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Panorama photography / widely variable light - solution??

 
 
Destin_FL
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      06-19-2006
Hi all,
If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the Panosaurus head,
having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm, man it is fantastic.
Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City Panorama Factory, and output a
..MOV and its really beautiful.

BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to be
able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf. If it
wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the windows blow
out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be fine. But I can't
let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in all
its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.

So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the stitching
works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for itself as it spins
past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins into and through the
room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant light intensity it doesn't
matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted area, matrix, whatever, none of
them capture the room correctly metered or the windows correctly metered to see
outside.

Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101 wild
one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera
wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's
capturing the interiors/rooms right....

Any ideas??

Tim


 
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Daniel Silevitch
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-19-2006
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:57:50 -0500, Destin_FL <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Hi all,
> If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the Panosaurus head,
> having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm, man it is fantastic.
> Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City Panorama Factory, and output a
> .MOV and its really beautiful.
>
> BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to be
> able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf. If it
> wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the windows blow
> out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be fine. But I can't
> let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in all
> its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.
>
> So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the stitching
> works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for itself as it spins
> past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins into and through the
> room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant light intensity it doesn't
> matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted area, matrix, whatever, none of
> them capture the room correctly metered or the windows correctly metered to see
> outside.


Two solutions come immediately to mind:
1) If you aren't already, shoot in RAW, and hope that there's enough
dynamic range to capture everything. Meter for the out-the-window
highlights, and pull the inside parts up out of the shadows.

2) If that doesn't work, do two sets of shots. One, metering for the
inside. A second set, in register with the first, of the windows,
metering for the outside. Easiest way to do this would be to do
a bracketed set of exposures at each camera position. Composite in
Photoshop before stitching into a VR movie.

-dms
 
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Randy Berbaum
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      06-19-2006
Destin_FL <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

: Is the only solution one of these
: http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101 wild one shot VR lens
: things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera wouldn't know
: how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's capturing
: the interiors/rooms right....

Here's the problem. If the camera is metering on the bright outside,
anything in the same image of the inside will be dark. If the camera
meters on the inside, everything of the outside in the same image will be
blown. There are at least two solutions I can see. Either you can balance
the lighting levels for both indoors and outdoors, or you can shoot two
seperate images that you then edit together later. One image metered to
the outside lighting levels and one metered to the indoor conditions.

In the former case (balancing) you can use bright lights indoors that will
allow the light levels to be close or match in intensity for the two
areas. Or you could try using a darkening film (like used for tinted
windows) to darken the outdoor view to something closer to the indoor
lighting. Or you can wait until the outdoor lighting is closer to the
indoor lighting (which explains why so many similar images show a
beautiful sunrise or sundown through the window).

One idea. Go outside and lean back against the window and take an image or
what you would see outside the window. Then when you go inside keep the
same lens focal length, meter for the indoor lighting and make your
panorama. Then in Photoshop put the outside photo in the background, with
the inside image in the foreground. Cut out the window panes carefully,
exposing the properly exposed outdoor view.

Randy

==========
Randy Berbaum
Champaign, IL

 
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Keith
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-19-2006
Destin_FL <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Hi all, If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the
> Panosaurus head, having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm,
> man it is fantastic. Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City
> Panorama Factory, and output a .MOV and its really beautiful.
>
> BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to
> be able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf.
> If it wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the
> windows blow out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be
> fine. But I can't let the windows blow out because I need to be showing
> the Gulf (Destin) in all its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior
> room metered right.
>
> So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the
> stitching works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for
> itself as it spins past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins
> into and through the room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant
> light intensity it doesn't matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted
> area, matrix, whatever, none of them capture the room correctly metered or
> the windows correctly metered to see outside.
>
> Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101
> wild one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the
> camera wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out
> if it's capturing the interiors/rooms right....
>
> Any ideas??
>
> Tim


Always shoot manual everything for panos - exposure, wb and focus. For
this case simply expose one pano for the interior and another for the
windows, stitch the two separate panos and then merge with something
like Photomatix or the HDR function in Photoshop.

Metering mode is irrelevant - with manual aperture and shutter speed
selection use your head and check the histogram.

For an example of a solution to your problem have a look at this web
page:

http://www.hdrsoft.com/
 
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Rudy Benner
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-19-2006

"Destin_FL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Hwnlg.8250$f76.3345@dukeread06...
> Hi all,
> If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the Panosaurus
> head,
> having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm, man it is
> fantastic.
> Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City Panorama Factory, and
> output a
> .MOV and its really beautiful.
>
> BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to
> be
> able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf. If
> it
> wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the windows
> blow
> out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be fine. But I
> can't
> let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in
> all
> its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.
>
> So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the
> stitching
> works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for itself as it
> spins
> past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins into and through
> the
> room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant light intensity it
> doesn't
> matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted area, matrix, whatever,
> none of
> them capture the room correctly metered or the windows correctly metered
> to see
> outside.
>
> Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101
> wild
> one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera
> wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's
> capturing the interiors/rooms right....
>
> Any ideas??
>
> Tim
>
>


Thanks for the tip on the Panosaurus head, just what I needed. I have
ordered mine.

Software I use is PTGui. Excellent. The Panosaurus head will take care of
the foreground parallax problem.

R.


