«

Thanks, Emg.
I will try that... I think I failed because I don't have the experience
as an architect !? I have been a developer...

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com

> I think I failed because I don't have the experience
> as an architect !? I have been a developer...

Should be considered the same title.

Software Engineer, Software Practitioner, Analyst Programmer, Software
Developer, Software Architect are all the same.

Software development is not just about slapping a few controls on vb form or
writing a bit of C# code. So maybe you should just give up or become
professionally competent in what you do for a living.

"tommylee" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> Thanks, Emg.
> I will try that... I think I failed because I don't have the experience
> as an architect !? I have been a developer...
>
> --
> Posted via http://dbforums.com

No I am correct. They are just titles which mean the same thing. What your
company describes as a 'Software Architect' is what my company describes as
a senior (or principle) software engineer, another company my title that
role as senior analysis programmer or designer. Naturally there are
different grades which reflect the individual's experience and
responsibilities, i.e. principle, senior, junior or just plan grunt.

BTW, I don't know of any company that employs people to 'just cut code' -
case tools do that.

"Jamie" <> wrote in message
news: m...
> you are nearly correct John.....
>
> A Software Architect is a higher level position than a mere(!)
> programmer.
>
> not everyone that gets employed by a company to cut code will be
> equal. Skills come with experience, as do pay rises!
>
> At my company (a small software house), we have 3 Software Architects
> who are the gurus of the company, we then have maybe 7 senior level
> Software Engineers/Developer etc (like me), then about 3 lower level
> Developers.
>
> The lower level developers wouldnt have a clue as to how fit complex
> network/internet enabling technologies like Remoting or Web Services,
> how to design a database or why Stored Procedures are a good idea, or
> why Triggers can confuse people (like them!)
>
> The Software Architects are the ones that plan how the system is going
> to fit together on the larger "whole" scale. The senior developers are
> somewhere in between.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "John S" <> wrote in message
news:<#>...
> > > I think I failed because I don't have the experience
> > > as an architect !? I have been a developer...
> >
> > Should be considered the same title.
> >
> > Software Engineer, Software Practitioner, Analyst Programmer, Software
> > Developer, Software Architect are all the same.
> >
> > Software development is not just about slapping a few controls on vb
form or
> > writing a bit of C# code. So maybe you should just give up or become
> > professionally competent in what you do for a living.
> >
> > "tommylee" <> wrote in message
> > news:...
> > >
> > > Thanks, Emg.
> > > I will try that... I think I failed because I don't have the
experience
> > > as an architect !? I have been a developer...
> > >
> > > --
> > > Posted via http://dbforums.com

yup, fair enough, but in your original email, you didnt mention
anything about grades or levels, you said all those titles were the
same.

With those grades comes levels of responsibility.

I agree with what you say about "Software development is not just
about slapping a few controls on vb form or writing a bit of C# code"
but as the grades/levels indicate, certain people arent ever going to
be asked to put together a UML diagram, to design a database schema,
map out where components are going to live on the network, decide when
a message queue should be used, decide whether we should use Biztalk
and many other SENIOR level decisions.

These are the people that wont climb the career ladder of titles which
programmers like u me have (eg. grunt -> jnr -> snr -> architect).

oh, and when i say "cut code" i mean typing in code into an editor,
not letting a case tool generate it! There are plenty of companies
out there who have people doing that, i'm sure you've seen plenty of
projects go tits up because no-one bothered to spec it or design it
properly just like i have.




