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ButlerFootball wrote:
> Hi, I am a novice photographer and have recently started a website for a
> local high school football team. I plan on taking game photos from the
> sideline this season, and would like advice on what digital camera I should
> get to do so. I would like to stay between the $500 - $1,000 range. I am
> currently using a Fuji Finepix S5100 and would like something better.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Perhaps the Olympus E-Volt cameras using the Four-Thirds lens
system. A friend of mine is doing pretty well with one for baseball
photos. However - it's a bit easier to frame a shot at the plate
than it is to follow moving football players from the sideline.

The 20D (or the newer 30D) is a great choice, and I'll tell you why.
Unless you'll be shooting exclusively in the daytime, your main problem
will be the poorly lit fields the team plays on. This means you'll
need a lens with a large aperture (f/2.8 or at the very least, f/4) and
you'll need to use a high ISO setting. This is where the Canons excel.
No comparable model can match the Canon's high-ISO performance.

You may think you can cheat and simply use lower ISOs and a flash, but
the results won't be very good. The player will look like a deer in
the headlights and you'll get lots glowing eyeballs.

Here's a gallery of shots I took in a game last year with my 20D:
http://www.pbase.com/bret/mccallie

That particular stadium is a college field and is very well lit. Most
high school stadiums are much darker.

Here's one from a different gallery on a typical poorly lit field:
http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/48264968

Note that I had to use all the tricks for this one ... f/2.8, 1600 ISO,
and my flash as well.
If I had lesser gear I'd have to restrict my shooting to day games,
which are rare in these parts.

Annika1980 wrote:

> You may think you can cheat and simply use lower ISOs and a flash, but
> the results won't be very good. The player will look like a deer in
> the headlights and you'll get lots glowing eyeballs.

Very few flashes are going to have adequate range for a
football field from the sideline. Even if you did get
subject in range of the flash, you'll end up with an
oddly dim background.

When I go to a night baseball or football game, I'll
sometimes see flashes going off from the stands. Just
tells me that lots of people have little idea how their
camera works.

On 7/12/06 8:48 PM, y_p_w wrote:
>
> Annika1980 wrote:
>
>> You may think you can cheat and simply use lower ISOs and a flash, but
>> the results won't be very good. The player will look like a deer in
>> the headlights and you'll get lots glowing eyeballs.
>
> Very few flashes are going to have adequate range for a
> football field from the sideline. Even if you did get
> subject in range of the flash, you'll end up with an
> oddly dim background.

Most folks aren't looking for a background at a night football or
lacrosse game.
>
> When I go to a night baseball or football game, I'll
> sometimes see flashes going off from the stands. Just
> tells me that lots of people have little idea how their
> camera works.

Oh, try a rock concert also, or the opening of the Olympics. Most folks
don't know how to, or if their flash turns off.

--
john mcwilliams

John McWilliams wrote:

> On 7/12/06 8:48 PM, y_p_w wrote:
>
>>Annika1980 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You may think you can cheat and simply use lower ISOs and a flash, but
>>>the results won't be very good. The player will look like a deer in
>>>the headlights and you'll get lots glowing eyeballs.
>>
>>Very few flashes are going to have adequate range for a
>>football field from the sideline. Even if you did get
>>subject in range of the flash, you'll end up with an
>>oddly dim background.
>
>
> Most folks aren't looking for a background at a night football or
> lacrosse game.

Sure. However - I've seen results from even a powerful
indoor flash with sports. One player is unevenly lit,
while teammates look really dark. Add a bit of redeye,
and the effect is rather unnatural. The only really good
indoor flash results I've seen are from powerful arena
strobes. As for football from the sidelines - the field
is 150+ feet wide, so how often is the ball carrier
within effective flash range?

I've been to night college football games and noted the
camera equipment used. It's almost always prime 300+ mm
F2.8 lenses on monopods, where the body literally hangs
from the lens. The pro shots do look like they were
taken at night, but they look "right" with the background
at a reasonably bright compared to the subject.

>>When I go to a night baseball or football game, I'll
>>sometimes see flashes going off from the stands. Just
>>tells me that lots of people have little idea how their
>>camera works.
>
>
> Oh, try a rock concert also, or the opening of the Olympics. Most folks
> don't know how to, or if their flash turns off.

Or places where flashes aren't allowed. I was at such
a place where the PA announcement was made every two
minutes. Of course everyone paused as the announcement
was made, and the flashes inevitably went off as soon
as it was over.

y_p_w wrote:

> Sure. However - I've seen results from even a powerful
> indoor flash with sports. One player is unevenly lit,
> while teammates look really dark. Add a bit of redeye,
> and the effect is rather unnatural. The only really good
> indoor flash results I've seen are from powerful arena
> strobes. As for football from the sidelines - the field
> is 150+ feet wide, so how often is the ball carrier
> within effective flash range?

