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Which D-SLR would you choose?

 
 
Chuck Taylor
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      11-30-2005
I'm a neophyte digital camera user, trying to decide which digital SLR
camera to buy. I am considering two options, both priced roughly the
same:

1) A friend's used Fujifilm Finepix S2 Pro w/ Nikon Zoom Telephoto
70-210mm f/4.5-5.6
2) A brand-new Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT w/ Canon EF-S 18-85mm f/4-5.6
lens

Which would you choose? Which Canon or Nikon digital camera models are
the closest comparisons to the Fujifilm Finepix S2 Pro camera?

Thanks, in advance, for your advice. I value your opinions.

 
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Paul Rubin
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      11-30-2005
"Chuck Taylor" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> I'm a neophyte digital camera user, trying to decide which digital SLR
> camera to buy.


If you're a neophyte, why do you think a DSLR is right for you? I'm
not saying it isn't, but if you have a reason to think it is, you
probably also know your own requirements well enough to decide for
yourself.

> Which would you choose? Which Canon or Nikon digital camera models are
> the closest comparisons to the Fujifilm Finepix S2 Pro camera?


There aren't any that are really close. Better read the S2 reviews
carefully. The S2 is kind of a weird camera. It might be super for
you or it might not be what you want at all. With the Canon, you
can't go too far wrong.
 
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uw_wayne
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      11-30-2005
Understand that Canon lens will not fit on the S2. It was made from a
Nikon body and will accept only Nikon lenses and not all of them at
that. The 70-200 lens is a telephoto allowing you to shoot pictures far
away and making them look close up. The 18-85 is a wide angle lens
allowing to you to capture everything you see from close up. Do a
little more home work before you spend your money. It will be worth
your time to do so. Have fun.

 
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David Dyer-Bennet
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      11-30-2005
"Chuck Taylor" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> I'm a neophyte digital camera user, trying to decide which digital SLR
> camera to buy. I am considering two options, both priced roughly the
> same:
>
> 1) A friend's used Fujifilm Finepix S2 Pro w/ Nikon Zoom Telephoto
> 70-210mm f/4.5-5.6
> 2) A brand-new Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT w/ Canon EF-S 18-85mm f/4-5.6
> lens
>
> Which would you choose? Which Canon or Nikon digital camera models are
> the closest comparisons to the Fujifilm Finepix S2 Pro camera?


Well, I've *got* a Fuji S2 currently, and it's a great camera. I
chose it in preference to the Nikon D100 (a near-twin; in fact it's
the same camera body, just different electronics in it). But I was
already a Nikon system user with a lot of lenses, so I wasn't looking
at the Canon side of the house.

In *current* models the Nikon D70 is probably the best analogy to the
S2. In Canon models, perhaps the 10D (not really quite a current
model; but then neither is the S2).

A Rebel XT is a *current* generation low end DSLR. I'd describe the
S2 as a previous-generaion semi-pro model (I've sure seen a lot of
pros using them, but that N80 body it's based on sure isn't a
pro-level body). On the individual cameras, there are benefits
advantages and disadvantages both ways.

In addition, you're choosing between the Canon and Nikon lens systems,
and future bodies (to some extent; you *can* always switch later, but
it's kinda expensive). Right this instant the Canon system of bodies
has some definite advantages in the high-end professional models
(though the Nikon D2X is a fine camera for many environments).
However, I wouldn't count on it staying that way forever. And how
many high-end professional bodies are you planning to buy? So far in
*my* crazed amateur photography career (spanning 36 years), the only
pro-level cameras I've owned I bought 20 or more years after they were
current, which hardly counts.

The question of full-frame vs. cropped sensor is highly religious. If
you're the sort of photographer who *needs* a 14mm rectilinear lens on
your 35mm camera, and are perhaps seriously considering a 12mm, then
the cropped sensors are not for you.

If you're the sort who needs a 300mm f2.8, lusts after a 400mm f2.8,
and would kill for a 600mm f4, the cropped sensors are your best
friends (and there are special lenses from Nikon, Canon, and
independent lens manufacturers that get you out to 15mm equiv. on a
1.5x sensor, 16mm equiv. on a 1.6x sensor, so you don't lose that
severely on the wide end if you're willing to buy *one* more lens).

Between these extremes, there's a huge range where either one could
make sense. Note what the Canon 1Ds mk II full-frame body costs; or
even what the 5D body costs.

Be realistic. Note what the Nikon 14mm lens costs, or (much worse)
any of the 400mm f2.8 lenses. No point driving your whole decision by
something you're never going to actually own.

