Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > Digital Photography > 2200 printing tip

Reply
Thread Tools

2200 printing tip

 
 
bjaynes@montanaport.net
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-23-2006
Hi,
I'm new to printing with an Epson 2200. Have been at it a couple of
days. I like rich saturation and full contrast. If I use Photo Enhance
with Vivid and Sharp, the look is generally what I want. However, the
print window doesn't allow for color adjustment without switching out
of Photo Enhance. So, I worked in Color Controls some since I'm used to
those from doing C-Prints. However, prints have a decided weak look
there. Was using the Epson Vivid Color and 1.8 gamma there. Could it
be I just need to turn up the saturation and contrast in tests?
Thanks,
Bill

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
MarkČ
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-23-2006
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm new to printing with an Epson 2200. Have been at it a couple of
> days. I like rich saturation and full contrast. If I use Photo Enhance
> with Vivid and Sharp, the look is generally what I want. However, the
> print window doesn't allow for color adjustment without switching out
> of Photo Enhance. So, I worked in Color Controls some since I'm used
> to those from doing C-Prints. However, prints have a decided weak look
> there. Was using the Epson Vivid Color and 1.8 gamma there. Could it
> be I just need to turn up the saturation and contrast in tests?
> Thanks,
> Bill


If you're printing from Photoshop, you should completely by-pass Epson's
color controls and let Photoshop handle color management and color profiles.
Otherwise, you're at the mercy of Epson's automatic renditions of your work.

--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by MarkČ at:
www.pbase.com/markuson


 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
frederick
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-23-2006
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm new to printing with an Epson 2200. Have been at it a couple of
> days. I like rich saturation and full contrast. If I use Photo Enhance
> with Vivid and Sharp, the look is generally what I want. However, the
> print window doesn't allow for color adjustment without switching out
> of Photo Enhance. So, I worked in Color Controls some since I'm used to
> those from doing C-Prints. However, prints have a decided weak look
> there. Was using the Epson Vivid Color and 1.8 gamma there. Could it
> be I just need to turn up the saturation and contrast in tests?
> Thanks,
> Bill
>

AFAIK (and it is not a simple subject):

If you are using the photo enhance setting, then I suspect gamma
selected should be 2.2 - not 1.8, and that may be why your prints look
weak and desaturated.
Make sure your monitor is calibrated correctly. Just my opinion, but
you have some chance of getting the monitor profile right using only
software calibration if you are using a higher end CRT (you can buy
second-hand trintron/diamondtron/viewsonic P series aperture grill
monitors for next to nothing now), but might be fighting a losing battle
with even high end LCDs without hardware calibration.

If you don't want to go down the colour-managed route, then try printing
with utilities from Epson rather than trying to adjust things manually
via the printer driver settings and printing from a non colour-aware
application. Epson Easy Photo Print and Darkroom Print ship with the
R1800 (which I use) and do a reasonable job - IMO much better than
trying to tweak settings when printing from an application which is not
colour-aware.

The best option is to have a fully colour managed workflow. That way,
then using a colour-aware photo editor (ie Photoshop) you can edit your
images - adjust contrast etc - with some certainty that what you see in
the editing screen is what you will get out of the printer (but only if
your monitor is calibrated).

Assuming that you have photoshop then:
Select ICM Off in the _printer_ driver
Open the image in PS
Allow PS to convert an image that may have been created in another
colour space (usually SRGB) to Adobe RGB, or assign Adobe RGB colour
space if prompted that the image doesn't have an embedded colour space
defined.
Adjust colour/contrast etc to how you want it in PS.
Print using "print with preview", select "show more options", select the
paper you are printing on, intent "relative colometric, Black Point
Compensation selected.
If you also have "print preview" selected in the printer driver, then
you will probably see that the colours are "wrong" in that screen, as
the colours that photoshop (or Qimage or other colour aware application)
send (without ICM enabled) to the printer are adjusted using the ICC
profile to correct the colour for the paper that you selected - so
"wrong" is right.

