«

"David J. Littleboy" <> wrote in message
news:eii69h$p5v$...
>
> "Skip" <> wrote in message
> news:nW03h.8096$...
>> Not mocking, that is indeed the least expensive full frame camera on the
>> market. As far as additional lenses, in addition to what? What lenses
>> do you already own?
>> And now it's 5:50 am...
>
> Yer clock's busted; it's 10:57 pm or so...
>
> David J. Littleboy
> Tokyo, Japan
>
>
No, it's 7:27...

--
Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
www.pbase.com/skipm

"Joseph Meehan" <> wrote in message
news:TY13h.22798$.. .
> Mark² wrote:
>> Joseph Meehan wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>> I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is
>>>> the cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need
>>>> to purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?
>>>
>>>
>>> Most Canon lenses will work with the XTi. Is that the only reason
>>> you want a full frame sensor?
>>>
>>> If you are looking for a full frame sensor in order to improve
>>> quality, I would not be looking for the cheapest one.
>>
>> Oh?
>> The "cheapest" is the excellent Canon 5D (which is one...of a grand
>> total of TWO currently manufactured full-frame bodies...along with
>> the $7K Cnaon 1Ds Mark II).
>>
>
> I thought there were a couple of far more expensive models, like 20K+
> Maybe they are gone or they were just a fignewton of my imagination.
>
> --
> Joseph Meehan
>
> Dia 's Muire duit
>
>
>
There were, the Kodak DCS 14/n and 14/c, but they were in the $7000 range,
now discontinued. The old Kodak DCS 560 and 760 weren't quite full frame,
IIRC, but were in the $20,000 range. Those are long gone, and only 6mp,
their image quality aren't up to current standards, not to mention a load of
other limitations...

--
Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
www.pbase.com/skipm

On Sat, 4 Nov 2006 07:27:45 -0800, "Skip" <>
wrote:

>"David J. Littleboy" <> wrote in message
>news:eii69h$p5v$...
>>
>> "Skip" <> wrote in message
>> news:nW03h.8096$...
>>> Not mocking, that is indeed the least expensive full frame camera on the
>>> market. As far as additional lenses, in addition to what? What lenses
>>> do you already own?
>>> And now it's 5:50 am...
>>
>> Yer clock's busted; it's 10:57 pm or so...
>>
>> David J. Littleboy
>> Tokyo, Japan
>>
>>
>No, it's 7:27...

Actually, it's 8:58.
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

wrote:
> I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is the
> cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need to
> purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?

Before you decided on the above, did you handle a 30D or the older 20D?
If you did, you would cancel your order. In fact, you'd never have
placed it in the first place.

On Nov 4, 10:11 am, Bill Funk <BigB...@there.com> wrote:
>
> But I would caution you; since your knowledge of DSLRs doesn't seem to
> extend beyond setting the camera to full auto mode and not
> understanding why the camera does what it does, it might be better to
> stick with the XTi to gain some basic understanding of the interaction
> between the shutter speed, aperture and ISO settings, and how you can
> manipulate them to get what you want, before you buy a 5D.

Indeed, I'm a beginner but just earned @ $100. from a photo on one of
the stock photography sites; and I've tutored myself for about six
months now...largely on this group. (Hey, thanks, by the way!)

> Don't fall for the "full
> frame uber alles" idea; full frame isn't a necessity for good
> pictures. What's far more important is a knowledge of how to use what
> you have. There's nothing wrong with the XTI; it has a lot of the
> functionality the 5D has. The APS-C sensor isn't a drawback, it's just
> smaller than full frame. For many (myself included), the crop factor
> that, in effect, multiplies the focal length of a lens by 1.6x is an
> advantage. If you don't need wide angle, there's no problem. If you
> do, there are several lenses that go down to 10mm (16mm equilivant on
> the XTI).

Well, I just got an email that my Rebel has shipped, at $815. It's
easy to pity myself and say beggars can't be choosers, but what an
incredibly self-indulgent attitude to have! I've given away a 4.1 and
will now give away my 7.1 PowerShot A620 (that I came to L-O-V-E, luv v
v!) to family members who make me ashamed I even made this post.

I fall into that category of
just-too-poor-to-afford-the-thing-you-really-want, boo hoo.

On Nov 4, 1:35 pm, "Rich" <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Before you decided on the above, did you handle a 30D or the older 20D?
> If you did, you would cancel your order. In fact, you'd never have
> placed it in the first place.

