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Why did reviewers not pick up on the Leica M8 problems?

 
 
ASAAR
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      11-14-2006
On 13 Nov 2006 21:02:59 -0800, Annika1980 wrote:

>> Then those Canonistas can consider their labors to have achieved
>> their goal and can now hang a "Mission Accomplished" banner.
>>

>
> You rang?


Z'at you, Maynard, or maybe Bob, back from the dead?


> Perhaps Leica should forget this newfangled digital stuff and go back
> to doing what it does best .... making obsolete, overpriced film
> cameras that were hot **** in 1954.


Nah. Those oldies don't need any revision. They're already well
suited for IR photography, assuming a convenient film source can be
found.

 
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ASAAR
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      11-14-2006
On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:04:29 GMT, Phil Wheeler wrote:

> It says at LL in "about this website"
>
> "The publisher and primary author of this site is
> Michael Reichmann."


Oh well, it's time to fall back to plan B. We'll need to place a
call to T. Harding and see if she'll provide us with a name and
number from her Rolodex.

 
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Hebee Jeebes
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      11-14-2006
I think your right I think the consumers, the ones that actually spend the
money that companies want so bad have far more power than a reviewer who has
to watch what they say and how they say it. Sure reviews help the companies
but in the end it is the money spending public that has the power.

Complain and complain loudly. Frankly I am surprised that a company as old
and respected as Leica would have such problems with the product.

R


"Scott W" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
>
> Hebee Jeebes wrote:
>> Well, sure a camera that expensive shouldn't have issues. But, it is par
>> for
>> the course these days as well. Consumers do very little to stop this and
>> it
>> is 100% within the power of consumers. If they don't buy, then the
>> companies
>> will do better. However, people do buy and in doing so they let companies
>> get away with a lot of things that they shouldn't get away with. So
>> really
>> consumers shouldn't be complaining because they are getting screwed. For
>> they are the ones that walk around in a permanently stooped position.
>>
>> As for why reviewers didn't catch the problems. They did. They just
>> couldn't
>> risk saying anything. Because if they had then the company in question
>> would
>> never have provided them with another product to review. Reviewers have
>> it
>> hard. They have to balance the truth about a product and the need to keep
>> on
>> companies good side so they can continue to get products to review. They
>> only way around this is if reviewers bought a product like a consumer
>> would.
>> Then they would be 100% free to say what they wanted. However, reviewers,
>> magazines,etc. simply don't have that kind of money. So a lot of bad
>> things
>> are mentioned and those that are are very highly sugar coated.

>
> Actually I believe there is a lot consumers can do about it and we are
> doing it right now. By raising the issues on the various news groups
> and user forums the camera companies are quickly getting the idea that
> times are changing and if you mess up like this word spreads almost
> instantaneously.
>
> And the reviewer who are getting beat up for not reporting on this
> issue I believe will be a bit more careful the next time something like
> this happens.
>
> BTW I have one of the B+W 486 filters (IR blocking filer) and so did a
> quick test of both my 350D and the Sony F828. The 350D showed no IR
> leak problems at all the F828 show a slight purple but nothing like
> what the M8 is producing. When this same filter is used in front of
> the M8 the difference is dramatic.
>
> Scott
>



 
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Hebee Jeebes
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      11-14-2006
Wow they asked for parts to be removed. Now that just reeks of scariness.
Again I would have expected more from Leica. Like saying you know he is
right, there are problems and all of those that have bought our product will
be taken care of. But, I guess customer service isn't what it used to be.

R


"Scott W" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>
> ASAAR wrote:
>> On 13 Nov 2006 12:32:18 -0800, Scott W wrote:
>>
>> > And the reviewer who are getting beat up for not reporting
>> > on this issue I believe will be a bit more careful the next time
>> > something like this happens.

>>
>> And when I criticized that reviewer's sloppy writing, bias and
>> attempts to blame a camera manufacturer for his own incompetence,
>> his "peanut gallery" of fans in r.p.d. first denied those problems,
>> but eventually said it didn't matter, because his unique take on
>> things made for interesting reading. It seems to me that the only
>> thing MR did differently this time is have an opinion that wasn't
>> shared by the majority of his (former?) fickle fans.

>
> He was not really beat up that much, until he divulged that Leica has
> asked him to remove the part of his review that deal with the problem
> and then he complied with their request. This same sort of thing may
> well have gone on with other cameras but this is the first I have seen
> it in such a blatant way.
>
> It is not MR's opinion that is getting people upset, it is he
> willingness to withhold parts of his review that showed flaws in the
> design of the camera.
>
> Scott
>



 
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Philip Homburg
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      11-14-2006
In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
Scott W <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>If the reviews for the M8 could be misleading this time the next time
>it might well be a camera that I would buy.


