$...
> I have a reverse cycle hibernation going on. Actually, I
> was so wrapped up in 100 hour work weeks getting a product
> ready instead of playing "testoholic".
>
>
> Anyway, I'm not usually one to retract a statement on
> things like this -- especially when I feel the situation
> was rediculous to begin with. But evidently I was able to
> strike a nerve somewhere and Microsoft did show that they
> cared. I wont discuss specifics but they've put me in a
> position to at least reconsider my thoughts and wait to
> see if they mean what they say by changing things for the
> better.
>
> I had a very good conversation with not one, not two, but
> three Microsoft employees who made certain that I was
> happy. I've never felt the love more.
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >>I have been so wrapped up in work that I didn't hear
> about
> >>this information until mid-September.
> >
> >Should have set your alarm clock for Spring.
> >.
> >

>I heard MS corporate policy won't allow customer service to hang up the
>phone until you explicitly say you're happy. They'll pass the phone from one
>rep to another until you're eventually talking to the midnight janitor.

Depending on the level of the support agreement, I believe ms support
is excellent.

>Actually, I
>was so wrapped up in 100 hour work weeks getting a product
>ready instead of playing "testoholic".

Do ya get time off for a crap, hee. hee!

<WKidd> wrote in message news:<OWQf$>...
> I heard MS corporate policy won't allow customer service to hang up the
> phone until you explicitly say you're happy. They'll pass the phone from one
> rep to another until you're eventually talking to the midnight janitor.
>

I did phone support for MS for a while through a subcontractor. We
didn't have any policy like that. In fact, we would never hand off the
call to anyone else unless it was a problem we couldn't solve and it
needed to be passed to tier 2 support.

And we didn't hang up, until the problem that they called in with was
solved or - if we were unable to resolve it - until we filled out the
right kind of follow-up form (escalation, call back after they got an
update, whatever.)

I guess this got a little off topic. We now return you to your
regularly scheduled news group.

In news: 005d01c3af1c$aab4b320$,
Tobin <> wrote:
> I had a very good conversation with not one, not two, but
> three Microsoft employees who made certain that I was
> happy. I've never felt the love more.

I'm glad things are looking up for you. If a customer service rep told me
that "before" did not include the day of, then I would have asked to speak
to a supervisor just to make sure. That goes for pretty much anything in
life - lots of times the people on the front line don't have all the
information correctly.

--
Cindy Winegarden MCSD, Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP
www.cindywinegarden.com

If it's any consolation to you, Microsoft is digging its
own grave on security. Read up on adware (and be careful
that you don't get infected in the process). Adware has
been declared legal in US and this concept is spreading
like wildfire.

Our company recently abandoned further development of a
semi-finished web based application because of the above
concerns. We are shifting to a closed system (WAN/Citrix)
which offers much better security.

