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Re: Same Old Message out of White House..."Our" House is Holding Firm

 
 
hallerb@aol.com
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-28-2006

Bush is totally incompetent

Much of our troubles TODAY were created by his failed policies

One day we will find out he spends much of his days in a drunken
stupor

 
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arminius
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-28-2006

"AnAmericanCitizen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------
>
>

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...adlines-nation
>
> GOP Sends Mixed Messages on Immigration
> Candidates talk tough about enforcement, but the White House, in an effort

to lure
> Latino voters, says it's time to discuss reform.
> By Maura Reynolds
> Times Staff Writer
>
> August 27, 2006
>
> WASHINGTON - The Bush administration's announcement last week that

stepped-up
> enforcement appears to be slowing illegal immigration was designed to send

a message:
> The nation's borders are becoming more secure and it's time to talk about

broad
> immigration reform.
>
> That would appear to contradict the message coming from many Republicans

on the
> campaign trail: The border is dangerously porous and talk of reform is

premature.
>
> But it is less of a contradiction than meets the eye. While Republican

candidates are
> trying to hang on to their congressional majority by trumpeting the need

for border
> security, the White House is laying the groundwork for a longer battle

over
> immigration with an eye on capturing the Latino vote.
>
> Republican Party leaders have the task of balancing the party's

conflicting
> short-term and long-term goals on immigration.
>
> In the short term, many if not most congressional Republicans are taking a

hard-line
> approach. In some districts, that means denouncing proposals for a guest

worker
> program or legalization of some immigrants as amnesty.
>
> "What you are seeing on the House side is uniform agreement on 'border

security
> first,' " said Carl Forti, spokesman for the National Republican

Congressional
> Committee. "Where they go beyond that is up to the individual.. This is

district by
> district. Each race is local."
>
> But strategists at the Republican National Committee and in the White

House are
> concerned that some of the tough rhetoric could give voters the impression

that
> Republicans are anti-immigrant. And that's a long-term danger for the

party, because
> its leaders are convinced that Latino voters are the key to turning the

GOP into the
> country's dominant party.
>
> "You always have self-serving politicians who are focused on one thing -

getting
> elected or reelected - and they put rhetoric ahead of what's good for the

country,"
> said Allen Weh, chairman of the Republican Party of New Mexico, where the

GOP has
> been battling to increase party registration.
>
> "We're going to have some collateral damage from this rhetoric, no doubt

about it,"
> Weh said.
>
> As a voter group, Latinos hold tremendous appeal for Republicans. First

and foremost,
> they are the fastest-growing segment of the population.
>
> Republicans also believe that despite Latinos' traditional loyalty to the

Democratic
> Party, they have a chance to make significant inroads by emphasizing

issues other
> than identity politics.
>
> For instance, party leaders think the Republicans' socially conservative

positions on
> issues such as abortion and gay marriage will resonate with Latino

Catholics, as well
> as with the swelling number of evangelical Protestants. Messages such as
> self-reliance and low taxes can be made to appeal to the many Latinos who

are
> small-business owners.
>
> On immigration, the party is essentially trying to send two messages at

once.
>
> "We are a nation of immigrants, and we are a nation of laws," Republican

National
> Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman said this summer in a speech to a

conference of Latino
> officials. "We must forge a new way, a solution that recognizes these two

essential
> concepts."
>
> Whether a double-barreled message will resonate with voters remains to be

seen. But
> many House Republicans aren't willing to take chances on a long-term

strategy at the
> expense of losing control of Congress in the short term.
>
> "We have to solve our short-term problem before we solve our long-term

problem," said
> a senior Republican leadership aide, who would discuss internal party

strategy only
> on condition of anonymity.
>
> House Republicans are using their summer recess to hold a series of events

around the
> country designed to drum up support for their "enforcement first" approach

to
> immigration.
>
> That was the central idea behind a Republican-written bill, passed last

year, that
> raised illegal border crossing from a misdemeanor to a felony. That

proposal sparked
> nationwide street protests by Latinos, who carried signs saying, "We Are

