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Eneloop follow up

 
 
tnom@mucks.net
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      02-14-2007
It's been 48 days since I bought and charged a four pack of Eneloops.
The two un-used Eneloops have been sitting on the shelf at room
temperature and still measure 1.34 volts. The two in my camera that
have been used sporadically (200 pics) still indicate full.
 
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Dave Cohen
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      02-15-2007
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> It's been 48 days since I bought and charged a four pack of Eneloops.
> The two un-used Eneloops have been sitting on the shelf at room
> temperature and still measure 1.34 volts. The two in my camera that
> have been used sporadically (200 pics) still indicate full.


I bought a set of 4 mid September. Took 650 shots (camera takes 4 cells)
and performed first charge near end of November. Still in camera. The
open circuit voltage isn't a very reliable guide. I and I only paid $12
at Ritz (Circuit City are asking a little more).
Dave Cohen
 
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JohnR66
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      02-15-2007
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> It's been 48 days since I bought and charged a four pack of Eneloops.
> The two un-used Eneloops have been sitting on the shelf at room
> temperature and still measure 1.34 volts. The two in my camera that
> have been used sporadically (200 pics) still indicate full.


I bought the "hybrid" Rayovac version. 4 pack for $9 at Walmart. They sat
for 3 weeks before I got around to using them. They came out of the pack
charged and ready to go. Still going in my camera after a couple weeks.
Thats 5 weeks plus however long since they came frome the factory. Several
months?

These new long shelf life rechargables are a battery revolution if the long
shelf life effect doesn't fade after many rechargings. Time will tell. So
far they are wonderful.
John


 
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Bill Tuthill
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      02-15-2007
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> It's been 48 days since I bought and charged a four pack of Eneloops.
> The two un-used Eneloops have been sitting on the shelf at room
> temperature and still measure 1.34 volts. The two in my camera that
> have been used sporadically (200 pics) still indicate full.


Thanks for the report.

According to www.eneloop.info, Eneloop batteries use NiMH technology.
Any idea why they don't self-discharge as much as old-style NiMH?
I found this, which is rather sketchy:

http://www.eneloop.info/213.html

 
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JohnR66
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      02-15-2007
"Bill Tuthill" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> It's been 48 days since I bought and charged a four pack of Eneloops.
>> The two un-used Eneloops have been sitting on the shelf at room
>> temperature and still measure 1.34 volts. The two in my camera that
>> have been used sporadically (200 pics) still indicate full.

>
> Thanks for the report.
>
> According to www.eneloop.info, Eneloop batteries use NiMH technology.
> Any idea why they don't self-discharge as much as old-style NiMH?
> I found this, which is rather sketchy:
>
> http://www.eneloop.info/213.html
>

Without a PhD in chemistry and battery design experience, who could tell if
its marketing or science. Eneloop says more than Rayovac. They say it is a
separater film and better chemistry. As long as it works!
John


 
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Paul Rubin
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      02-17-2007
Bill Tuthill <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> According to www.eneloop.info, Eneloop batteries use NiMH technology.
> Any idea why they don't self-discharge as much as old-style NiMH?


There is conjecture among certain aficionados that they ARE old-style
NiMH. NiMH technology has been improving steadily but there has also
been a capacity race, to get the most possible mAH into a cell, by
using thinner and thinner separators resulting in more leakage,
especially if small shorts develop across the separator. We've seen
many incidents (particularly with certain runs of Sanyo batteries)
where brand new cells have reasonably slow self-discharge but once
they've been used a while, it gets a lot faster (Sanyo has been
replacing such cells at for free).

Eneloop (according to this theory) is simply the same old NiMH
technology used less aggressively, going back to thicker separators so
capacity suffers, but the leakage goes away and self-discharge slows
down a lot.

I do know that the 1600 mAH NiMH cells that came with the Olympus
E-100RS that I bought in 2001 are still going strong and I often let
that camera sit for months between uses without having to recharge the
batteries.
 
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ASAAR
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      02-17-2007
On 17 Feb 2007 14:01:35 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Eneloop (according to this theory) is simply the same old NiMH
> technology used less aggressively, going back to thicker separators so
> capacity suffers, but the leakage goes away and self-discharge slows
> down a lot.
>
> I do know that the 1600 mAH NiMH cells that came with the Olympus
> E-100RS that I bought in 2001 are still going strong and I often let
> that camera sit for months between uses without having to recharge the
> batteries.


Something has changed, at least since the first couple of years
NiMH was sold. The 900mAh and 1,000 mAh AA cells didn't have very
good self-discharge rates, and it was quite a concern, at least
among those using the HP100lx and 200lx handheld computers. It's
not just a matter of whether the cells retain any charge, but how
much. How much of their initial charge do your 1,600 mAh cells
retain after 6 or 9 months? If they are comparable to Eneloops,
they should be able to retain much more than 50% after sitting for
about 2 years. None of my old NiMH cells retained much of anything
if they sat unused for a year. Thicker, better separators sounds
reasonable, since it would explain the reduced capacity, and
manufacturers are all saying not only that old NiMH chargers can be
used, but that these "new" batteries are still NiMH, so whatever has
changed is slight, but seems to have had a profound effect on the
usability of NiMH cells.

 
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Ron Hunter
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      02-19-2007
Paul Rubin wrote:
> Bill Tuthill <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>> According to www.eneloop.info, Eneloop batteries use NiMH technology.
>> Any idea why they don't self-discharge as much as old-style NiMH?

>
> There is conjecture among certain aficionados that they ARE old-style
> NiMH. NiMH technology has been improving steadily but there has also
> been a capacity race, to get the most possible mAH into a cell, by
> using thinner and thinner separators resulting in more leakage,
> especially if small shorts develop across the separator. We've seen
> many incidents (particularly with certain runs of Sanyo batteries)
> where brand new cells have reasonably slow self-discharge but once
> they've been used a while, it gets a lot faster (Sanyo has been
> replacing such cells at for free).
>
> Eneloop (according to this theory) is simply the same old NiMH
> technology used less aggressively, going back to thicker separators so
> capacity suffers, but the leakage goes away and self-discharge slows
> down a lot.
>
> I do know that the 1600 mAH NiMH cells that came with the Olympus
> E-100RS that I bought in 2001 are still going strong and I often let
> that camera sit for months between uses without having to recharge the
> batteries.


All the NIMH batteries I have are discharged to the point of unusability
in about 3 months. I have begun to avoid using them in favor of lithium
disposables.
 
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