>-----Original Message-----
>Microsoft has lied to me yet again.
>
>Perhaps Microsoft themselves should "analyze" their own
>requirements because for the last time, they have screwed
>this developer out of his hard-earned work.
>
>Microsoft threw down the gauntlet for developers on the
>MCSD.NET track. They said [paraphrase] "Get your MCSD by
>September 30th, and you'll be recognized as an Early
>Adopter." You can find the exact wording here:
>http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/m...d/benefits.asp
>in the first paragraph.
>
>I have been so wrapped up in work that I didn't hear
about
>this information until mid-September. Someone joked and
>said "you better hurry up" thinking I wouldn't try. Well,
>I took my first test on September 9th, and had my MCAD
>within a week. At this point, I could have either kept
up
>this pace, or stretched things out to take my last exam
on
>the 30th. I wanted to be certain that I didn't screw up
>so I called Microsoft and verified that I would indeed
get
>the EA credential if I took the exam Tuesday morning
>(September 30th). It was inconvenient for me to take the
>exam on the 29th due to a meeting, but I would have
>rescheduled if I had known what was to come.
>
>I took the final exam I had to take at 9:15am and
passed.
>All done. I had accomplished my goal and taken all 5
>exams within a 21 day time period despite a busy work
>schedule. I realized today that I had yet to receive my
>updated wallet card with the MCSD. I called to inquire
>and Microsoft apologized for not getting it out.
However,
>being that I'm sure they don't keep reproducing "Early
>Adopter" cards like the rest of the cards I said, "Mine
>will still say Early Adopter on it, wont it?"
>
>The CSR paused and said, "I don't see that you got that
>certification. What is it?"
>
>He waited longer and searched before stating, "That is
>only for the first couple thousand people, it wasn't
based
>on a date."
>
>I said, "No, that's the MCAD 'Charter Member' credential.
>I'm talking about the MCSD Early Adopter."
>
>He said, "let me look".
>
>After waiting he said "who told you about this? I don't
>see anything about it."
>
>I had to tell him it was on the MS website and had to
find
>it. He came back and pointed me to another site
>
(http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/m.../showcase.asp).
> This site said I had to get it _before_ September 30th
>which conflicts with the link above and has different
>wording. So instead of saying "yeah, the wording was
>kinda misleading" Microsoft has chosen to disrespect a
>developer that has long evangelized their products,
>authored books about their software, and sold many
>solutions that have made them money (not that I make up a
>large portion of their gross revenue or anything).
>
>This is the last time. I'm turning all my efforts to
Java
>as soon as I possibly can. I will run Linux at home. I
>will sell my XBox and get another console. I'll have a
>Microsoft software burning party in my backyard. I'll
>offer free Linux courses on a weekly basis in my
>neighborhood and allow anyone else who wants to come in.
>I'm going to start developing Linux solutions for charity
>in my spare time.
>
>Why am I so ticked over this? Whats the big deal?
Because
>I am tired of being lied to by Microsoft. I'm tired of
>Microsoft treating developers like they don't matter.
I'm
>sick of the whole system they've created. They need
>competition.. and they need it badly. They are second-
>rate in support and always will be until they HAVE to
>provide good support and are FORCED to be reasonable.
>They cut back on benefits for getting certified mostly
>because they themselves know that certification doesn't
>mean anything to employers.
>
>Go ahead and get certified. See if it actually brings you
>anything. MIcrosoft wont think any better of you.
>Microsoft doesn't even consider certification of value
>within the organization. They don't think any better of
>you for getting certified, why should other employers?
>I'm telling you now, Sun will welcome you and give you
>support if you get certified in their program. They'll
>show their appreciation by giving you things you deserve
>for your hard work.
>.
>

Hi Sati,

I know what adware and spyware are but I don't understand you comment.
Can you please elaborate on it?

