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Digital P&S and color bit depth

 
 
bugbear
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      10-24-2006
AAvK wrote:
>
>> At the risk of topic drift, some cameras
>> offer TIFF as their "lossless" high quality
>> mode.

>
>
> That's what my Nikon 950 does. At 8/24 bit color depth.
>
>> What correction (if any) has been applied,
>> and what bit depth is generated?
>>
>> BugBear

>
>
>
> That question doesn't apply unless you would clearify. I am asking what
> cameras
> do give higher color bit depth than 8/24. Something to upgrade to, over
> the very old 950 ('99).


Yeah - sorry, I wasn't answering your question, more
asking my own.

>
> You are a woodworker on the Albion, yes? I studied your pages a lot,
> especially using the link page for workbenches, a great help.


You're welcome. Nice to know my effort has some benefit.

BugBear
 
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Peter Chant
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      10-24-2006
Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote:


> What's the "?" link for next to each line on the comparison page. god
> helps those who help themselves. Of try a google search on dpreview
> article raw. I'm not going to spoon feed you just because you're too lazy
> to look around for yourself. This is basic info.


Trying swiftly to avoid the flames but probably jumping in with both feet...

The ? just explains file sizes and compressed v uncompressed formats.
Unfortunately this does not give the information asked for, bit depths. Or
is there something I am missing? I'm a bit confused by this as it would
seem to be desirable information to me.

Pete

--
http://www.petezilla.co.uk
 
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AAvK
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      10-24-2006

> Trying swiftly to avoid the flames but probably jumping in with both feet...


I don't blame you. I really should not go off that much, bad stuff.

> The ? just explains file sizes and compressed v uncompressed formats.
> Unfortunately this does not give the information asked for, bit depths. Or
> is there something I am missing? I'm a bit confused by this as it would
> seem to be desirable information to me.


Actually Mr. Ruf did give proper advice to read in dpreview, which
answered
my prvious question, that if a camera produces a raw file, it simply
will be 10
or 12 bit color depth.

The article also said that a raw is a 'single channel', not three as in
RGB, that is
confusing. But, makes for the deepest color that can be at the level
of 12 bits
right off the CCD, and a smaller file size.

> Pete
>
> --
> http://www.petezilla.co.uk


--
}<)))*> Giant_Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

 
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slin100@yahoo.com
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      10-24-2006
David J Taylor wrote:

> Many non-SLR cameras offer 12-bit raw, I don't believe that any SLR or
> non-SLR offer 14-bit - yet. Check D P Review for the features of
> particular cameras - I think you can make a personalised comparison page
> but don't ask me how!
>
> David


The Lecia DMR produces 16 bit/channel RAW files. How much of those 16
bits is usable, I don't know.

 
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Peter Chant
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      10-25-2006
AAvK wrote:


> Actually Mr. Ruf did give proper advice to read in dpreview, which
> answered
> my prvious question, that if a camera produces a raw file, it simply
> will be 10
> or 12 bit color depth.
>


The page I found by searching appears to be a general comment on raw files,
I suspect you cannot use it to make assumptions about certain cameras.

> The article also said that a raw is a 'single channel', not three as in
> RGB, that is
> confusing. But, makes for the deepest color that can be at the level
> of 12 bits
> right off the CCD, and a smaller file size.


Well, yes, as you have one sensor any a bayer colour mask. You must
interpolate to fill in the gaps for each colour to get RGB.

--
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David J Taylor
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      10-25-2006
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> David J Taylor wrote:
>
>> Many non-SLR cameras offer 12-bit raw, I don't believe that any SLR
>> or non-SLR offer 14-bit - yet. Check D P Review for the features of
>> particular cameras - I think you can make a personalised comparison
>> page but don't ask me how!
>>
>> David

>
> The Lecia DMR produces 16 bit/channel RAW files. How much of those 16
> bits is usable, I don't know.


Thanks for that. I couldn't find that camera listed at D P Review. Do
you happen to know how many bits the camera's ADC uses?

David


 
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Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!)
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      10-26-2006
On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:56:59 +0100, in rec.photo.digital Peter Chant
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote:
>
>
>> What's the "?" link for next to each line on the comparison page. god
>> helps those who help themselves. Of try a google search on dpreview
>> article raw. I'm not going to spoon feed you just because you're too lazy
>> to look around for yourself. This is basic info.

>
>Trying swiftly to avoid the flames but probably jumping in with both feet...
>
>The ? just explains file sizes and compressed v uncompressed formats.


ie http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/key=compression

>Unfortunately this does not give the information asked for, bit depths. Or
>is there something I am missing? I'm a bit confused by this as it would
>seem to be desirable information to me.


