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Architecture -- Help!

 
 
Kenny
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-16-2003
Hi guys, I need your opinions and suggestions

this is the scenario:

40 or more clients distributed along the city (those are
like Kiosks), each one is collecting information in a DB
locally (MSAccess xx) , and each one has to update a
central statistics DB (SqlServer7 or 2000) located in a
Server Remotely every 5 or 10 minutes, using a wireless
net to access the internet at 56kb (The package to send is
going to be 4Kb max per trip), this in not an online-
fulltime connection, the access to the net is only made
when it is necessary to update the statistics server (via
modem), also it is not VPN.

Requirements:
The App on the clients have to be as light as possible
cause the machines are not powerful, those clients
machines are only to collect data locally and then send it
to the server.


My solution so far:

* Client App: VB6 - MSAccess Or VB.NET - MSAccess (It
Depends on the hardware .Net requirement)

* For communication: VB6 - Interop - Web Service -
SQLserver Or VB.NET - WebService - SQLServer.

* On the server: A Web Service(s) updating the
Statistics DB

My questions:

* What are the minimum Requirements (Mhz ,Ram ,SO) for a
client machine running a .Net App?
* Am I on the right way or am I totally wrong, How would
you make it?

Any Idea will be appreciated
Thanks,

Kenny


 
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Paul Robson
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-16-2003
Kenny wrote:

> Hi guys,**I*need*your*opinions*and**suggestions
>
> this is the scenario:
>
> 40*or*more*clients*distributed*along*the*city*(those*are
> like Kiosks),**each*one*is*collecting*information*in*a*DB
> locally (MSAccess xx) , and each one has to update a
> central statistics DB (SqlServer7 or 2000) located in a
> Server Remotely every 5 or 10 minutes, using a wireless
> net to access the internet at 56kb (The package to send is
> going to be**4Kb*max*per*trip),*this*in*not*an*online-
> fulltime connection, the access to the net is only made
> when it is necessary to update the statistics server (via
> modem), also it is not VPN.
>
> Requirements:
> The App on the clients have to be as light as possible
> cause the machines are not powerful, those clients
> machines are only to collect data locally and then send it
> to the server.


Well..... how about not using Access etc ? At the risk of sounding rather
prehistoric, given you are using so little data, why not just write an app
to collect that and send it in some simple text format - encrypted if you
need it - and do all the work at the far end.
 
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Kenny
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-17-2003
Hi Paul,

The clients are going to be Pentium I or Pentium II with
64Mb Ram. I can not invest on more powerful machines
because of the costs (They are so many 40+), the local DB
in access is more light than the lighter SQLserver version
(MSDE), also the local data will be save (in the central
server) daily (and then erased locally) so I don't need
to store large amount of data locally.

You are right I will send a simple text format encrypted,
but the frequency can be 5 min, 10 min, 15 min etc, so I
need to collect data locally until the transmission is
made.

The information have to be sent periodically because
decisions have to be made based on this data (the info
represent money). The clients are going to be collecting
data eight hours per day (kind of telemetry system).

if you think I can make it easier, please let me know how

Thanks Paul





>-----Original Message-----
>Kenny wrote:
>
>> Hi guys, I need your opinions and suggestions
>>
>> this is the scenario:
>>
>> 40 or more clients distributed along the city (those are
>> like

Kiosks), each one is collecting information in a DB
>> locally (MSAccess xx) , and each one has to update a
>> central statistics DB (SqlServer7 or 2000) located in a
>> Server Remotely every 5 or 10 minutes, using a wireless
>> net to access the internet at 56kb (The package to send

is
>> going to be 4Kb max per trip), this in not an online-
>> fulltime connection, the access to the net is only made
>> when it is necessary to update the statistics server

(via
>> modem), also it is not VPN.
>>
>> Requirements:
>> The App on the clients have to be as light as possible
>> cause the machines are not powerful, those clients
>> machines are only to collect data locally and then send

it
>> to the server.