Thank you,


"Sati" <> wrote in message
news:030901c3b06c$b06743e0$...
> If it's any consolation to you, Microsoft is digging its
> own grave on security. Read up on adware (and be careful
> that you don't get infected in the process). Adware has
> been declared legal in US and this concept is spreading
> like wildfire.
>
> Our company recently abandoned further development of a
> semi-finished web based application because of the above
> concerns. We are shifting to a closed system (WAN/Citrix)
> which offers much better security.
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Microsoft has lied to me yet again.
> >
> >Perhaps Microsoft themselves should "analyze" their own
> >requirements because for the last time, they have screwed
> >this developer out of his hard-earned work.
> >
> >Microsoft threw down the gauntlet for developers on the
> >MCSD.NET track. They said [paraphrase] "Get your MCSD by
> >September 30th, and you'll be recognized as an Early
> >Adopter." You can find the exact wording here:
> >http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/m...d/benefits.asp
> >in the first paragraph.
> >
> >I have been so wrapped up in work that I didn't hear
> about
> >this information until mid-September. Someone joked and
> >said "you better hurry up" thinking I wouldn't try. Well,
> >I took my first test on September 9th, and had my MCAD
> >within a week. At this point, I could have either kept
> up
> >this pace, or stretched things out to take my last exam
> on
> >the 30th. I wanted to be certain that I didn't screw up
> >so I called Microsoft and verified that I would indeed
> get
> >the EA credential if I took the exam Tuesday morning
> >(September 30th). It was inconvenient for me to take the
> >exam on the 29th due to a meeting, but I would have
> >rescheduled if I had known what was to come.
> >
> >I took the final exam I had to take at 9:15am and
> passed.
> >All done. I had accomplished my goal and taken all 5
> >exams within a 21 day time period despite a busy work
> >schedule. I realized today that I had yet to receive my
> >updated wallet card with the MCSD. I called to inquire
> >and Microsoft apologized for not getting it out.
> However,
> >being that I'm sure they don't keep reproducing "Early
> >Adopter" cards like the rest of the cards I said, "Mine
> >will still say Early Adopter on it, wont it?"
> >
> >The CSR paused and said, "I don't see that you got that
> >certification. What is it?"
> >
> >He waited longer and searched before stating, "That is
> >only for the first couple thousand people, it wasn't
> based
> >on a date."
> >
> >I said, "No, that's the MCAD 'Charter Member' credential.
> >I'm talking about the MCSD Early Adopter."
> >
> >He said, "let me look".
> >
> >After waiting he said "who told you about this? I don't
> >see anything about it."
> >
> >I had to tell him it was on the MS website and had to
> find
> >it. He came back and pointed me to another site
> >
> (http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/m.../showcase.asp).
> > This site said I had to get it _before_ September 30th
> >which conflicts with the link above and has different
> >wording. So instead of saying "yeah, the wording was
> >kinda misleading" Microsoft has chosen to disrespect a
> >developer that has long evangelized their products,
> >authored books about their software, and sold many
> >solutions that have made them money (not that I make up a
> >large portion of their gross revenue or anything).
> >
> >This is the last time. I'm turning all my efforts to
> Java
> >as soon as I possibly can. I will run Linux at home. I
> >will sell my XBox and get another console. I'll have a
> >Microsoft software burning party in my backyard. I'll
> >offer free Linux courses on a weekly basis in my
> >neighborhood and allow anyone else who wants to come in.
> >I'm going to start developing Linux solutions for charity
> >in my spare time.
> >
> >Why am I so ticked over this? Whats the big deal?
> Because
> >I am tired of being lied to by Microsoft. I'm tired of
> >Microsoft treating developers like they don't matter.
> I'm
> >sick of the whole system they've created. They need
> >competition.. and they need it badly. They are second-
> >rate in support and always will be until they HAVE to
> >provide good support and are FORCED to be reasonable.
> >They cut back on benefits for getting certified mostly
> >because they themselves know that certification doesn't
> >mean anything to employers.
> >
> >Go ahead and get certified. See if it actually brings you
> >anything. MIcrosoft wont think any better of you.
> >Microsoft doesn't even consider certification of value
> >within the organization. They don't think any better of
> >you for getting certified, why should other employers?
> >I'm telling you now, Sun will welcome you and give you
> >support if you get certified in their program. They'll
> >show their appreciation by giving you things you deserve
> >for your hard work.
> >.
> >

Tobin I am in exactly the same situation as you are. Did
you manage to get your early achiever status?
>-----Original Message-----
>I have a reverse cycle hibernation going on. Actually, I
>was so wrapped up in 100 hour work weeks getting a
product
>ready instead of playing "testoholic".
>
>
>Anyway, I'm not usually one to retract a statement on
>things like this -- especially when I feel the situation
>was rediculous to begin with. But evidently I was able
to
>strike a nerve somewhere and Microsoft did show that
they
>cared. I wont discuss specifics but they've put me in a
>position to at least reconsider my thoughts and wait to
>see if they mean what they say by changing things for
the
>better.
>
>I had a very good conversation with not one, not two,
but
>three Microsoft employees who made certain that I was
>happy. I've never felt the love more.
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>I have been so wrapped up in work that I didn't hear
>about
>>>this information until mid-September.
>>
>>Should have set your alarm clock for Spring.
>>.
>>
>.
>

I've actually been having a battle or words via the
MCPHelp address and was extremely annoyed by their crap
responses.

However after weeks of emails, I've been informed that
ALL candidates that passed ON September 30 will get their
Early Adopter card, but it might take a bit of time to
process. (I guess they have to reorder them)

To clarify. The use of ' before ' can be inclusive of a
date. In fact its quite common with British english (yes,
there is another variety other than American). For
example:

I have to have this finsished before the end of the
month. This would normally be read as including the last
day of the month.

The whole wording was stupid anyway, who the hell runs a
promotion with a date if big letters that is the end of a
period then tries to say you have to have it done one day
prior to the end of the period. Its just not normal to
say these things unless you're out to **** people off.

I guess they recieved a few emails from people and its
finally paid off. I therefore contend that we DO complain
bitterly when they stuff up as its possible they might
actually listen!

Now, about those logos!

