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Hi Jeff,
I haven't been monitoring this group for very long, but I would say that
Kline Sphere has posted some very useful comments. I read his response to
one post and felt he was providing enough good information that I replied to
the post and asked him for more information, which he kindly supplied, in
great abundance. I am very grateful for this.
I have seen, in a number of these groups, some very sarcastic remarks.
Those receiving the flames usually deserve them. I rarely see a legitimate
post get flamed by anyone.

Bob Holmes

From: "Jeff" <>
Subject: Has Kilne Sphere ever made a userful post?
Date: Friday, June 27, 2003 8:24 PM

I'm curious Kline, why do you post here?

VERY AGREE with every Kline Sphere post.
He is right - too much (sorry for being rude, but it is the true)
uneducated people are trying to get these certificates without any sign
of understanding that it is about - look at the 75% of the questions -
they are far from regular PC users level even. So if they are trying to
get for instance MCSD.NET using braindumps and just memorizing the
answers - how I (or any employer) can take the MCSD as a confirmation of
a certain developer level or knowledge? So he is right - Try your toilet
for braindumps and Money is The Power!
Go Kline!!

George
MCSD, MCAD, MCSD.NET

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com

> VERY AGREE with every Kline Sphere post.
> He is right - too much (sorry for being rude, but it
> is the true)
> uneducated people are trying to get these
> certificates without any sign
> of understanding that it is about - look at the 75%
> of the questions -
> they are far from regular PC users level even. So if
> they are trying to

So ignore them instead of flaming.

> get for instance MCSD.NET using braindumps and just
> memorizing the
> answers - how I (or any employer) can take the MCSD
> as a confirmation of
> a certain developer level or knowledge? So he is
> right -

I don't believe that anybody can pass exams just by
using braindumps. It _is_ possible if he or she have
already some knowledge on the subject. I have
experience in C/C++, VB, Java, but I don't think I
could pass for MCSD.Net if didn't buy the MOC books to
study from. And normally I looked up for braindumps,
cause I want to see what questions await me.

> Try your toilet for braindumps and Money is The
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

No offence but that is a stupid thing to say ! I don't
like the "I have my MCSD and now I've got god by his
balls, so you all can take your posts and shove it
where the sun don't shine" attitude !
I posted a question on exam 316 a week ago, and it
still seems as a perfectly normal question (and I got a
perfectly normal reply by Guy Cox - tnx Guy), cause i
wanted to know whether the MOC books are sufficent
enough from other people experience. From Kline Sphere
I only got his frustrated ranting about his toilet
fascination. As it seems to me he didn't even bother to
read past the subject, but started flaming at once !
What is this group all about ? To read someones
praisings like "I passed for MCSD - I kick butt ", or
what ?!

Originally posted by Dusty
> >> look at the 75%
> >> of the questions -
> >> they are far from regular PC users level even. So if
> >> they are trying to
>
> > So ignore them instead of flaming.
>
> So we did until now, there are exceptions of course...
>
> >> get for instance MCSD.NET using braindumps and just
> >> memorizing the
> >> answers - how I (or any employer) can take the MCSD
> >> as a confirmation of
> >> a certain developer level or knowledge? So he is
> >> right -
>
> >I don't believe that anybody can pass exams just by
> >using braindumps. It _is_ possible if he or she have
> >already some knowledge on the subject. I have
> >experience in C/C++, VB, Java, but I don't think I
> >could pass for MCSD.Net if didn't buy the MOC books to
> >study from. And normally I looked up for braindumps,
> >cause I want to see what questions await me.
>
> Well if you have en experiance, questions in fact should be very easy
> for you, I don't think they are so hard. In my opinion even if your
> experiance is for at least 6 months (in .NET) and you have read at
> least 1 book for each exam (not the MCSD/MCAD preparation guids -
> these stupid superficial cram guids - I mean real good books from Wrox
> for instance) - you can pass any of this just in twinkling of an eyes
> - they are so simple and naive - just you have to know the matter and
> at least have done a couple of lines of real coding.
>
> >> Try your toilet for braindumps and Money is The
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> >> No offence but that is a stupid thing to say ! I don't
> >>like the "I have my MCSD and now I've got god by his
> >>balls, so you all can take your posts and shove it
> >>where the sun don't shine" attitude !
> >>I posted a question on exam 316 a week ago, and it
> >>still seems as a perfectly normal question (and I got a
> >>perfectly normal reply by Guy Cox - tnx Guy), cause i
> >>wanted to know whether the MOC books are sufficent
> >>enough from other people experience. From Kline Sphere
> >>I only got his frustrated ranting about his toilet
> >>fascination. As it seems to me he didn't even bother to
> >>read past the subject, but started flaming at once !
> >>What is this group all about ? To read someones
> >>praisings like "I passed for MCSD - I kick butt ", or
> >>what ?!
>
> The answer is above - just as a reminder - from Microsoft's MCSD for
> .NET requirements page - An MCSD for Microsoft .NET candidate should
> have two years of experience developing and maintaining solutions and
> applications
> http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/m...ementsdotnet.-
> asp"]http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcsd/requirementsdotnet.a-
> sp[/url]