 
Reply With Quote
 
Roy G
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-23-2006
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> Hi,
> I'm new to printing with an Epson 2200. Have been at it a couple of
> days. I like rich saturation and full contrast. If I use Photo Enhance
> with Vivid and Sharp, the look is generally what I want. However, the
> print window doesn't allow for color adjustment without switching out
> of Photo Enhance. So, I worked in Color Controls some since I'm used to
> those from doing C-Prints. However, prints have a decided weak look
> there. Was using the Epson Vivid Color and 1.8 gamma there. Could it
> be I just need to turn up the saturation and contrast in tests?
> Thanks,
> Bill



Hi.

What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.

To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.

Messing about with the variables within the Epson Driver, will only waste
considerable amounts of Paper and Ink. I know, because I tried that way,
even making test strips just like in the darkroom.

Eventually I gave up and bought a printer which had ICC profiles available
for it, so that I could switch to Colour Management. I now pretty well
always get what I want First Print.

It is not easy, but it is not rocket science either. If you could control
colour in Wet Printing, then you are capable of doing it digitally.

Make sure your Editing Program is capable of C.M. and read up on it in the
Help Files. If your program is not CM capable, then get one which is.

Have a read at www.digital-darkroom.com where there are plenty of articles,
and sample workflows.

Once you get the hang of it, then your problems will be solved.

Roy G


 
Reply With Quote
 
John McWilliams
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-23-2006
Roy G wrote:
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
>> Hi,
>> I'm new to printing with an Epson 2200. Have been at it a couple of
>> days. I like rich saturation and full contrast. If I use Photo Enhance
>> with Vivid and Sharp, the look is generally what I want. However, the
>> print window doesn't allow for color adjustment without switching out
>> of Photo Enhance. So, I worked in Color Controls some since I'm used to
>> those from doing C-Prints. However, prints have a decided weak look
>> there. Was using the Epson Vivid Color and 1.8 gamma there. Could it
>> be I just need to turn up the saturation and contrast in tests?
>> Thanks,
>> Bill

>
>
> Hi.
>
> What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.
>
> To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.
>
> Messing about with the variables within the Epson Driver, will only waste
> considerable amounts of Paper and Ink. I know, because I tried that way,
> even making test strips just like in the darkroom.
>
> Eventually I gave up and bought a printer which had ICC profiles available
> for it, so that I could switch to Colour Management. I now pretty well
> always get what I want First Print.
>
> It is not easy, but it is not rocket science either. If you could control
> colour in Wet Printing, then you are capable of doing it digitally.
>
> Make sure your Editing Program is capable of C.M. and read up on it in the
> Help Files. If your program is not CM capable, then get one which is.
>
> Have a read at www.digital-darkroom.com where there are plenty of articles,
> and sample workflows.
>
> Once you get the hang of it, then your problems will be solved.
>


Also, Russell Brown has a series of online tutorials for printing with
the 2200. russellbrown.com, IIRC. Also recall they're for Mac, but they
still might be helpful.

--
John McWilliams
 
Reply With Quote
 
Raphael Bustin
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-24-2006
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:08:53 GMT, "Roy G"

>What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.
>
>To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.



Possibly, but for that you need a printer profile. Newer Epsons
have free (and very good) ICC profiles (for Epson media, of
course,) but that may not be the case for the 2200 -- at least
not profiles from Epson proper.

It's a bit of a bear making good printer profiles at home.
So in the OP's case, going to a color managed profile
most likely means having a printer profile made.

Figure about $40-50 per. Google on "Cathy's
Profiles" and/or Dry Creek Photo (for starters.)

If the OP is courageous, look up Profile Prism -- the best
of the cheap (flatbed scanner based) printer-profiling
packages.


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com

 
Reply With Quote
 
frederick
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-24-2006
Raphael Bustin wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:08:53 GMT, "Roy G"
>
>> What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.
>>
>> To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.