"John S" <> wrote in message news:<#>...
> No I am correct. They are just titles which mean the same thing. What your
> company describes as a 'Software Architect' is what my company describes as
> a senior (or principle) software engineer, another company my title that
> role as senior analysis programmer or designer. Naturally there are
> different grades which reflect the individual's experience and
> responsibilities, i.e. principle, senior, junior or just plan grunt.
>
> BTW, I don't know of any company that employs people to 'just cut code' -
> case tools do that.
>
> "Jamie" <> wrote in message
> news: m...
> > you are nearly correct John.....
> >
> > A Software Architect is a higher level position than a mere(!)
> > programmer.
> >
> > not everyone that gets employed by a company to cut code will be
> > equal. Skills come with experience, as do pay rises!
> >
> > At my company (a small software house), we have 3 Software Architects
> > who are the gurus of the company, we then have maybe 7 senior level
> > Software Engineers/Developer etc (like me), then about 3 lower level
> > Developers.
> >
> > The lower level developers wouldnt have a clue as to how fit complex
> > network/internet enabling technologies like Remoting or Web Services,
> > how to design a database or why Stored Procedures are a good idea, or
> > why Triggers can confuse people (like them!)
> >
> > The Software Architects are the ones that plan how the system is going
> > to fit together on the larger "whole" scale. The senior developers are
> > somewhere in between.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "John S" <> wrote in message
> news:<#>...
> > > > I think I failed because I don't have the experience
> > > > as an architect !? I have been a developer...
> > >
> > > Should be considered the same title.
> > >
> > > Software Engineer, Software Practitioner, Analyst Programmer, Software
> > > Developer, Software Architect are all the same.
> > >
> > > Software development is not just about slapping a few controls on vb
> form or
> > > writing a bit of C# code. So maybe you should just give up or become
> > > professionally competent in what you do for a living.
> > >
> > > "tommylee" <> wrote in message
> > > news:...
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Emg.
> > > > I will try that... I think I failed because I don't have the
> experience
> > > > as an architect !? I have been a developer...
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Posted via http://dbforums.com

That's a lot of chiefs and not too many injuns!


>-----Original Message-----
>you are nearly correct John.....
>
>A Software Architect is a higher level position than a
mere(!)
>programmer.
>
>not everyone that gets employed by a company to cut code
will be
>equal. Skills come with experience, as do pay rises!
>
>At my company (a small software house), we have 3
Software Architects
>who are the gurus of the company, we then have maybe 7
senior level
>Software Engineers/Developer etc (like me), then about 3
lower level
>Developers.
>
>The lower level developers wouldnt have a clue as to how
fit complex
>network/internet enabling technologies like Remoting or
Web Services,
>how to design a database or why Stored Procedures are a
good idea, or
>why Triggers can confuse people (like them!)
>
>The Software Architects are the ones that plan how the
system is going
>to fit together on the larger "whole" scale. The senior
developers are
>somewhere in between.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"John S" <> wrote in message
news:<#>...
>> > I think I failed because I don't have the experience
>> > as an architect !? I have been a developer...
>>
>> Should be considered the same title.
>>
>> Software Engineer, Software Practitioner, Analyst
Programmer, Software
>> Developer, Software Architect are all the same.
>>
>> Software development is not just about slapping a few
controls on vb form or
>> writing a bit of C# code. So maybe you should just give
up or become
>> professionally competent in what you do for a living.
>>
>> "tommylee" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>> >
>> > Thanks, Emg.
>> > I will try that... I think I failed because I don't
have the experience
>> > as an architect !? I have been a developer...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Posted via http://dbforums.com
>.
>

> I agree with what you say about "Software development is not just
> about slapping a few controls on vb form or writing a bit of C# code"
> but as the grades/levels indicate, certain people arent ever going to
> be asked to put together a UML diagram, to design a database schema,
> map out where components are going to live on the network, decide when
> a message queue should be used, decide whether we should use Biztalk
> and many other SENIOR level decisions.

My company expects the grads they take on to be able to correctly model
basic systems using UML taking use cases and producing the static and
dynamic views of the system. Where I work it is vital that people are
versatile and able adapt; as an example you will always be working on more
than one project, oftn doing different roles. If not, it means the company
is going down the drain becouse there is no work and no one wants our
products. In other words, we simply could not afford to have people standing
around waiting for 'someone to sign of the requirements specification'.

As far as detemining the 'most appropriate' technologies and approaches to
take, of couse only senior people make the top decisions. For us, this is
always undertaken by the technical project lead and other experienced people
(both from the technical and business area domains) in conjunction with the
customer. The customer(s) would soon dump you if you sent a grunt to do
this.