That's why it's much better to buy a camera that has been on the market
long enough that there are user reports, etc. There will always people
eager enough to buy a camera unseen.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
 
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Phil Wheeler
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      11-14-2006
Annika1980 wrote:
> ASAAR wrote:
>>> You might want to look at some of the Leica forums, a lot of Leica
>>> users who are anything but happy.
>>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...hread=20832100
>>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...hread=20798476

>> Then those Canonistas can consider their labors to have achieved
>> their goal and can now hang a "Mission Accomplished" banner.
>>

>
> You rang?
> Perhaps Leica should forget this newfangled digital stuff and go back
> to doing what it does best .... making obsolete, overpriced film
> cameras that were hot **** in 1954.
>


Their goal is to prove they can make retro,
overpriced digital cameras which look like the
film cameras of 1954. As soon as they have solved
"one or two little problems" they will have
achieved that goal.

Eventually they will have a very nice product for
a very limited customer base: The Questar of
digicams (or perhaps Questar is the Leica of
telescopes). I admire both .. and will own neither.

Phil
 
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Tony Gartshore
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      11-14-2006
In article <4558c6fd$0$34515$(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)
says...
> As for why reviewers didn't catch the problems. They did. They just couldn't
> risk saying anything. Because if they had then the company in question would
> never have provided them with another product to review. Reviewers have it
> hard. They have to balance the truth about a product and the need to keep on
> companies good side so they can continue to get products to review
>


But, having been caught living in the pocket of the manufacturer, the
reviewers in question have caused considerable damage the credibility
they spent years building up. How long will it be before you read a
review and don't ask yourself,' What are they holding back'?

Fortunately for them the public memory is probably quite short !

T.
 
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Hebee Jeebes
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      11-14-2006
Well, only an idiot would base a purchase decision on review. If you don't
know that reviewers have to keep their traps shut to keep getting review
products from companies then it sounds to me you got whatever you deserved.

Reviews from a reviewer, reviews from consumers, etc. are but a very very
small part of the buying decision. At least it is for me. I know reviewers a
handcuffed as far as how honest they can be and consumers choose to get nit
picky over the stupidest things to the point that their reviews are probably
even more worthless.

But, then consumers have the IQ's of a box of rocks so I guess it is a
marriage made in...

R


"Tony Gartshore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <4558c6fd$0$34515$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
> says...
>> As for why reviewers didn't catch the problems. They did. They just
>> couldn't
>> risk saying anything. Because if they had then the company in question
>> would
>> never have provided them with another product to review. Reviewers have
>> it
>> hard. They have to balance the truth about a product and the need to keep
>> on
>> companies good side so they can continue to get products to review
>>

>
> But, having been caught living in the pocket of the manufacturer, the
> reviewers in question have caused considerable damage the credibility
> they spent years building up. How long will it be before you read a
> review and don't ask yourself,' What are they holding back'?
>
> Fortunately for them the public memory is probably quite short !
>
> T.



 
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Annika1980
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      11-15-2006

Phil Wheeler wrote:
> > > Perhaps Leica should forget this newfangled digital stuff and go back

> > to doing what it does best .... making obsolete, overpriced film
> > cameras that were hot **** in 1954.
> >

>
> Their goal is to prove they can make retro,
> overpriced digital cameras which look like the
> film cameras of 1954. As soon as they have solved
> "one or two little problems" they will have
> achieved that goal.


They offer the M* in a chrome finish and a black finish.
I'll bet the chrome ones outsell the black ones 10 to 1.

>
> Eventually they will have a very nice product for
> a very limited customer base: The Questar of
> digicams (or perhaps Questar is the Leica of
> telescopes). I admire both .. and will own neither.


That's an interesting "observation." I know two guys who are
acquaintances of each other and both have very similar personalities.
One of them owns a Leica M3 that he thinks is the ****, while the other
will sometimes bring out his $6K Questar to look at eagles from a
distance. I didn't have the heart to tell that guy that my old beat up
6" Criterion Dynascope will easily outperform it.

 
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John Turco
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      11-17-2006
Annika1980 wrote:
>
> Phil Wheeler wrote:


<edited, for brevity>

> > Eventually they will have a very nice product for
> > a very limited customer base: The Questar of
> > digicams (or perhaps Questar is the Leica of
> > telescopes). I admire both .. and will own neither.

>
> That's an interesting "observation." I know two guys who are
> acquaintances of each other and both have very similar personalities.
> One of them owns a Leica M3 that he thinks is the ****, while the other
> will sometimes bring out his $6K Questar to look at eagles from a
> distance. I didn't have the heart to tell that guy that my old beat up
> 6" Criterion Dynascope will easily outperform it.



Hello, Bret:

Meade man, here. My ETX-60AT may be a tiny (60mm) refractor, yet
optically and electronically, it's a technological triumph.

Oh, and I might add, it cost me well under $200 (off eBay), back
in 2002. <g>


Cordially,
John Turco <(E-Mail Removed)>
 
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