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Dry Mount Issues With Lab Prints

 
 
Matt
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      12-25-2006
Hello,

I need help solving a problem with ink bleed following dry mounting.

I am dry mounting prints from my color lab using a Seal dry mount press,
Colormount tissue, and rag board from Light Impressions. The prints are
produced by White House Custom Colour (http://www.whcc.com/) on Kodak
Professional Endura paper.

Dry mounting works perfectly, except that the studio name, copyright date,
and image file name printed on the back show through in light-valued
areas of the print. The color lab prints this information on the back of
every print.

I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
both temperature and duration to no avail.

Does anyone have experience or advice related to this issue? Is there any
way to prevent printed text on the back of a lab print from bleeding
through to the front? Thank you in advance.

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Colin_D
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      12-25-2006
Matt wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I need help solving a problem with ink bleed following dry mounting.
>
> I am dry mounting prints from my color lab using a Seal dry mount press,
> Colormount tissue, and rag board from Light Impressions. The prints are
> produced by White House Custom Colour (http://www.whcc.com/) on Kodak
> Professional Endura paper.
>
> Dry mounting works perfectly, except that the studio name, copyright date,
> and image file name printed on the back show through in light-valued
> areas of the print. The color lab prints this information on the back of
> every print.
>
> I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
> both temperature and duration to no avail.
>
> Does anyone have experience or advice related to this issue? Is there any
> way to prevent printed text on the back of a lab print from bleeding
> through to the front? Thank you in advance.
>

Most labs that print on the back use a very light gray ink, sparingly,
to avoid bleed-through. You say 'my' color lab, does that mean they're
your images, and your copyright? If so, I'd take one of your mounted
prints to the lab, show them what they are doing, and request them to
lighten the printing, or better still, don't print anything on the back
at all. There's not much point in back printing a photograph that is to
be mounted, anyway. If they're not your images, you might still be able
to get them to lighten the printing.

If they don't/won't cooperate, change your lab.

Colin D.

Colin D.

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Gregory Blank
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      12-25-2006
In article <(E-Mail Removed)> ,
Matt <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
> both temperature and duration to no avail.


WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.

Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
print and supporting boards.
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Matt
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      12-25-2006
On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 23:54:52 +1300, Colin_D wrote:
> Most labs that print on the back use a very light gray ink, sparingly,
> to avoid bleed-through. You say 'my' color lab, does that mean they're
> your images, and your copyright? If so, I'd take one of your mounted
> prints to the lab, show them what they are doing, and request them to
> lighten the printing, or better still, don't print anything on the back
> at all. There's not much point in back printing a photograph that is to
> be mounted, anyway. If they're not your images, you might still be able
> to get them to lighten the printing.
>
> If they don't/won't cooperate, change your lab.


Thanks, Colin. I'll be sure to ask the lab that does my prints to omit the
back-printing for my next print run.

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Matt
 
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Matt
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      12-25-2006
On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 09:47:43 -0500, Gregory Blank wrote:
>> I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
>> both temperature and duration to no avail.

>
> WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
>
> Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
> temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
> side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
> print and supporting boards.


Hi Gregory,

Can you provide me with an example brand of tissue to look for and/or a
URL?

I was using 2 minutes for 8x12" prints and about 1 minute for 6x9",
following the temperature guide included with my Colormount tissue.

After I noticed the bleeding problems I reduced my temperature down to 175
and time to 30s. The Colormount wouldn't bind properly at this temp.

I'm also not using release paper---just 4-ply rag board as the supporting
boards.

Thank you for your advice, I'll look around and experiment.

--
Matt

 
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Scott W
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      12-25-2006

Gregory Blank wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> ,
> Matt <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> > I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
> > both temperature and duration to no avail.

>
> WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
>
> Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
> temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
> side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
> print and supporting boards.


Are you dealing in C or F?

Scott

 
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Colin_D
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      12-25-2006
Scott W wrote:
> Gregory Blank wrote:
>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> ,
>> Matt <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
>>> both temperature and duration to no avail.

>> WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
>>
>> Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
>> temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
>> side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
>> print and supporting boards.