> These are the people that wont climb the career ladder of titles which
> programmers like u me have (eg. grunt -> jnr -> snr -> architect).

They would never be employed here.

> oh, and when i say "cut code" i mean typing in code into an editor,
> not letting a case tool generate it!

Working for a software house we tend to write code once and re-use it where
appropriate, both at the binary level and at the source code level (i.e.
templates and case tool generated skeleton code). We could not survive if we
did not have a process model in place which implied rewriting cod to do the
same thing over and over again. Less than ten percent of effort and
resources go into 'coding'.

> There are plenty of companies
> out there who have people doing that, i'm sure you've seen plenty of
> projects go tits up because no-one bothered to spec it or design it
> properly just like i have.

Fortunately not, we don't deal with cowboys [for long]. Although I know this
to be true as well - just look at the posts to this group - ha, ha!

"Jamie" <> wrote in message
news: om...
> yup, fair enough, but in your original email, you didnt mention
> anything about grades or levels, you said all those titles were the
> same.
>
> With those grades comes levels of responsibility.
>
> I agree with what you say about "Software development is not just
> about slapping a few controls on vb form or writing a bit of C# code"
> but as the grades/levels indicate, certain people arent ever going to
> be asked to put together a UML diagram, to design a database schema,
> map out where components are going to live on the network, decide when
> a message queue should be used, decide whether we should use Biztalk
> and many other SENIOR level decisions.
>
> These are the people that wont climb the career ladder of titles which
> programmers like u me have (eg. grunt -> jnr -> snr -> architect).
>
> oh, and when i say "cut code" i mean typing in code into an editor,
> not letting a case tool generate it! There are plenty of companies
> out there who have people doing that, i'm sure you've seen plenty of
> projects go tits up because no-one bothered to spec it or design it
> properly just like i have.
>
>
>
>
> "John S" <> wrote in message
news:<#>...
> > No I am correct. They are just titles which mean the same thing. What
your
> > company describes as a 'Software Architect' is what my company describes
as
> > a senior (or principle) software engineer, another company my title that
> > role as senior analysis programmer or designer. Naturally there are
> > different grades which reflect the individual's experience and
> > responsibilities, i.e. principle, senior, junior or just plan grunt.
> >
> > BTW, I don't know of any company that employs people to 'just cut
code' -
> > case tools do that.
> >
> > "Jamie" <> wrote in message
> > news: m...
> > > you are nearly correct John.....
> > >
> > > A Software Architect is a higher level position than a mere(!)
> > > programmer.
> > >
> > > not everyone that gets employed by a company to cut code will be
> > > equal. Skills come with experience, as do pay rises!
> > >
> > > At my company (a small software house), we have 3 Software Architects
> > > who are the gurus of the company, we then have maybe 7 senior level
> > > Software Engineers/Developer etc (like me), then about 3 lower level
> > > Developers.
> > >
> > > The lower level developers wouldnt have a clue as to how fit complex
> > > network/internet enabling technologies like Remoting or Web Services,
> > > how to design a database or why Stored Procedures are a good idea, or
> > > why Triggers can confuse people (like them!)
> > >
> > > The Software Architects are the ones that plan how the system is going
> > > to fit together on the larger "whole" scale. The senior developers are
> > > somewhere in between.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "John S" <> wrote in message
> > news:<#>...
> > > > > I think I failed because I don't have the experience
> > > > > as an architect !? I have been a developer...
> > > >
> > > > Should be considered the same title.
> > > >
> > > > Software Engineer, Software Practitioner, Analyst Programmer,
Software
> > > > Developer, Software Architect are all the same.
> > > >
> > > > Software development is not just about slapping a few controls on vb
> > form or
> > > > writing a bit of C# code. So maybe you should just give up or become
> > > > professionally competent in what you do for a living.
> > > >
> > > > "tommylee" <> wrote in message
> > > > news:...
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks, Emg.
> > > > > I will try that... I think I failed because I don't have the
> > experience
> > > > > as an architect !? I have been a developer...
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Posted via http://dbforums.com