Yep. I wanted a 20D, but I just can't afford the price difference. If
you know where I can get a non-Chinese (inside joke) 20D for under
$900., please post fast!!!

wrote:
> On Nov 4, 8:38 am, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number
> here)@cox..net> wrote:
>> Canon 5D
>
> Hey, dude, it's not nice to mock less informed posters, even at 5:30
> AM.

I'm not mocking at all.

The fact is...full frame cameras like the 5D are much less forgiving...on
several levels.

One, it will expose the flaws in less-than-top-quality lenses because the
detail is that good.

Two...it requires more care in terms of aperture value and due to the return
of normal vignetting issues we'd all but forgotten about after becoming
accustomed to cropped sensor sizes.

Three: It has no built-in flash...meaning you must buy a show-mounted
flash, or rely solely on ambient light.

Four: If you would prefer help as a new DSLR shooter from the modes which
lesser Canon cameras have (Sports mode, Landscape mode, Macro, etc.)...it is
assumed that you know how to do that, and you are therefore NOT given these
modes--You've got to create the settings yourself.

These are just a few examples.

--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

wrote:
> On Nov 4, 10:11 am, Bill Funk <BigB...@there.com> wrote:
>>
>> But I would caution you; since your knowledge of DSLRs doesn't seem
>> to extend beyond setting the camera to full auto mode and not
>> understanding why the camera does what it does, it might be better to
>> stick with the XTi to gain some basic understanding of the
>> interaction between the shutter speed, aperture and ISO settings,
>> and how you can manipulate them to get what you want, before you buy
>> a 5D.
>
> Indeed, I'm a beginner but just earned @ $100. from a photo on one of
> the stock photography sites; and I've tutored myself for about six
> months now...largely on this group. (Hey, thanks, by the way!)
>
>> Don't fall for the "full
>> frame uber alles" idea; full frame isn't a necessity for good
>> pictures. What's far more important is a knowledge of how to use what
>> you have. There's nothing wrong with the XTI; it has a lot of the
>> functionality the 5D has. The APS-C sensor isn't a drawback, it's
>> just smaller than full frame. For many (myself included), the crop
>> factor that, in effect, multiplies the focal length of a lens by
>> 1.6x is an advantage. If you don't need wide angle, there's no
>> problem. If you do, there are several lenses that go down to 10mm
>> (16mm equilivant on the XTI).
>
> Well, I just got an email that my Rebel has shipped, at $815. It's
> easy to pity myself and say beggars can't be choosers, but what an
> incredibly self-indulgent attitude to have! I've given away a 4.1 and
> will now give away my 7.1 PowerShot A620 (that I came to L-O-V-E, luv
> v v!) to family members who make me ashamed I even made this post.
>
> I fall into that category of
> just-too-poor-to-afford-the-thing-you-really-want, boo hoo.

Once you become familiar with your Rebel and it's
characteristics/requirements, etc., you'll discover that it will be MORE
than enough to create truly stunning images.

--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

Rich wrote:
> wrote:
>> I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is
>> the cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need
>> to purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?
>
> Before you decided on the above, did you handle a 30D or the older
> 20D? If you did, you would cancel your order. In fact, you'd never
> have placed it in the first place.

That's often true, but not always. My dad, for example, bought the 10D on
my recommendation.
He loves it, but would not prefer a lighter-weight camera. I think he would
be thrilled with the Rebel.

--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson

wrote:
> I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is the
> cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need to
> purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?
>
Uhm... cheapest full frame digital would be either the Pentax MZ60 or
EOS 3000, plus an Epson Perfection scanner wouldn't it? Based on
Australian prices ($300AUS for the camera, $200AUS for the scanner),
it's about $5000AUS cheaper than the 5D - that's a lot of film. Yankee
prices may be a bit different.
Now I know that it's not quite as convenient as a true digital, but
cheapest infers a limited budget. It all depends on how much you truly
need full frame for - for most people it is only a relatively small
portion of their photography. If there are things that you absolutely
MUST have full frame for (eg fisheye lenses), and you only need it for a
small portion of your photography, then film+scanner = a far more
economical option. Go Film+Scanner+Cropped Digital and you will have the
best of both worlds, and still come in far cheaper than a 5D - the
cropped digital will give you low cost for your general purpose shooting
(with the benefit of increasing your telephoto), while film+scanner will
give you a relatively cheap option for the full frame needs. Of course
this depends on if you absolutely need full frame. If you don't, then
cropped digital will be fine.