>-----Original Message-----
>And what's the point of this mail ?
>
>You want to warn us or want to address microsoft
>about grievance you had ?
>
>In either case, nothing is going to change.
>
>Next, Going to linux/java doesn't solve this problem,
because
>atleast you found someone to answer at microsoft, for
others
>you won't even find the support rep!
>
>Best Regards,
>FLu.
>
>"Tobin" <> wrote in
message
>news:075301c3ae54$ccdeb860$...
>> Microsoft has lied to me yet again.
>>
>> Perhaps Microsoft themselves should "analyze" their own
>> requirements because for the last time, they have
screwed
>> this developer out of his hard-earned work.
>>
>> Microsoft threw down the gauntlet for developers on the
>> MCSD.NET track. They said [paraphrase] "Get your MCSD
by
>> September 30th, and you'll be recognized as an Early
>> Adopter." You can find the exact wording here:
>>
http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/m...d/benefits.asp
>> in the first paragraph.
>>
>> I have been so wrapped up in work that I didn't hear
about
>> this information until mid-September. Someone joked
and
>> said "you better hurry up" thinking I wouldn't try.
Well,
>> I took my first test on September 9th, and had my MCAD
>> within a week. At this point, I could have either
kept up
>> this pace, or stretched things out to take my last
exam on
>> the 30th. I wanted to be certain that I didn't screw
up
>> so I called Microsoft and verified that I would indeed
get
>> the EA credential if I took the exam Tuesday morning
>> (September 30th). It was inconvenient for me to take
the
>> exam on the 29th due to a meeting, but I would have
>> rescheduled if I had known what was to come.
>>
>> I took the final exam I had to take at 9:15am and
passed.
>> All done. I had accomplished my goal and taken all 5
>> exams within a 21 day time period despite a busy work
>> schedule. I realized today that I had yet to receive
my
>> updated wallet card with the MCSD. I called to inquire
>> and Microsoft apologized for not getting it out.
However,
>> being that I'm sure they don't keep reproducing "Early
>> Adopter" cards like the rest of the cards I said, "Mine
>> will still say Early Adopter on it, wont it?"
>>
>> The CSR paused and said, "I don't see that you got that
>> certification. What is it?"
>>
>> He waited longer and searched before stating, "That is
>> only for the first couple thousand people, it wasn't
based
>> on a date."
>>
>> I said, "No, that's the MCAD 'Charter Member'
credential.
>> I'm talking about the MCSD Early Adopter."
>>
>> He said, "let me look".
>>
>> After waiting he said "who told you about this? I don't
>> see anything about it."
>>
>> I had to tell him it was on the MS website and had to
find
>> it. He came back and pointed me to another site
>>
(http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/m...d/showcase.asp)
..
>> This site said I had to get it _before_ September 30th
>> which conflicts with the link above and has different
>> wording. So instead of saying "yeah, the wording was
>> kinda misleading" Microsoft has chosen to disrespect a
>> developer that has long evangelized their products,
>> authored books about their software, and sold many
>> solutions that have made them money (not that I make
up a
>> large portion of their gross revenue or anything).
>>
>> This is the last time. I'm turning all my efforts to
Java
>> as soon as I possibly can. I will run Linux at home. I
>> will sell my XBox and get another console. I'll have a
>> Microsoft software burning party in my backyard. I'll
>> offer free Linux courses on a weekly basis in my
>> neighborhood and allow anyone else who wants to come
in.
>> I'm going to start developing Linux solutions for
charity
>> in my spare time.
>>
>> Why am I so ticked over this? Whats the big deal?
Because
>> I am tired of being lied to by Microsoft. I'm tired of
>> Microsoft treating developers like they don't matter.
I'm
>> sick of the whole system they've created. They need
>> competition.. and they need it badly. They are second-
>> rate in support and always will be until they HAVE to
>> provide good support and are FORCED to be reasonable.
>> They cut back on benefits for getting certified mostly
>> because they themselves know that certification doesn't
>> mean anything to employers.
>>
>> Go ahead and get certified. See if it actually brings
you
>> anything. MIcrosoft wont think any better of you.
>> Microsoft doesn't even consider certification of value
>> within the organization. They don't think any better
of
>> you for getting certified, why should other employers?
>> I'm telling you now, Sun will welcome you and give you
>> support if you get certified in their program. They'll
>> show their appreciation by giving you things you
deserve
>> for your hard work.
>
>
>.
>

>To clarify. The use of ' before ' can be inclusive of a
>date. In fact its quite common with British english
(yes,
>there is another variety other than American). For
>example:

Didn't the Americans invent English ?
& win the Battle of Britain single handed too ?