>
> Are you dealing in C or F?
>
> Scott
>

It'll be F. Seal is an American company, and I had one of their larger
presses, would do 20x30 in one shot, but getting adequate pressure was a
problem with that much area. I went to a vacuum press after that. At a
unit pressure of about 14lb. per inch^2, the total pressure over a 20x30
print was about 8,400 lbs, or about four tons. A mechanical press could
get nowhere near that pressure.

The pressure and vacuum combined removed all air from between the print.
mount tissue, and board, resulting in excellent adhesion, extremely flat
results that looked very good, better than any cold-mount system I've seen.

190F won't hurt a print, chemical or inkjet. The 'dwell', or time at
that heat, should be as short as you can manage.

Colin D.

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Scott W
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      12-25-2006

Colin_D wrote:
> Scott W wrote:
> > Gregory Blank wrote:
> >> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> ,
> >> Matt <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>> I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
> >>> both temperature and duration to no avail.
> >> WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
> >>
> >> Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
> >> temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
> >> side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
> >> print and supporting boards.

> >
> > Are you dealing in C or F?
> >
> > Scott
> >

> It'll be F. Seal is an American company, and I had one of their larger
> presses, would do 20x30 in one shot, but getting adequate pressure was a
> problem with that much area. I went to a vacuum press after that. At a
> unit pressure of about 14lb. per inch^2, the total pressure over a 20x30
> print was about 8,400 lbs, or about four tons. A mechanical press could
> get nowhere near that pressure.
>
> The pressure and vacuum combined removed all air from between the print.
> mount tissue, and board, resulting in excellent adhesion, extremely flat
> results that looked very good, better than any cold-mount system I've seen.
>
> 190F won't hurt a print, chemical or inkjet. The 'dwell', or time at
> that heat, should be as short as you can manage.
>
> Colin D.


I was thinking maybe Gregory was working in C since 120 to 130F seems
too cool to work.

Scott

 
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Colin_D
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      12-26-2006
Scott W wrote:
> Colin_D wrote:
>> Scott W wrote:
>>> Gregory Blank wrote:
>>>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> ,
>>>> Matt <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>> I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
>>>>> both temperature and duration to no avail.
>>>> WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
>>>>
>>>> Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
>>>> temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
>>>> side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
>>>> print and supporting boards.
>>> Are you dealing in C or F?
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>

>> It'll be F. Seal is an American company, and I had one of their larger
>> presses, would do 20x30 in one shot, but getting adequate pressure was a
>> problem with that much area. I went to a vacuum press after that. At a
>> unit pressure of about 14lb. per inch^2, the total pressure over a 20x30
>> print was about 8,400 lbs, or about four tons. A mechanical press could
>> get nowhere near that pressure.
>>
>> The pressure and vacuum combined removed all air from between the print.
>> mount tissue, and board, resulting in excellent adhesion, extremely flat
>> results that looked very good, better than any cold-mount system I've seen.
>>
>> 190F won't hurt a print, chemical or inkjet. The 'dwell', or time at
>> that heat, should be as short as you can manage.
>>
>> Colin D.

>
> I was thinking maybe Gregory was working in C since 120 to 130F seems
> too cool to work.
>
> Scott
>

It's a while now since I retired and quit mounting, but I haven't heard
of mount tissue working at 120F. A good hot day would see the print
lifting. The lowest activating temp I have found is about 160 F.

Colin D.

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Matt
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      12-27-2006
On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 09:58:23 -0800, Scott W wrote:

>
> Gregory Blank wrote:
>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> ,
>> Matt <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm pressing for around 2 minutes at 190 degrees. I have tried varying
>> > both temperature and duration to no avail.

>>
>> WAY TOO HOT and too long of a duration for any kind of color print.
>>
>> Get some low temperature color mount tissue or preferably archival lower
>> temp tissue. Mounts somewhere around 120-30 degrees. Place the image
>> side down, put release paper in front of the image side between the
>> print and supporting boards.

>
> Are you dealing in C or F?
>
> Scott


Scott,

My units are in degrees Fahrenheit, as Colin correctly guessed later in
this thread.

I do not trust the temperature gauge on my Seal press, so I've been
measuring the temp in the center of the platen with a digital thermometer.
I have not, however, measured the temperature between my two supporting
boards---I assume it is lower.

--
Matt

 
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