 
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Scott W
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-19-2006
Destin_FL wrote:
> Hi all,
> If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the Panosaurus head,
> having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm, man it is fantastic.
> Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City Panorama Factory, and output a
> .MOV and its really beautiful.
>
> BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to be
> able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf. If it
> wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the windows blow
> out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be fine. But I can't
> let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in all
> its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.
>
> So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the stitching
> works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for itself as it spins
> past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins into and through the
> room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant light intensity it doesn't
> matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted area, matrix, whatever, none of
> them capture the room correctly metered or the windows correctly metered to see
> outside.
>
> Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101 wild
> one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera
> wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's
> capturing the interiors/rooms right....
>
> Any ideas??

Shooting a room and having the outside not blown is pretty tricky but
can be done with a bit of work and a few slave flash units. There are
fairly cheap slaves flash strobes that you can screw into a light bulb
socket, they mostly need some find of diffuser in front of them
however. When using a flash to do panoramic shots it works best if the
camera strobe is set to very low power, just enough to trigger the
slaves.

It is also possible to just use manual setting and meter on the outside
and then pull up the inside later. This shot was done with very low
light inside the cabin and I had to make large adjustment to balance
the inside to the outside using Photoshop.
http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/61769435/large

Scott

 
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Ron Hunter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-20-2006
Rudy Benner wrote:
> "Destin_FL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Hwnlg.8250$f76.3345@dukeread06...
>> Hi all,
>> If I take my D70 outside and do a full 360 pano shot with the Panosaurus
>> head,
>> having determined the nodal point of the Tokina 12-24mm, man it is
>> fantastic.
>> Works perfectly; I stick them all in Smoky City Panorama Factory, and
>> output a
>> .MOV and its really beautiful.
>>
>> BUT.... what I need more often than that is difficult to shoot: I need to
>> be
>> able to shoot from inside a home, to do VT's for realtors on the Gulf. If
>> it
>> wasn't important to get the Gulf in the shots, I'd just let the windows
>> blow
>> out, having the interior metered properly, and that would be fine. But I
>> can't
>> let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in
>> all
>> its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.
>>
>> So I thought, OK I'll just set the camera to Aperture Priority so the
>> stitching
>> works, (depth of field, blah blah) and let the D70 meter for itself as it
>> spins
>> past the windows with the Gulf out there and then spins into and through
>> the
>> room. Not even close! Because of the hugely variant light intensity it
>> doesn't
>> matter if I use spot metering, center-weighted area, matrix, whatever,
>> none of
>> them capture the room correctly metered or the windows correctly metered
>> to see
>> outside.
>>
>> Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101
>> wild
>> one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera
>> wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's
>> capturing the interiors/rooms right....
>>
>> Any ideas??
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>

>
> Thanks for the tip on the Panosaurus head, just what I needed. I have
> ordered mine.
>
> Software I use is PTGui. Excellent. The Panosaurus head will take care of
> the foreground parallax problem.
>
> R.
>
>

The light problem is solved by one of two methods, either setting the
camera on manual, or correcting for lighting variations before arranging
them in the panorama. Better 'pano' programs will balance light from
shot to shot.
 
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Randy Berbaum
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-20-2006
Ron Hunter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

: The light problem is solved by one of two methods, either setting the
: camera on manual, or correcting for lighting variations before arranging
: them in the panorama. Better 'pano' programs will balance light from
: shot to shot.

True but if both the indoor and outdoor segments are in the same image I
don't know how many programs can repair extremely different light
conditions on segments within a single image. I guess that there could be
some slight adjustments under auto controls. But personally I wouldn't
count on any program being able to correct the sunny day scene outside a
window in an image exposed for the indoor lighting conditions. Blown is
blown.

IMHO

Randy

==========
Randy Berbaum
Champaign, IL

 
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nikojorj_jaimepaslapub@yahoo.Fr
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-20-2006

Destin_FL wrote:
> BUT.... [...] I can't
> let the windows blow out because I need to be showing the Gulf (Destin) in all
> its Emerald Coast lovliness AND have the interior room metered right.


I'd say that even shooting RAW, dynamic range would be too huge.
Strobes could be an answer, but be very careful NOT to move them during
the shot or you'll have some ugly differential lightings between the
shots.

The main solution I see is to make two exposures of each shot, without
moving the camera (eg by strong bracketing : +2 and -2 or +3 and -3
IE).
Then, blend each image couple with Photoshop (see eg
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tu...blending.shtml and
do care for applying _constant_ parameters in the process from one
image couple to another) to have a single set of HDR images, that you
can now assemble as usual.


> Is the only solution one of these http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101 wild
> one shot VR lens things??? Seems like even with one of those, the camera
> wouldn't know how to capture the windows without blowing them out if it's
> capturing the interiors/rooms right....


Simpler process : just two shots to blend as above, but much less
output resolution (may not be a problem for web publishing) and 750$
less in your wallet.
Your call!

 
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Destin_FL
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      06-20-2006
Hi all,
Yeah, that's the deal... waaaaaaaaayyyy too much range in each individual shot.

Hey, Scott, are you still around??
On the shot you did http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/61769435/large for
this,
where is all the light coming from fired at the ceiling right above the camera?
Am I seeing that correctly?
In the successful panos I've seen there does always seem to be this huge amount
of light firing above the camera.

Because my biggest worry is using slaves or multiple SB-600's - but then that
always seem too directional which
means I'd have these weird lighter areas in the 360 degrees. In the good panos
I've seen just like yours, how do make
the camera spin and never see the slaves, SB-600's, or tripods sitting around,
and so I recognize that you have somewhere
managed to get a ton of light into the room from right above the camera....????

Thanks to all who have responded!

Tim


 
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