>
>
> Possibly, but for that you need a printer profile. Newer Epsons
> have free (and very good) ICC profiles (for Epson media, of
> course,) but that may not be the case for the 2200 -- at least
> not profiles from Epson proper.
>
> It's a bit of a bear making good printer profiles at home.
> So in the OP's case, going to a color managed profile
> most likely means having a printer profile made.
>
> Figure about $40-50 per. Google on "Cathy's
> Profiles" and/or Dry Creek Photo (for starters.)
>
> If the OP is courageous, look up Profile Prism -- the best
> of the cheap (flatbed scanner based) printer-profiling
> packages.
>
>

Overkill.
The OP was most probably printing from windows using Gamma 1.8, and ICM.
It is a big enough leap to go to a colour managed workflow from there.
Sorting out monitor profile and getting reasonable prints using ICM
would be a start. For all we know, the OP might not even have ICC
colour-aware software to work with.
The canned profiles that ship with the R2200 will be fine. Profiles for
most good quality 3rd party papers for the 2200 will probably be fine too.
 
Reply With Quote
 
Raphael Bustin
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-24-2006
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:12:30 +1200, frederick <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Raphael Bustin wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:08:53 GMT, "Roy G"
>>
>>> What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.
>>>
>>> To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.

>>
>>
>> Possibly, but for that you need a printer profile. Newer Epsons
>> have free (and very good) ICC profiles (for Epson media, of
>> course,) but that may not be the case for the 2200 -- at least
>> not profiles from Epson proper.
>>
>> It's a bit of a bear making good printer profiles at home.
>> So in the OP's case, going to a color managed profile
>> most likely means having a printer profile made.
>>
>> Figure about $40-50 per. Google on "Cathy's
>> Profiles" and/or Dry Creek Photo (for starters.)
>>
>> If the OP is courageous, look up Profile Prism -- the best
>> of the cheap (flatbed scanner based) printer-profiling
>> packages.
>>
>>

>Overkill.
>The OP was most probably printing from windows using Gamma 1.8, and ICM.
>It is a big enough leap to go to a colour managed workflow from there.
>Sorting out monitor profile and getting reasonable prints using ICM
>would be a start. For all we know, the OP might not even have ICC
>colour-aware software to work with.
>The canned profiles that ship with the R2200 will be fine. Profiles for
>most good quality 3rd party papers for the 2200 will probably be fine too.



I'll follow up with specific points -- these don't necessarily
contradict yours but you appear to be confusing several
issues.

1. I don't claim that an ICC color-managed workflow is
necessary for great prints. It helps but it's not an
absolute necessity if you're smart and careful --
and consistent in your paper/ink choices.

2. If you *are* going to use an ICC color-managed
workflow, you *must* have a real ICC profile for the
printer, unless you restrict yourself to using the
sRGB working space in your image editor. And
of course you must have a calibrated and profiled
monitor (at least using, say, Adobe Gamma or
equivalent, but better with a Spyder or Eye-1.)

3. The Epson 2200 was sold before Epson started
providing their own ICC profiles for their printers.
The "canned" profiles aren't in that league.
You *may* be able to find real ICC profiles for the
2200 from other sources (eg., Red River, et. al.)

4. Gamma 1.8 is stupid. It was a mistake on Mac
systems (a quirk of history,) and in reality, never
made sense for CRT monitors. If you're working
in a color-managed system, gamma is implicit in
your choice of working space.

5. Windows "ICM" is really irrelevant in all of this.
It's a stupid layer *on top of* the ICC workflow that
has almost no added value and is best ignored.


rafe b
www.terrapinphoto.com
 
Reply With Quote
 
frederick
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-24-2006
Raphael Bustin wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:12:30 +1200, frederick <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Raphael Bustin wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:08:53 GMT, "Roy G"
>>>
>>>> What you really want is for the Print to match what you see on the Screen.
>>>>
>>>> To achieve this ideal, you need to use a Colour Managed workflow.
>>>
>>> Possibly, but for that you need a printer profile. Newer Epsons
>>> have free (and very good) ICC profiles (for Epson media, of
>>> course,) but that may not be the case for the 2200 -- at least
>>> not profiles from Epson proper.
>>>
>>> It's a bit of a bear making good printer profiles at home.
>>> So in the OP's case, going to a color managed profile
>>> most likely means having a printer profile made.
>>>
>>> Figure about $40-50 per. Google on "Cathy's
>>> Profiles" and/or Dry Creek Photo (for starters.)
>>>
>>> If the OP is courageous, look up Profile Prism -- the best
>>> of the cheap (flatbed scanner based) printer-profiling
>>> packages.
>>>
>>>

>> Overkill.
>> The OP was most probably printing from windows using Gamma 1.8, and ICM.
>> It is a big enough leap to go to a colour managed workflow from there.
>> Sorting out monitor profile and getting reasonable prints using ICM
>> would be a start. For all we know, the OP might not even have ICC
>> colour-aware software to work with.
>> The canned profiles that ship with the R2200 will be fine. Profiles for
>> most good quality 3rd party papers for the 2200 will probably be fine too.

