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Can't rotate some Pentax DS images

 
 
Andy
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      09-14-2006
I have a Pentax istDS with 2.00 firmware. I used to only shot raw but
have recently used best quality JPG. Some JPG images that are shot
with the camera vertical cannot be rotated with Explorer in Windows XP
home. Other images on the same SD card can be rotated. If the non
rotatable image file is opened and saved to the same or different file
name it can be rotated by Explorer. The non rotatable images can also
be rotated in the camera and then they can be rotated by Explorer.

Error mesage is "You cannot rotate this image. The file might be in use
or open in another program, or the file or folder might be read only"

It appears that camera is sometimes creating image files that are
incompatible with windows explorer. I found a reference to this
problem at:

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...796cc089218d42

but there is no answer.

Has anyone in this group seen the problem and, if so, is there a known
cause or solution.

thanks

Andy

 
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AustinMN
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      09-14-2006
Andy wrote:
> I have a Pentax istDS with 2.00 firmware. I used to only shot raw but
> have recently used best quality JPG. Some JPG images that are shot
> with the camera vertical cannot be rotated with Explorer in Windows XP
> home. Other images on the same SD card can be rotated. If the non
> rotatable image file is opened and saved to the same or different file
> name it can be rotated by Explorer. The non rotatable images can also
> be rotated in the camera and then they can be rotated by Explorer.
>
> Error mesage is "You cannot rotate this image. The file might be in use
> or open in another program, or the file or folder might be read only"
>
> It appears that camera is sometimes creating image files that are
> incompatible with windows explorer.


I love how Windows can explain the actual problem and people insist
that something else is wrong.

The camera is never creating incompatible files. It's either you or
Windows that's making a mistake.

Windows may be confused. It thinks some program has the file open.
Either you really do have the file open (like the error message says)
or it missed the signal that said it was closed.

Close all of your programs (including the one that has the file open),
open Windows Explorer, and rotate the image. If it still doesn't
rotate, restart Windows and rotate the image. Now I don't expect you
to do this every time, I just want you to see that there is nothing
wrong with the image; the problem is either with you having the file
open or with Windows being confused.

Please don't blame the camera,
_this_problem_is_not_being_caused_by_the_camera.

Austin

 
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ASAAR
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      09-14-2006
On 14 Sep 2006 06:39:56 -0700, Andy wrote:

> I have a Pentax istDS with 2.00 firmware. I used to only shot raw but
> have recently used best quality JPG. Some JPG images that are shot
> with the camera vertical cannot be rotated with Explorer in Windows XP
> home. Other images on the same SD card can be rotated. If the non
> rotatable image file is opened and saved to the same or different file
> name it can be rotated by Explorer. The non rotatable images can also
> be rotated in the camera and then they can be rotated by Explorer.
>
> Error mesage is "You cannot rotate this image. The file might be in use
> or open in another program, or the file or folder might be read only"
>
> It appears that camera is sometimes creating image files that are
> incompatible with windows explorer. I found a reference to this
> problem at:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/micro...796cc089218d42
>
> but there is no answer.
>
> Has anyone in this group seen the problem and, if so, is there a known
> cause or solution.


I looked at the link you provided and somewhere in it I found a
mention of Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, so I tried opening and
viewing several JPG images using that program as well as my usual
IrfanView. IrfanView was able to show the images and rotate them
without producing any warnings. I also compared the files after
viewing and they were completely unchanged. Or I should say that
their CRC values before and after were identical. When I used
Windows Picture and Fax Viewer to display the same files I got an
immediate warning stating:

> Because of the dimensions of this picture, rotating it might
> permanently reduce its quality. Rotating a picture
> automatically saves it using the original name. To save a
> backup copy first, see 'Copy an image' in Help.
>
> Do you want to proceed?
> [ ] In the future do not show me this dialog box.
> [Yes] [No]


