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Leica M8 review on Luminous-Landscape

 
 
David J. Littleboy
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      10-30-2006

"Paul Rubin" <http://(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> "Scott W" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>> Except we have heard for years about how great the Leica is in low
>> light, partly because there is no mirror slap and partly because you
>> can shoot with the lens wide open. But the 5D will blow away the Leica
>> in low light shooting and for a whole lot less money. If your selling
>> point has been low light photography for years you better make a
>> digital that can work at high ISOs.

>
> The traditional Leica low light shot was also black and white, while
> the M8 (and 5D) use a color Bayer filter that kills somewhere between
> one and two stops of the light reaching the sensor.


Reality check. The 5D at ISO 1600 will make 13x19 B&W prints that look
better than ISO 400 8x10s from a Leica loaded with Tri-X that will later be
developed in Rodinal.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan


 
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deryck lant
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      10-30-2006
The message <HPt1h.17549$(E-Mail Removed)>
from "bmoag" <(E-Mail Removed)> contains these words:

> I would get one tomorrow if I could justify the cost. The sensor technology
> is clearly adequate for the Leica mystique.
> The reviewer takes great pains to point out that the rangefinder camera
> experience is the core value of this camera and you either like it or you
> don't.
> I wonder if the recent spate of Leica M film clones will make the digital
> transition or if they are dead end products?


As an optimist I think that as the cost of digital implementation drops then
the major players will make the transition. That great legacy of supreme
glass cannot be ignored.

Deryck
 
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Scott W
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      10-30-2006

David J. Littleboy wrote:
> "Paul Rubin" <http://(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > "Scott W" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> >> Except we have heard for years about how great the Leica is in low
> >> light, partly because there is no mirror slap and partly because you
> >> can shoot with the lens wide open. But the 5D will blow away the Leica
> >> in low light shooting and for a whole lot less money. If your selling
> >> point has been low light photography for years you better make a
> >> digital that can work at high ISOs.

> >
> > The traditional Leica low light shot was also black and white, while
> > the M8 (and 5D) use a color Bayer filter that kills somewhere between
> > one and two stops of the light reaching the sensor.

>
> Reality check. The 5D at ISO 1600 will make 13x19 B&W prints that look
> better than ISO 400 8x10s from a Leica loaded with Tri-X that will later be
> developed in Rodinal.

But Paul is suggesting a monochrome FF CCD, which would be pretty neat
but also pretty limited in appeal.

Scott

 
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Paul Rubin
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      10-30-2006
"David J. Littleboy" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> Reality check. The 5D at ISO 1600 will make 13x19 B&W prints that look
> better than ISO 400 8x10s from a Leica loaded with Tri-X that will later be
> developed in Rodinal.


Why stop there?
 
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Paul Rubin
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      10-30-2006
"Scott W" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> But Paul is suggesting a monochrome FF CCD, which would be pretty neat
> but also pretty limited in appeal.


Limited in appeal compared to what? B&W film was also limited in
appeal.

Fuji is now selling an IR version of the S3 Professional DSLR. That
has to be even more limited in appeal than a monochrome camera.
 
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Jim
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      10-30-2006

"deryck lant" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> The message <XMq1h.8$(E-Mail Removed)>
> from "Kinon O'Cann" <(E-Mail Removed)> contains these words:
>
>> Reichman's review is up, and if you wish to believe him, Leica has hit a
>> home run with this one.

>
>> www.luminous-landscape.com

>
>> I'd like to see some direct comparisons between this camera and the
>> Canon 5D
>> with L primes. Would be interesting.

>
> As the review says:
>
> In the case of the Leica M8 I am pleased to report that overall image
> quality is
> second to none. Only the Canon 5D and 1Ds MKII are better at high ISO,
> and at ISO 400 and lower the M8 is their equal. Then again, right now
> there
> are no other cameras producing as clean high ISO images as these two
> Canons.
> But when combined with the superior quality of Leica lenses, and the
> fact that
> the M8 does not have a resolution reducing AA filter, I would argue that
> there
> are no current 35mm format cameras which offer superior image quality to
> the
> Leica M8 at ISO 400 and lower.

You ought to get something for all that money.
Jim


 
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Scott W
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      10-30-2006

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Scott W" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> > But Paul is suggesting a monochrome FF CCD, which would be pretty neat
> > but also pretty limited in appeal.

>
> Limited in appeal compared to what? B&W film was also limited in
> appeal.
>
> Fuji is now selling an IR version of the S3 Professional DSLR. That
> has to be even more limited in appeal than a monochrome camera.


But you can't really do IR with a standard DSLR. Sure you can sort of
do it will a filter and very long exposures but it does not come close
to what a camera that does not have the IR blocking filter can do.

But a color DSLR can do a pretty go job of B/W for those who like that
look.
And from reading a lot of post froms B/W fans many of them would not
want to do their B/W work with a digital camera. They claim to like
the look of silver prints that are done on enlarger and claim that they
like the process of making the prints by hand.

I am not saying that there would not be a market for such a camera but
I think it would be a very small market. Still it would be a whole lot
more interesting than the M8.

Scott

 
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David J Taylor
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      10-31-2006
David J. Littleboy wrote:
[]
> A Bayer camera without an AA filter is a color Moiré disaster waiting
> to happen on every shot. The MF back users were just beginning to
> figure this out when I stopped following those lists.
>
> Sure, the images look just like Foveon images (snap-to-grid
> pixel-level sharpness), but find some patterns that repeat at the
> wrong frequency, and you'll be dead in the water. IMHO, the Foveon
> snap-to-grid pixel-level sharpness itself is bogus, but at least it
> doesn't do color Moiré.
> Sheesh. Leica is so off the wall, they have me saying nice things
> about Foveon. That's impressive.
>
> David J. Littleboy
> Tokyo, Japan


Of course, it would be OK if the lenses had an MTF cut-off equivalent to
the AA filter. But being Leica lenses, they don't....

David


 
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David J Taylor
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      10-31-2006
Scott W wrote:
[]
> But Paul is suggesting a monochrome FF CCD, which would be pretty neat
> but also pretty limited in appeal.
>
> Scott


"Which camera do I take today - the monochrome M8M or the colour M8?"

Leica might sell twice the number of cameras! <G>

David


 
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Kamal R. Prasad
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      10-31-2006

deryck lant wrote:

> The message <HPt1h.17549$(E-Mail Removed)>
> from "bmoag" <(E-Mail Removed)> contains these words:
>
> > I would get one tomorrow if I could justify the cost. The sensor technology
> > is clearly adequate for the Leica mystique.
> > The reviewer takes great pains to point out that the rangefinder camera
> > experience is the core value of this camera and you either like it or you
> > don't.


He takes great pains to explain that a rangefinder has plus points
provided you know how to use the equipment.

> > I wonder if the recent spate of Leica M film clones will make the digital
> > transition or if they are dead end products?

>

you mean they have clones?

> As an optimist I think that as the cost of digital implementation drops then
> the major players will make the transition. That great legacy of supreme
> glass cannot be ignored.
>


>From what I gather, the instant gratification of seeing the shot

-rather than have it developed, has forced early adoption of digital.
The technology doesn't seem to be ready despite consumers clamouring
for it.

regards
-kamal

 
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