Not
> Criminals."
>
> Democrats who are working to prevent Republican gains among Latinos say

that the
> administration's attempt to send two messages at once caught up with them

last
> spring.
>
> Joe Garcia, who works on Latino issues for the New Democrat Network, said

that before
> the street protests the administration had been courting Latino voters

while
> simultaneously encouraging right-wing radio hosts to beat the drums over

border
> security, raising fears of terrorists and foreigners flooding into the

country from
> Mexico.
>
> "This is an issue that plays to the xenophobic base," Garcia said. "For a

long time,
> [the president] was able to conduct two separate campaigns. The problem is

that the
> two of them met."
>
> It's conventional wisdom in Washington that little is expected to happen

on
> immigration legislation before the election in November, which allows

candidates
> maximum leeway to run against whatever version of immigration reform works

best in
> their districts.
>
> But some GOP House leaders are weighing whether it would help candidates

if they were
> to pass a modified immigration reform proposal before the election. Under

discussion
> is a two-stage bill: first, border security, and second, some form of

guest worker
> program "triggered" by certification of improvements in border security.
>
> "We can do it in phases," the House Republican aide said, noting the goal

would be to
> act before the election. "I wouldn't rule that out."
>
> Garcia said too much damage had been done to the Republican Party's image

among
> Latinos. A poll conducted recently for his group showed that support for

the
> president and the GOP had fallen dramatically since the 2004 election.
>
> "How do you call a certain group 'criminals' and then turn around and

offer an olive
> branch?" Garcia said.
>
> However the congressional election turns out, the long-term strategists

are unlikely
> to give up on their goal of sending more Republican Party membership cards

to
> Latinos.
>
> And toward that end, they hope to move the discussion, at least

incrementally, toward
> the next stage: Now that the borders are tight, what is to be done about

the millions
> already here?
>
> "I don't expect every Hispanic to wake up tomorrow and suddenly realize he

is a
> Republican," Mehlman said in his speech this summer. "But I do hope we can

come
> together as a nation to talk about immigration - without the angry

rhetoric."
>
>
> Do you want a Mexican way of life or an American way of life? That
> isn't a dumbass liberal vs conservative question, it's a critical
> question of what quality of life you and your children will have for
> themselves. You want the kind that half the population of Mexico is
> running to the border to get away from? That is what you'll get.
> ....Hoy Paloy


The White House affirms:

"Democracy is like an old ugly whore who must drop her drawers faster and
faster for less and less."

Hank


 
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F. H.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-28-2006
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Bush is totally incompetent
>
> Much of our troubles TODAY were created by his failed policies


"HIS" failed policy's? Maybe his incompetence and a lifetime around
right wing ideologues made him the perfect puppet. Who was in charge
during 9/11? Matter of record that Cheney was giving orders to Bush.
Who accompanied Bush to the 9/11 hearings to make sure he didn't screw
up his testimony? And *they* insisted on testifying in private, without
being place under oath.

Who Bush serves is a good question. Clearly its not the American people
(9/11, Katrina, deficit, idiotic war) or the "Its just a God damned
piece of paper" Constitution he swore to uphold.

 
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Hell_Toupee
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-28-2006
How can you blame Bush for 9/11 and an inherited recession? Not that I'm
blaming Clinton for the recession, because it's all of us not listening to
Greenspan. But Clinton DID get the security agencies to not share
information. That was in the 9/11 report.




"F. H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:QyDIg.1432$4O4.787@trnddc02...
> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> Bush is totally incompetent
>>
>> Much of our troubles TODAY were created by his failed policies

>
> "HIS" failed policy's? Maybe his incompetence and a lifetime around right
> wing ideologues made him the perfect puppet. Who was in charge during
> 9/11? Matter of record that Cheney was giving orders to Bush. Who
> accompanied Bush to the 9/11 hearings to make sure he didn't screw up his
> testimony? And *they* insisted on testifying in private, without being
> place under oath.
>
> Who Bush serves is a good question. Clearly its not the American people
> (9/11, Katrina, deficit, idiotic war) or the "Its just a God damned piece
> of paper" Constitution he swore to uphold.
>



 
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Dean G.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-28-2006

Hell_Toupee wrote:
> How can you blame Bush for 9/11 and an inherited recession? Not that I'm
> blaming Clinton for the recession, because it's all of us not listening to
> Greenspan. But Clinton DID get the security agencies to not share
> information. That was in the 9/11 report.
>


Also noted was the fact that while Clinton held almost weekly meetings
with his anti-terrorism task force, Bush's taks force, headed by Dick
Cheney had their first meeting on September 4, 2001, more than eight
months after the start of Bush's administration. He also stopped the
Predator surveillance of bin Laden in the spring of 2001.