>
>
> I'll follow up with specific points -- these don't necessarily
> contradict yours but you appear to be confusing several
> issues.
>
> 1. I don't claim that an ICC color-managed workflow is
> necessary for great prints. It helps but it's not an
> absolute necessity if you're smart and careful --
> and consistent in your paper/ink choices.
>
> 2. If you *are* going to use an ICC color-managed
> workflow, you *must* have a real ICC profile for the
> printer, unless you restrict yourself to using the
> sRGB working space in your image editor. And
> of course you must have a calibrated and profiled
> monitor (at least using, say, Adobe Gamma or
> equivalent, but better with a Spyder or Eye-1.)
>
> 3. The Epson 2200 was sold before Epson started
> providing their own ICC profiles for their printers.
> The "canned" profiles aren't in that league.
> You *may* be able to find real ICC profiles for the
> 2200 from other sources (eg., Red River, et. al.)


Epson's own profiles for the commonly used range of Epson papers are here:
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/E...s&oid=42114986
I haven't checked, but expect that good profiles will be available from
Ilford and other quality paper suppliers. The 2200 was only "replaced"
by the 2400 about 12 months ago. My assumption that they may have
"shipped with" the printer may be incorrect...
>
> 4. Gamma 1.8 is stupid. It was a mistake on Mac
> systems (a quirk of history,) and in reality, never
> made sense for CRT monitors. If you're working
> in a color-managed system, gamma is implicit in
> your choice of working space.
>
> 5. Windows "ICM" is really irrelevant in all of this.
> It's a stupid layer *on top of* the ICC workflow that
> has almost no added value and is best ignored.


Except ICM colour management *must* be disabled in the printer driver if
you are using profiles (unless you like very strange prints).
>
> rafe b
> www.terrapinphoto.com

 
Reply With Quote
 
Roy G
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-24-2006
"frederick" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:1156396725.90177@ftpsrv1...
> Raphael Bustin wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:12:30 +1200, frederick <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>

>

Hi.

I do not wish to disagree with either of you.

I did say that I changed my printer, in order to get one for which Epson
produced Profiles, and I did mean Media Specific Profiles, not just the
general purpose (Generic) profile, which was the only one available for my
Epson 700.

Although the 2200 Printer Driver only has the Generic profile, Epson do
supply the Media Specific Profiles for it, as a download, so the OP will
have no problems getting them, and using them in a C.M. workflow.

What you say is correct.

Good Custom made ICC profiles will be better than those "Canned Profiles"
supplied by Epson, but for most people the Epson Media Specific Profiles
will give very good results.

There will always be Printers, which have been built to the extremes of
tolerances, for which these "averaged" profiles will not be quite accurate
enough, and they would need Custom Profiles.

Provided he takes care, he should be able to get his Monitor set up
accurately enough, (if it is a CRT), without having to purchase an Eye One
type device.

I know that I am not alone in being able to produce accurate colours, with
C.M., just using Adobe Gamma for the monitor, and without having had Custom
Profiles made.

Roy G


 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
David Mark's Javascript Tip Du Jour - Volume #1 - Tip #1234 - How toMeasure Element Dimensions David Mark Javascript 58 12-06-2011 10:13 PM
David Mark's Javascript Tip of the Day - Volume #1 - #Tip 14-C David Mark Javascript 16 11-11-2011 02:45 AM
Help !!! Epson Stylus 2200 Printing Problems Brian Corll Digital Photography 4 05-07-2004 10:57 PM
Epson 2200 B/W Printing Helen Bridge Digital Photography 2 12-05-2003 09:42 PM
Epson 2200 printing with purple cast Jay Stalman Digital Photography 1 10-19-2003 06:37 PM



Advertisments