>
>Well..... how about not using Access etc ? At the risk of

sounding rather
>prehistoric, given you are using so little data, why not

just write an app
>to collect that and send it in some simple text format -

encrypted if you
>need it - and do all the work at the far end.
>.
>

 
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Paul Robson
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-17-2003
Kenny wrote:

> The clients**are*going*to*be*Pentium*I*or*Pentium*II*with
> 64Mb Ram. I can not invest on more powerful machines
> because of the costs (They are so many 40+), the local DB
> in access is more light than the lighter SQLserver version
> (MSDE), also the local data will be save (in the central
> server) daily (and then erased locally)**so*I*don't*need
> to store large amount of data locally.
>
> You are right I will send a simple text format encrypted,
> but the frequency can be**5*min,*10*min,*15*min*etc,*so*I
> need to collect data locally until the transmission is
> made.
>
> The information have to be sent periodically because
> decisions have to be made based on this data**(the*info
> represent money). The clients are going to be collecting
> data eight hours per day (kind of telemetry system).
>
> if*you*think*I*can*make*it*easier,*please*let*me*know*how


It's rather difficult to say. It sounds like some sort of census taking or
survey system ? If you are so strapped for cash why actually spend money on
Windows and Access licenses (which would cost more than the computers if
they are P1s).

If you are using it simply for data collection you need a simple cheap tool
to do this - if you are definite about Windows then probably just write it
in VB or Delphi, or even write it as an MSDOS program (you could use some
of Borland's tools which are now available free).

All this program needs to do by the sound of it is simply collect and
validate the data (presumably) in a basic way, put it in a file and squirt
it via a Dialup modem to your analysis machine.

This can be whatever you like - if you want to use Access (yuk!) or VB.NET
or whatever, it doesn't really matter, whatever the best tool is for the
analysis you want to do.

 
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Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-17-2003

Gnerally, a .NET application will have greater system requirements than a VB
6.0 app. This may be an issue if the kiosks are marginal machines. Also,
based on my assumption that you are performing only inserts to the local
data, I think that TAB Delimited format (written using I/O text functions)
would have the following advantages over ADO / MS Access:

- By avoiding ADO, you will use fewer system dependencies / resources.
- The files will be smaller, thus uploading faster.
- TAB Delimited is more reliable. Unlike MS Access, it doesn't require
occasional maintenace (compacting data / indexes, etc.).
- TAB Delimited files can be Bulk Copied into SQL Server.

WKidd

"Kenny" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:01a901c3ac6d$bbf20900$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi guys, I need your opinions and suggestions
>
> this is the scenario:
>
> 40 or more clients distributed along the city (those are
> like Kiosks), each one is collecting information in a DB
> locally (MSAccess xx) , and each one has to update a
> central statistics DB (SqlServer7 or 2000) located in a
> Server Remotely every 5 or 10 minutes, using a wireless
> net to access the internet at 56kb (The package to send is
> going to be 4Kb max per trip), this in not an online-
> fulltime connection, the access to the net is only made
> when it is necessary to update the statistics server (via
> modem), also it is not VPN.
>
> Requirements:
> The App on the clients have to be as light as possible
> cause the machines are not powerful, those clients
> machines are only to collect data locally and then send it
> to the server.
>
>
> My solution so far:
>
> * Client App: VB6 - MSAccess Or VB.NET - MSAccess (It
> Depends on the hardware .Net requirement)
>
> * For communication: VB6 - Interop - Web Service -
> SQLserver Or VB.NET - WebService - SQLServer.
>
> * On the server: A Web Service(s) updating the
> Statistics DB
>
> My questions:
>
> * What are the minimum Requirements (Mhz ,Ram ,SO) for a
> client machine running a .Net App?
> * Am I on the right way or am I totally wrong, How would
> you make it?
>
> Any Idea will be appreciated
> Thanks,
>
> Kenny
>
>



 
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Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-17-2003
Also, I'd recommend:

- Invest about $50 per PC and upgrade memory to at least 128 MB.
- Forget about Web Services and transmit the files using FTP.

WKidd


<WKidd> wrote in message news:#(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> Gnerally, a .NET application will have greater system requirements than a