Look at the top of the page, see
Learn : Glossary : Digital Imaging : Compression
all links and think a bit. Click Digital Imaging in the progression and
what do you find? A table that directly leads one to:
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glos...ing/RAW_01.htm

Yes I was grumpy. But the OP also happened to push a few specific buttons
of mine in regard to posts we are getting from more and more visitors to
this forum. First to quote "Reason I ask is, it's a rather huge endevour
to search it out." No it's not and to pose as such implies one can't be
bothered with simple searches. "Laughing off" this suggestion implies even
worse, imo. Next, "Thanks, tried that but nothing gave any indication of
"actual" color bit depth... or is it that simply "raw" means it will be a
higher level, 12/36 no matter what?" So from my view the OP not only can't
be bothered doing simple searches, but also can't even be bothered even
giving us such minimal info as to what he's really looked at or tried
looking at.

Yes, I was dead, but I'm better now.

--
Ed Ruf ((E-Mail Removed))
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photog...ral/index.html
 
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AAvK
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      10-26-2006
Pete:
> >Unfortunately this does not give the information asked for, bit depths. Or
> >is there something I am missing? I'm a bit confused by this as it would
> >seem to be desirable information to me.


Mr. Ruf:
> Look at the top of the page, see
> Learn : Glossary : Digital Imaging : Compression
> all links and think a bit. Click Digital Imaging in the progression and
> what do you find? A table that directly leads one to:
> http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glos...ing/RAW_01.htm
>
> Yes I was grumpy. But the OP also happened to push a few specific buttons
> of mine in regard to posts we are getting from more and more visitors to
> this forum. First to quote "Reason I ask is, it's a rather huge endevour
> to search it out." No it's not and to pose as such implies one can't be
> bothered with simple searches. "Laughing off" this suggestion implies even
> worse, imo. Next, "Thanks, tried that but nothing gave any indication of
> "actual" color bit depth... or is it that simply "raw" means it will be a
> higher level, 12/36 no matter what?" So from my view the OP not only can't
> be bothered doing simple searches, but also can't even be bothered even
> giving us such minimal info as to what he's really looked at or tried
> looking at.
>
> Yes, I was dead, but I'm better now.
>
> --
> Ed Ruf ((E-Mail Removed))
> http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photog...ral/index.html



I hate to say it but that info is actually rather hard to find, even on
dpreview, and I have been searching the 'net since 1998. As well,
your advice does not genuinly provide the answer, neither do the
camera makers websites, so Pete's last paragraph makes sense more
than you do Mr. Ruf, your answer to that did not relate to it.

I saw the link you provided before you did in your latest reply, I
searched for it and read the whole page.**

What can be found is an extremely generalized text and images as
"the explaination of raw", isn't seemingly exacting, especially per
camera. No one really knows beyond that dpreview explaination
unless there is a knowledgeable fellow who is bro enough to
understand and reply kindly. Of course give the idea to Phil Askey,
anyone knows he will no doubt NOT update every listing of cameras
to that info as a huge load of work, and it's too late now.

The reason to ask such a question in public like this because searching

for such answeres per P/S camera is next to impossible considering
the complexities of such 'search terms' that would be required and the
time it would take to perform such a task. So what is it with you?
You could not be bothered to take such obvious ideas into
consideration,
and I don't need the negativity. Those are the things that pushed my
buttons from you.

However, it is now well understood that if a camera produces a genuine
raw file that right off the ccd, it will be 10 or 12 bit color depth as
a
single channel (not three rgb), as stated by dpreview. What else can
we about it besides that?

--
}<)))*> Giant_Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

 
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slin100@yahoo.com
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      10-26-2006

David J Taylor wrote:
> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
> > The Lecia DMR produces 16 bit/channel RAW files. How much of those 16
> > bits is usable, I don't know.

>
> Thanks for that. I couldn't find that camera listed at D P Review. Do
> you happen to know how many bits the camera's ADC uses?
>
> David


You can read about the DMR here:
http://www.leica-camera.us/photograp...gital-modul-r/

The DMR uses a Kodak KAF-10010 CCD image sensor. From the data sheet,
the sensor has a dynamic range of 67 dB. If I remember my signal
processing facts, that corresponds to a hair over 11 bits. The data
sheet is here:
http://www.kodak.com/ezpres/business...10LongSpec.pdf

BTW, the Lecia M8 uses a newer KAF-10050 sensor. It has a dynamic
range of 76 dB, almost 13 bits. The M8 is on dpreview:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/spec...a/leica_m8.asp

 
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John Turco
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      10-27-2006
AAvK wrote:

<heavily edited, for brevity>

> God helps those that ASK in FAITH to him. And that IS there, for those that
> accept him through CHRIST! You can prove it to yourself by clicking the link
> in my sig. It has a search engine, and many versions.
>
> I forgive you, I AM psychologically more powerful than you are, and you are
> not* plonked just so I can monitor you. Do not reply to me, anywhere.
>
> --
> }<)))*> Giant_Alex
> cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
> not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/



Hello, Alex:

Each of the words, "him," "his" and "he," should invariably be spelled
with a capital "H," whenever they refer to the Lord Almighty.


Cordially,
John Turco <(E-Mail Removed)>
 
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