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Unemployeed

 
 
tommylee
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      08-13-2003

I have been out of the job for 5 months now. I can't believe things can
be this bad. I wonder is it posible that a good and experience
programmer be unemployed more than a year ? Have you seen or know any
cases like that ?

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Kline Sphere
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      08-13-2003
>I have been out of the job for 5 months now. I can't believe things can
>be this bad. I wonder is it posible that a good and experience
>programmer be unemployed more than a year ? Have you seen or know any
>cases like that ?


This is nothing like as bad as it was in the early 90's when just
about all business sectors were affected.

In 1991 we had over 1,000 applications for one graduate position,
which was only advertised within the state university system.

After a company 'down sized', a friend of mine was out of work for 18
months for mid 1990. I remember him telling me he applied for one
position in New York (hundreds of miles from where he lived). They
replied back saying they had over 4,000 applications. He was a top
notch software engineer who made the mistake of getting into
management five years before.

BTW, I've not seen a 'programmer' role being advertised for more than
ten years. If all you can do is 'program' then I agree things will be
tough for you.

Good luck.
 
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emg
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      08-13-2003
Yes, I know of good people that were unemployed for a year or more. We
recently hired one. I'm working with this guy now and he's good. And no,
he's not just a "coder". He does the full life-cycle from analysis to
implementation.

I honestly don't know what to tell you. I'd say that here in Detroit things
are as bad as they've ever been. And I've been in the field since 1979.

First, don't take it personally. It's not just you. Second, please don't
give up. I realize it's easy to say that but once you give up, it's certain
you won't get a job. Third, don't restrict yourself to just "programmer"
jobs. Look at any job that's related to your past experience and make your
best pitch to get hired. At this point, I think it's better to be working in
a non-developer job than waiting for IT to recover. If things do get better
you can adjust accordingly.

Best of Luck!



"tommylee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> I have been out of the job for 5 months now. I can't believe things can
> be this bad. I wonder is it posible that a good and experience
> programmer be unemployed more than a year ? Have you seen or know any
> cases like that ?
>
> --
> Posted via http://dbforums.com



 
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JJG
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      08-13-2003
Are you just looking 'local' jobs?
I have been actively job hunting (10-12 months) in LA,
NY Atlanta, Texas and maybe Phoenix. . haven't received
any offer yet, not even a bad one, though, had 8-10
interviews for very good companies and at least in half of
those I was very close to get an offer.
Luckily for me, I currently have a good job. My hat to
you, this is a very difficult, frustrating, hopeless task
if you are unemployed. My advice to you is: if can't
find a job where you live, it's time for you to broaden
your search to other cities. Besides those jobs been
outsourced outside our borders, some jobs are moving or
centralizing-consolidating to headquarters, most of them
in metro cities. I know it's hard to relocate at your own
expense but the competition is cut-throat out there. Tell
the employers that you are willing to pay your own
relocation. The best of luck to you, there's still hope,
just don't give up.
Jaime



>-----Original Message-----
>
>I have been out of the job for 5 months now. I can't

believe things can
>be this bad. I wonder is it posible that a good and

experience
>programmer be unemployed more than a year ? Have you seen

or know any
>cases like that ?
>
>--
>Posted via http://dbforums.com
>.
>

 
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John S
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      08-14-2003
Considered a change of career to something more suitable?

"tommylee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> I have been out of the job for 5 months now. I can't believe things can
> be this bad. I wonder is it posible that a good and experience
> programmer be unemployed more than a year ? Have you seen or know any
> cases like that ?
>
> --
> Posted via http://dbforums.com



 
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JJG
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      08-14-2003
May I ask what city of Texas?
I'd receive some jobs opportunities in Phoenix. Not that
far from Texas, but you'll certainly need to relocate.
Also, Sharepoint and CMS (Content...) are pretty hot now,
try to learn those technologies,. They are not that
difficult to learn if you're already an ASP, ASP.NET guy.
You can even ask a company that may need those solutions
and work for free so you can put it on your resume as
professional experience. Sound abit outrageous and hard on
your ego but it beat been at home.
Bye

>-----Original Message-----
>
>Thanks for all the great advices.
>I live in Texas, and the IT job market in the city that I

live in is
>dead, totally dead. I can't event get an interview in the

past 4
>months. Going to an interview in another city on my own

expense is also
>a problem.
>
>--
>Posted via http://dbforums.com
>.
>

 
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tommylee
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      08-14-2003

I live in Houston, Texas. Where a lot of big companies just put a bunch
of super-programmers on the street (you probably have heard about those
news). I don't know if you noticed this, but most of the ads says
"prefer LOCAL candidates".