VB
> 6.0 app. This may be an issue if the kiosks are marginal machines. Also,
> based on my assumption that you are performing only inserts to the local
> data, I think that TAB Delimited format (written using I/O text functions)
> would have the following advantages over ADO / MS Access:
>
> - By avoiding ADO, you will use fewer system dependencies / resources.
> - The files will be smaller, thus uploading faster.
> - TAB Delimited is more reliable. Unlike MS Access, it doesn't require
> occasional maintenace (compacting data / indexes, etc.).
> - TAB Delimited files can be Bulk Copied into SQL Server.
>
> WKidd
>
> "Kenny" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:01a901c3ac6d$bbf20900$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Hi guys, I need your opinions and suggestions
> >
> > this is the scenario:
> >
> > 40 or more clients distributed along the city (those are
> > like Kiosks), each one is collecting information in a DB
> > locally (MSAccess xx) , and each one has to update a
> > central statistics DB (SqlServer7 or 2000) located in a
> > Server Remotely every 5 or 10 minutes, using a wireless
> > net to access the internet at 56kb (The package to send is
> > going to be 4Kb max per trip), this in not an online-
> > fulltime connection, the access to the net is only made
> > when it is necessary to update the statistics server (via
> > modem), also it is not VPN.
> >
> > Requirements:
> > The App on the clients have to be as light as possible
> > cause the machines are not powerful, those clients
> > machines are only to collect data locally and then send it
> > to the server.
> >
> >
> > My solution so far:
> >
> > * Client App: VB6 - MSAccess Or VB.NET - MSAccess (It
> > Depends on the hardware .Net requirement)
> >
> > * For communication: VB6 - Interop - Web Service -
> > SQLserver Or VB.NET - WebService - SQLServer.
> >
> > * On the server: A Web Service(s) updating the
> > Statistics DB
> >
> > My questions:
> >
> > * What are the minimum Requirements (Mhz ,Ram ,SO) for a
> > client machine running a .Net App?
> > * Am I on the right way or am I totally wrong, How would
> > you make it?
> >
> > Any Idea will be appreciated
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Kenny
> >
> >

>
>



 
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Kline Sphere
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-17-2003
>The clients are going to be Pentium I or Pentium II with
>64Mb Ram. I can not invest on more powerful machines
>because of the costs (They are so many 40+),


What! I seen more powerful machines dumped on sidewalks!
 
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Cowboy \(Gregory A. Beamer\)
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-18-2003
First, I would can the Access database. As long as you are a licensed Visual
Studio developer, you can deploy MSDE to the kiosks. While MSDE has a 5 user
limit at any specific point in time, you are talking a kiosk, which only one
person can use, at a time. MSDE is SQL Server, which means you can use pull
replication to get the stats to the central database, which eliminates the
need to code a custom upload.

Light app? You can go light with a kiosk with XP, but you can even go
lighter with CE as the OS and SQL CE as the database. This will give you an
extremely low power OS that can run on battery easily. If you are connected
to power, you do not have to consider this. You can get .NET rather light
either way, but you will need storage, whether hard drive or DOM chip.

I would opt for .NET over VB6, although the familiarity of the developer(s)
may be a factor here. You can get some old machines that can run .NET fine,
as long as you have enough memory. As memory is fairly cheap, it is not an
expensive solution.

I would define the business specs (functional specs) completely before
getting into the hardware issues. The initial expense may be lower with VB,
but the upkeep could get expensive.

If money is the only object here, you can aim for the VB 6 version. I would
still consider a bit more RAM and MSDE, as it will save you tons of time
when transfering data.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

************************************************** ********************
Think Outside the Box!
************************************************** ********************
"Kenny" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:01a901c3ac6d$bbf20900$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi guys, I need your opinions and suggestions
>
> this is the scenario:
>
> 40 or more clients distributed along the city (those are
> like Kiosks), each one is collecting information in a DB
> locally (MSAccess xx) , and each one has to update a
> central statistics DB (SqlServer7 or 2000) located in a
> Server Remotely every 5 or 10 minutes, using a wireless
> net to access the internet at 56kb (The package to send is
> going to be 4Kb max per trip), this in not an online-
> fulltime connection, the access to the net is only made
> when it is necessary to update the statistics server (via
> modem), also it is not VPN.
>
> Requirements:
> The App on the clients have to be as light as possible
> cause the machines are not powerful, those clients
> machines are only to collect data locally and then send it
> to the server.
>
>
> My solution so far:
>
> * Client App: VB6 - MSAccess Or VB.NET - MSAccess (It
> Depends on the hardware .Net requirement)
>
> * For communication: VB6 - Interop - Web Service -
> SQLserver Or VB.NET - WebService - SQLServer.
>
> * On the server: A Web Service(s) updating the
> Statistics DB
>
> My questions:
>
> * What are the minimum Requirements (Mhz ,Ram ,SO) for a
> client machine running a .Net App?
> * Am I on the right way or am I totally wrong, How would
> you make it?
>
> Any Idea will be appreciated
> Thanks,
>
> Kenny
>
>




 
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Kenny
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-18-2003
Umm ok Tab Delimited format is going to be used to send
the info (that is the package). the Db must exist because
it have parameter that the application has to read

Now, Why should I use FTP (faster?, Ithink I'will work
more or not?) I thinking about Web services because I need
an application on the server reading the Package (.txt)
and updating the Central DB with the info inside, so that
is why I think Web service is nice.