On Sept. 10, Diane Feinstein, a member of the Senate Intelligence
Committee
briefed on July 5th, asked Dick Cheney's chief of staff Scooter Libby
when
the administration would start focusing on these terror threats which
had
so pre-occupied CIA's Tenet, the most severe in decades - she was told
it
would have to wait another six months.

If you close your eyes long enough, your enemies will take advantage of
it. Bush and the Christian Right were more concerned with fighting
pornography and medical marijuana than they ever were about terrorism
until 9/11. After 9/11, they did start to focus on terrorism, but after
such an event, anyone would have. Hindsight, as they say, is 20/20.

As for the recession, there was a tech bubble, and the effects would
have been shorter and lighter if 9/11 hadn't occured. The current
situation wouldn't be as bad if we were not engaged in a pointless war
in Iraq, completely unrelated to 9/11. Oil prices would be lower, and
we would be saving more than $100 billion per year. Add to this a
record of deficit spending that has set new records, a feat which will
have an impact on inflation and interest rates for years to come, and
you have to give some of the "credit" to George W. Bush.

But you're obviously a Republican, so despite Republican control of all
three branches of the government, it must all be Clinton's or the
Democrat's fault. It must be, because despite their shrill rhetoric
about personal responsibility, Republicans are going to try to dodge
responsibility for their actions, much like their leadership dodged
Veitnam, all while they loudly supported the Veitnam War. Do I sense a
pattern here ?

How can I blame Bush ? It is very easy. I hold a person responsible for
their actions, or lack thereof. Of course, Republican's still can't
understand how anyone could hold Ken Lay responsible for Enron. He was
only the CEO. Obviously people in charge get credit for the possitive
things, but we can't expect them to take resposibility for their
errors, can we ? YES, We can, and I do. Bush is the President, many of
the decisions were his, or at least signed off by him. He gets the
credit and the responsibility.

Dean G.

 
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Hell_Toupee
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-05-2006
You've guessed wrong, sir. I am a Libertarian. I hope you don't work as a
circus hustler trying to guess a persons' weight!


"Dean G." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ps.com...
>
> Hell_Toupee wrote:
>> How can you blame Bush for 9/11 and an inherited recession? Not that I'm
>> blaming Clinton for the recession, because it's all of us not listening
>> to
>> Greenspan. But Clinton DID get the security agencies to not share
>> information. That was in the 9/11 report.
>>

>
> Also noted was the fact that while Clinton held almost weekly meetings
> with his anti-terrorism task force, Bush's taks force, headed by Dick
> Cheney had their first meeting on September 4, 2001, more than eight
> months after the start of Bush's administration. He also stopped the
> Predator surveillance of bin Laden in the spring of 2001.
>
> On Sept. 10, Diane Feinstein, a member of the Senate Intelligence
> Committee
> briefed on July 5th, asked Dick Cheney's chief of staff Scooter Libby
> when
> the administration would start focusing on these terror threats which
> had
> so pre-occupied CIA's Tenet, the most severe in decades - she was told
> it
> would have to wait another six months.
>
> If you close your eyes long enough, your enemies will take advantage of
> it. Bush and the Christian Right were more concerned with fighting
> pornography and medical marijuana than they ever were about terrorism
> until 9/11. After 9/11, they did start to focus on terrorism, but after
> such an event, anyone would have. Hindsight, as they say, is 20/20.
>
> As for the recession, there was a tech bubble, and the effects would
> have been shorter and lighter if 9/11 hadn't occured. The current
> situation wouldn't be as bad if we were not engaged in a pointless war
> in Iraq, completely unrelated to 9/11. Oil prices would be lower, and
> we would be saving more than $100 billion per year. Add to this a
> record of deficit spending that has set new records, a feat which will
> have an impact on inflation and interest rates for years to come, and
> you have to give some of the "credit" to George W. Bush.
>
> But you're obviously a Republican, so despite Republican control of all
> three branches of the government, it must all be Clinton's or the
> Democrat's fault. It must be, because despite their shrill rhetoric
> about personal responsibility, Republicans are going to try to dodge
> responsibility for their actions, much like their leadership dodged
> Veitnam, all while they loudly supported the Veitnam War. Do I sense a
> pattern here ?
>
> How can I blame Bush ? It is very easy. I hold a person responsible for
> their actions, or lack thereof. Of course, Republican's still can't
> understand how anyone could hold Ken Lay responsible for Enron. He was
> only the CEO. Obviously people in charge get credit for the possitive
> things, but we can't expect them to take resposibility for their
> errors, can we ? YES, We can, and I do. Bush is the President, many of
> the decisions were his, or at least signed off by him. He gets the
> credit and the responsibility.
>
> Dean G.
>