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Kline Sphere
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      08-14-2003
I expect there will be a few more unemployed after the latest round of
network breaches due to the Lovsan virus. Anyone from the Federal
Reserve Bank of Atlanta out there?
 
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JJG
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      08-15-2003
<<I don't know if you noticed this, but most of the ads
says "prefer LOCAL candidates".>>

Yeap, of course I noticed , that's why to somewhat level
the playing field I offer to relocate @ my expense.
But I 'm very aware that is not as easy for other as for
me, (wife dont work & want to move, no kids,live in a
small apt...)



>-----Original Message-----
>
>I live in Houston, Texas. Where a lot of big companies

just put a bunch
>of super-programmers on the street (you probably have

heard about those
>news). I don't know if you noticed this, but most of the

ads says
>"prefer LOCAL candidates".
>
>--
>Posted via http://dbforums.com
>.
>

 
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MarkSJ
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      08-20-2003
"msnews.microsoft.com" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%23Ls$(E-Mail Removed)...
> If this sounds condescending at all, I apologize, as that is not the

intent.
> In every field, there is always a core group that have skills above

everyone
> else who remain employed. At the company I work for, I enjoy a salary

above
> most of the people in IT, and everyone in my group. Why? Skills are

higher.
> Also, when you truly know more, you have more confidence in your ability.
> You also tend to hold jobs when others get layed off (friendly word for
> fired, just like downsizing is a friendly word for out of work).
>


I certainly agree with you, Gregory, about staying ahead of the curve. In
our line of work, possibly more than any other, it is the only way to
guarantee a future.

However, I have to tell the flipside, as it just happened to me.
I just got laid off from a company I worked at for 2.5 years. I was
initially hired because of my higher skill level, and for the past 2.25
years was the only Lead Software Engineer the company had, for a team of 12
developers. I was the highest-paid developer, but also had the highest
skill level (and ambition). I was constantly pushing the other developers
to learn more, to push their development to higher standards. I pushed the
company to bring newer technology in, sometimes successfully, sometimes not.
Several months ago, the company hired some new developers on visa from
India. These were junior level developers at best, had no concept of what a
deadline was, and took a great deal of my time and the time of other
developers to train. These new developers were also paid at a much lower
scale than the existing developers. I was extremely surprised when two of
these junior developers from India were moved up to Lead positions about 4
months ago; it made no sense to me or to the other developers.
Well, surprise, surprise, half the development team (including me) were laid
off one morning, but none of the new-hires were. The company used the
excuse that it was downsizing the development team, and our positions had
been eliminated. Somehow the positions of the more experienced, higher paid
developers were eliminated, but the less experienced, less tenured, lower
paid ones in the same positions were kept. We had to sign paperwork stating
that we wouldn't sue the company if we wanted to get any type of termination
package.

I realize that the company I worked for is not typical, but I do believe
there are a surprising number of companies that use despicable and unethical
tactics like that for the shortsighted monetary gain.

To me it is totally disgusting that companies will do things like that. It
really makes me wish I was in a different profession. I am still here,
working hard to keep on the cutting edge, studying every single day, 7 days
per week, to learn the "latest & greatest" technology. Sometimes I wonder
what for? There is practically no job satisfaction unless you really get in
with a good company. Companies will lie in interviews much more than the
interviewees are likely to lie, so it is almost impossible to know in an
interview what it will be like to work for.

</rant>
Mark.
MCSD, MCAD, MCP+I


 
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