--
Posted via http://dbforums.com

>I have
>experience in C/C++, VB, Java, but I don't think I
>could pass for MCSD.Net

But you could if you were given or paid for the questions (and even
the answers).

"Kline Sphere" <T> wrote in message
news:...
> >I have
> >experience in C/C++, VB, Java, but I don't think I
> >could pass for MCSD.Net
>
> But you could if you were given or paid for the questions (and even
> the answers).

I tend not to agree that brain dumps are that damaging. The more power to
anyone that can remember the answers to hundreds of often complicated
questions. (there is more than one flavor of the same exam). I have done
repeated passes at sample exams and have discovered that I answered
questions wrong the second time that I answered right the first time, simple
because I second-guessed myself. If they are that capable, and can get 75+%
of the questions that way, they are probably more than capable of getting
the certification by studying the real way. And they may actually learn a
lot from the questions anyway, so even though their certification is less
valuable, I only assume that they will degrade the value of the
certification a small amount. The way the certification is degraded is that
employers get employees who can't deliver and people this clever are more
likely to deliver than not. And as you yourself have pointed out, the
certification by itself means little. Job experience counts far more. And
that's what separates a college intern from a seasoned professional.

In fact to make brain dumps nearly impossible to cheat with, Microsoft would
have to do very little to its existing base of exams. They could for
instance change the question to a negative instead of a positive. That way
if you had memorized the answer without evaluating the question, you would
surely pick the opposite of the correct answer. A few variations in the way
the question was asked would make it impossible to cheat by memory alone.

What concerns me far more is that there are thousands of testing centers. To
assume, in this same world where corporate executives daily cheat
shareholders, that every one of those operations has hired honest people
that will not take money to help a person cheat, is far more of a stretch on
the value of certification. If this occurs in large numbers, then the value
of the certification is lowered far more than brain dumps. Sure they will
probably be discovered soon after they start a new job (assuming the
employer does not do basic things like subject them to peer question
sessions like we did at our company). But the problem is that by the time
they are discovered, the damage to the cert's reputation is done.

Wray Smallwood

>I tend not to agree that brain dumps are that damaging. The more power to
>anyone that can remember the answers to hundreds of often complicated
>questions. (there is more than one flavor of the same exam).

It's the understanding of the questions that is the issue. You can
train monkeys to pick the right answer, simply from memory.

The format of the exams allows for a candidate to gain a mark for a
question they do not know the answer for, simply by guessing and
selecting the correct answer which is in a list.

My view is the exam format would need to be as those used in colleges
and universities, whereby the candidate not only has to give the
correct answer but has to explain what it is the correct answer, thus
showing an understanding of the question.

My friend bought his certification from a fake mcse certificate site
called www.compcerts.com and got it the easy way!

Memorising answers beats fake credentials!

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taine------------------------------------------------------------------------
taine's Profile: http://www.examnotes.net/forums/memb...&userid=183545

> My friend bought his certification from a fake mcse
certificate site
> called www.compcerts.com and got it the easy way!
>
> Memorising answers beats fake credentials!

Nice advert But sooner or later he will be exposed
as a fake, and then ....

.... Svako jutro isti kurac kada otvorim novine ....