Try moving the flash off the camera onto a flash bracket,
and use a better beamer (google that to see what it is).
Flash with a telephoto and the subject at 50+ yards is
no problem, even at low iso.

Roger

y_p_w wrote:
> John McWilliams wrote:
>
>> On 7/12/06 8:48 PM, y_p_w wrote:
>>
>>> Annika1980 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> You may think you can cheat and simply use lower ISOs and a
>>>> flash,
>>>> but the results won't be very good. The player will look like a
>>>> deer in the headlights and you'll get lots glowing eyeballs.
>>>
>>> Very few flashes are going to have adequate range for a
>>> football field from the sideline. Even if you did get
>>> subject in range of the flash, you'll end up with an
>>> oddly dim background.
>>
>>
>> Most folks aren't looking for a background at a night football or
>> lacrosse game.
>
> Sure. However - I've seen results from even a powerful
> indoor flash with sports. One player is unevenly lit,
> while teammates look really dark. Add a bit of redeye,
> and the effect is rather unnatural. The only really good
> indoor flash results I've seen are from powerful arena
> strobes. As for football from the sidelines - the field
> is 150+ feet wide, so how often is the ball carrier
> within effective flash range?
>
> I've been to night college football games and noted the
> camera equipment used. It's almost always prime 300+ mm
> F2.8 lenses on monopods, where the body literally hangs
> from the lens. The pro shots do look like they were
> taken at night, but they look "right" with the background
> at a reasonably bright compared to the subject.
>
>>> When I go to a night baseball or football game, I'll
>>> sometimes see flashes going off from the stands. Just
>>> tells me that lots of people have little idea how their
>>> camera works.
>>
>>
>> Oh, try a rock concert also, or the opening of the Olympics. Most
>> folks don't know how to, or if their flash turns off.
>
> Or places where flashes aren't allowed. I was at such
> a place where the PA announcement was made every two
> minutes. Of course everyone paused as the announcement
> was made, and the flashes inevitably went off as soon
> as it was over.

Just to give you an example of flash in a gymnasium (daytime), these
were made with a Nikon Coolpix 995 with a Vivitar 285H (compensated
cord) on an above-camera bracket.
http://www.fototime.com/inv/ACC24A98C4589A9

This kind of thing may not be to your taste, but it shows the power of
a pretty good flash.

I did all this before it occurred to me there might be some kind of
rules against flash, but no one said anything to me while I was doing
it, and the kids liked the pictures.

--
Frank ess

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:57:17 GMT, "ButlerFootball" <u24045@uwe> wrote:

>Hi, I am a novice photographer and have recently started a website for a
>local high school football team. I plan on taking game photos from the
>sideline this season, and would like advice on what digital camera I should
>get to do so. I would like to stay between the $500 - $1,000 range. I am
>currently using a Fuji Finepix S5100 and would like something better.
>
>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Canon 1DIIN.


************************************************** ***

"It just so happens we be Texicans. Texican is nothin'
but a human man way out on a limb, this year and next.
Maybe for a hundred more. But I don't think it'll
be forever. Some day, this country's gonna be a
fine good place to be."

"Mrs. Jorgensen"
from "The Searchers"

ButlerFootball wrote:
> Hi, I am a novice photographer and have recently started a website for a
> local high school football team. I plan on taking game photos from the
> sideline this season, and would like advice on what digital camera I should
> get to do so. I would like to stay between the $500 - $1,000 range. I am
> currently using a Fuji Finepix S5100 and would like something better.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Problem with the Fuji, it won't work well for night games, P&S cameras
have small sensors and don't work well with high ISOs (which you will
need).
Get a DSLR low end Nikon, Cannon, Pentax, Sony or Olympus. Buy the
camera new and find a used 80-200 zoom f2.8 (olympus lenses will vary
slightly). KEH camera is a good used source. You may want to get the
kit lens with the camera too. You should also get a good tripod, though
your paper may have one already. With 80-200 f2.8 zooms almost any
brand, even the 3rd party zoom are good opticly. So buy at a reputable
camera store.
This will but up agaisnt your upper range but will give you a very
usable system and let you cover games at any time.

Tom

Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) wrote:
> Try moving the flash off the camera onto a flash bracket,
> and use a better beamer (google that to see what it is).
> Flash with a telephoto and the subject at 50+ yards is
> no problem, even at low iso.

And I thought I was the only person to ever use a Better Beamer at a
football game.