 
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Blair P. Houghton
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2006
Hell_Toupee <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>You've guessed wrong, sir. I am a Libertarian. I hope you don't work as a
>circus hustler trying to guess a persons' weight!


You do know that Libertarians are just Republicans who
have admitted they're going to hell, right?

--Blair
 
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z
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2006

Hell_Toupee wrote:
> How can you blame Bush for 9/11 and an inherited recession? Not that I'm
> blaming Clinton for the recession, because it's all of us not listening to
> Greenspan. But Clinton DID get the security agencies to not share
> information. That was in the 9/11 report.


The outgoing Clinton administration and the holdovers sure did share
the information about al Qaeda with the incoming Bush administration,
though. That was in the report too.

 
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Dave Smith
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2006
z wrote:

> Hell_Toupee wrote:
> > How can you blame Bush for 9/11 and an inherited recession? Not that I'm
> > blaming Clinton for the recession, because it's all of us not listening to
> > Greenspan. But Clinton DID get the security agencies to not share
> > information. That was in the 9/11 report.

>
> The outgoing Clinton administration and the holdovers sure did share
> the information about al Qaeda with the incoming Bush administration,
> though. That was in the report too.


From the books I have read on the topic it seems that a lot of ex White House
staffers, some of home had worked with several previous administrations, not
just partisan appointees out to screw Bush the lesser, claim that al Queada was
a major concern but could not convince the Shrub. He had a thing about Iraq and
insisted that they dig up the dirt on Saddam. He ended up surrounding himself
with yes men who made up the dirt that he wanted. Then when he was embarrassed
about the inability to find WMDs in Iraq he blamed it on stale intelligence.

 
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Sev
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-06-2006

I agree with most of what's been said- Bush came in ignoring terrorism
(those stupid Clinton people had to be ignored), focused on the foolish
tax cut and also foolish missile defense.
Don't know why we're talking politics on this group, though the
level of discussion on most dedicated groups is pretty awful from what
I've seen. I am a partisan lib/ dem, but still like discussions to be
civil and honest. Clinton did have his failings in foreign policy-
mostly it didn't interest him much, and he was understandibly wary of
involvements after Somalia. Thus he did nothing about Rwanda- and
didn't want to get involved in Yugoslavia, either. The Europeans could
have taken more initiative there, and I think Clinton was _partially_
reluctant for fear he'd then be charged with racial disparity after
doing nothing over Rwanda. Gore pushed him to get involved- one reason
I think he would have made a pretty good President besides his interest
in re-inventing government eg getting various levels to talk to each
other eg those FBI memos which might have prevented 9/11.
Clinton did wake up to al Quaeda after embassy and Cole bombings,
but by then was embroiled in Lewinsky mess and feared he'd be accused
of 'wag the dog' diversion if he acted too strenuously- thus the
cruise missile strikes were his only response.
The tech boom was undoubtedly responsible for part of the surplus,
but Clinton did manage finances pretty responsibly, and deserves credit
for it. Were people really so overtaxed in those years? I think the
federal tax cuts are resulting in a shifting of burdens to state/ local
levels, and the middle class taxpayers, meaning most of us. Not to
mention the shear recklessness of the debt, which will haunt us for
many, many years.

 
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