Sure enough, as soon as the picture was rotated, it was modified
on the disk drive. My guess is that whatever app. is being invoked
by Windows Explorer to display your JPG file is a little smarter
than the Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, in that it isn't guessing.
It knows that it will have to modify the file if it could proceed,
but may have been passed some kind of "R/O" flag by Explorer as a
precaution, so it gives you a misleading error message. BTW, I'm
not using Win XP Home as you are, but the MCE version instead, so
Windows Explorer, the Picture and Fax Viewer and any other included
viewing apps. may operate with some differences. If you download
and install Irfanview if you haven't already (it's a very small
program and it's free) and make it your default JPG viewer, it may
make for a convenient work-around, and it's probably a better,
quicker picture viewer than Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, assuming
that that's what is being invoked by Windows Explorer.

 
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AustinMN
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      09-14-2006

ASAAR wrote:
> On 14 Sep 2006 06:39:56 -0700, Andy wrote:


> I looked at the link you provided and somewhere in it I found a
> mention of Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, so I tried opening and
> viewing several JPG images using that program as well as my usual
> IrfanView. IrfanView was able to show the images and rotate them
> without producing any warnings.


It should have. There are specific sizes of JPG images that can be
rotated without doing a JPG decompression and recompression. (I
believe it's when both dimensions can be divided by 8, but I'm not sure
about that.) The decompression/recompression cycle causes a permanent
loss of picture information. Windows Picture and Fax Viewer can rotate
JPG images of appropriate dimensions with no
decompression/recompression, and therefore will give you a warning
before rotating one that it has to decompress and recompress.

> When I used
> Windows Picture and Fax Viewer to display the same files I got an
> immediate warning stating:
>
> > Because of the dimensions of this picture, rotating it might
> > permanently reduce its quality. Rotating a picture
> > automatically saves it using the original name. To save a
> > backup copy first, see 'Copy an image' in Help.
> >
> > Do you want to proceed?
> > [ ] In the future do not show me this dialog box.
> > [Yes] [No]


That's appropriate. Why IrfanView doesn't warn you I'm not sure - but
it should.

> Sure enough, as soon as the picture was rotated, it was modified
> on the disk drive. My guess is that whatever app. is being invoked
> by Windows Explorer to display your JPG file is a little smarter
> than the Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, in that it isn't guessing.


Windows Picture and Fax Viewer isn't guessing. Oh, and the app being
invoked by Windows Explorer is almost always Windows Picture and Fax
Viewer.

Austin

 
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Andy
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      09-15-2006
AustinMN wrote:


> I love how Windows can explain the actual problem and people insist
> that something else is wrong.


Your faith in the accuracy of Windows error messages is touching but
misplaced. This is not the first time I have used a computer and of
course I verified that the files were not read only and not in use by
another application.


> The camera is never creating incompatible files. It's either you or
> Windows that's making a mistake.


I stated "It appears that camera is sometimes creating image files that
are incompatible with windows explorer." I did not say the camera was
at fault or that Windows was at fault, just that some files created by
one are incompatible with the other.

Research of the Microsoft knowledge base showed several known
incompatibilities between Microsoft applications, including Picture and
Fax viewer, and EXIF 2.2 format JPEG files. Pentax DS uses EXIF 2.21.
The problems have been found since XP service pack 2.

The image files in question cannot be saved by Picture and Fax viewer
or by Paint but Photoshop Elements 3.0 and Pentax browser have not
difficulty with them. After a file has been opened and saved with
either of these applications it can be rotated by explorer and saved
with PandF viewer.

I have requested the MS patch and will report if it fixes the problem.


Andy

 
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Paul Mitchum
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      09-15-2006
Andy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> [..]


A variety of applications you might try using in order to losslessly
rotate jpeg files: <http://sylvana.net/jpegcrop/losslessapps.html>

All are based on the venerable jpegtran:
<http://sylvana.net/jpegcrop/jpegtran/>
 
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