What is the advantage of FTP (To be honest I've never used
it on my apps, may be this is the time..)

ky
>-----Original Message-----
>Hi guys, I need your opinions and suggestions
>
>this is the scenario:
>
> 40 or more clients distributed along the city (those are
>like Kiosks), each one is collecting information in a DB
>locally (MSAccess xx) , and each one has to update a
>central statistics DB (SqlServer7 or 2000) located in a
>Server Remotely every 5 or 10 minutes, using a wireless
>net to access the internet at 56kb (The package to send

is
>going to be 4Kb max per trip), this in not an online-
>fulltime connection, the access to the net is only made
>when it is necessary to update the statistics server (via
>modem), also it is not VPN.
>
>Requirements:
>The App on the clients have to be as light as possible
>cause the machines are not powerful, those clients
>machines are only to collect data locally and then send

it
>to the server.
>
>
>My solution so far:
>
>* Client App: VB6 - MSAccess Or VB.NET - MSAccess (It
>Depends on the hardware .Net requirement)
>
>* For communication: VB6 - Interop - Web Service -
>SQLserver Or VB.NET - WebService - SQLServer.
>
>* On the server: A Web Service(s) updating the
>Statistics DB
>
>My questions:
>
>* What are the minimum Requirements (Mhz ,Ram ,SO) for a
>client machine running a .Net App?
>* Am I on the right way or am I totally wrong, How

would
>you make it?
>
>Any Idea will be appreciated
>Thanks,
>
>Kenny
>
>
>.
>

 
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Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-18-2003

Web Services would require more bandwidth (XML tagging the data) and
implementing additional programming on the client and server. Perhaps that
this is not an issue.

As an alternative to both Web Services and FTP, you could just BCP directly
from the PC to the server. This would be very efficient and involve
programming a single command. For example:

bcp.exe c:\data\filename.dat in dbname..tablename -c -S 999.999.999.999 -U
uid -P pw

Here, 999.999.999.999 represents the IP address of SQL Server. You will need
to discuss with the LAN administrator if this is an option.

WKidd

"Kenny" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:06e801c3ade3$49880be0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Umm ok Tab Delimited format is going to be used to send
> the info (that is the package). the Db must exist because
> it have parameter that the application has to read
>
> Now, Why should I use FTP (faster?, Ithink I'will work
> more or not?) I thinking about Web services because I need
> an application on the server reading the Package (.txt)
> and updating the Central DB with the info inside, so that
> is why I think Web service is nice.
>
> What is the advantage of FTP (To be honest I've never used
> it on my apps, may be this is the time..)
>
> ky
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Hi guys, I need your opinions and suggestions
> >
> >this is the scenario:
> >
> > 40 or more clients distributed along the city (those are
> >like Kiosks), each one is collecting information in a DB
> >locally (MSAccess xx) , and each one has to update a
> >central statistics DB (SqlServer7 or 2000) located in a
> >Server Remotely every 5 or 10 minutes, using a wireless
> >net to access the internet at 56kb (The package to send

> is
> >going to be 4Kb max per trip), this in not an online-
> >fulltime connection, the access to the net is only made
> >when it is necessary to update the statistics server (via
> >modem), also it is not VPN.
> >
> >Requirements:
> >The App on the clients have to be as light as possible
> >cause the machines are not powerful, those clients
> >machines are only to collect data locally and then send

> it
> >to the server.
> >
> >
> >My solution so far:
> >
> >* Client App: VB6 - MSAccess Or VB.NET - MSAccess (It
> >Depends on the hardware .Net requirement)
> >
> >* For communication: VB6 - Interop - Web Service -
> >SQLserver Or VB.NET - WebService - SQLServer.
> >
> >* On the server: A Web Service(s) updating the
> >Statistics DB
> >
> >My questions:
> >
> >* What are the minimum Requirements (Mhz ,Ram ,SO) for a
> >client machine running a .Net App?
> >* Am I on the right way or am I totally wrong, How

> would
> >you make it?
> >
> >Any Idea will be appreciated
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Kenny
> >
> >
> >.
> >



 
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