Both Canon and Nikon equipment is easily capable of taking *really
incredibly HORRIBLE* photos; *you* are the most important component in
the photographic system. The Canon Rebel XT, the Nikon D70, or that
used Fuji S2 are all very versatile and good photographic tools. None
of them are *as* powerful or versatile as a Nikon D2x or a Canon 1Ds
mk II, in various ways (they're not as heavy, or as expensive,
either). From the information you have put forward, I wouldn't say
that any one of those three would be a bad choice for you.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <(E-Mail Removed)>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
 
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David Dyer-Bennet
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      11-30-2005
Paul Rubin <http://(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> "Chuck Taylor" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> > I'm a neophyte digital camera user, trying to decide which digital SLR
> > camera to buy.

>
> If you're a neophyte, why do you think a DSLR is right for you? I'm
> not saying it isn't, but if you have a reason to think it is, you
> probably also know your own requirements well enough to decide for
> yourself.


That's a good point to raise, that I skipped over. I just assumed he
wanted what he wanted, but in fact questioning it is worth doing.

> > Which would you choose? Which Canon or Nikon digital camera models are
> > the closest comparisons to the Fujifilm Finepix S2 Pro camera?

>
> There aren't any that are really close. Better read the S2 reviews
> carefully. The S2 is kind of a weird camera. It might be super for
> you or it might not be what you want at all. With the Canon, you
> can't go too far wrong.


The S2 isn't *that* weird. It's nearly identical to the Nikon D100,
making it very similar to the D70, I'd say.

I'd say with the S2 he can't go too far wrong either. Other than the
obvious (takes Canon lenses instead of Nikon), what does the Rebel XT
do clearly better than the S2? (I'm not suggesting there's *nothing*
it does better; I just can't think of anything off the top of my head,
which may be because I'm not very knowledgable about the Canon
cameras).

Coming up with a list of things the S2 and the Rebel XT can do that
the other can't is an interesting exercise, and seems very relevant to
the original question.

Let's see. I think the S2 handles TTL flash exposure quite poorly (it
doesn't speak the iTTL protocol, and in my experience tends to expose
flash somewhat randomly; I use manual or exposure compensation A LOT
when shooting flash with my S2). I wouldn't be at all surprised if
the Rebel XT handled TTL flash automation better than the S2 (I hear
that the modern Nikon digitals handle flash generally significantly
better than the modern Canons, but as we have already agreeed, the
Fuji S2 is not a modern Nikon digital ).

That exhausts the things I know enough about both cameras to have an
opinion on. Anybody else?
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <(E-Mail Removed)>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
 
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David Dyer-Bennet
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      11-30-2005
"uw_wayne" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> Understand that Canon lens will not fit on the S2. It was made from a
> Nikon body and will accept only Nikon lenses and not all of them at
> that.


It will accept a far, far larger percentage of Nikon lenses than the
Rebel XT will of Canon lenses. Because Canon orphaned their old lens
mount when they introduced the autofocus EOS camera series in the
1980s, and Nikon did not. I'm still using Nikon lenses I bought in
the very early 1980s on my Fuji S2, they work fine.

> The 70-200 lens is a telephoto allowing you to shoot pictures far
> away and making them look close up. The 18-85 is a wide angle lens
> allowing to you to capture everything you see from close up. Do a
> little more home work before you spend your money. It will be worth
> your time to do so. Have fun.


The 18mm end is a fairly wide wideangle, but the 85 end is solidly
into medium telephoto territory on a 1.5/1.6x sensor camera.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <(E-Mail Removed)>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
 
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Paul Rubin
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-30-2005
David Dyer-Bennet <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> Coming up with a list of things the S2 and the Rebel XT can do that
> the other can't is an interesting exercise, and seems very relevant to
> the original question.


The S2 is much bigger, heavier, handles more slowly (I think), has
Firewire instead of USB(?), etc. It has the weird hexagonal CCD so
the output files have more pixels than the sensor itself has. Also,
it's an older camera and doesn't have a warranty.
 
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Paul Rubin
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      11-30-2005
David Dyer-Bennet <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> I'm still using Nikon lenses I bought in the very early 1980s on my
> Fuji S2, they work fine.


Can you use the exposure meter at all with those lenses? I thought
the S2 used the F80 metering system, like the D100 did.
 
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kodakfilm@gmail.com
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      11-30-2005
The answer for me is simple. I buy Nikon - period! I have been buying
Nikon since 1959 when I bought my first Nikon F. In August 2004 I
switched to digital. I now have a D70 and a D70S and sold all my old
Nikon lenses and Nikon film cameras. I now have the Nikon: 12-24mm,
28-200mm "G", 200mm f4 "macro", and the 80-400mm VR. The lenses are all
superb.

I don't shoot sports so have no need for a "fast" lens. When shooting
nature, most of what I shoot these days, I shut down to a minimum of
f5.6 so have no need for the super fast, super expensive Nikon lenses.

If I were starting fresh, or if someone asks me, I would advise them to
buy Canon. I think they are more innovative and have some great
products - especially a super macro lens [close-up only - it won't
focus at infinity but goes to 5X without bellows, extension tubes or
other such artifacts and for which Nikon has nothing similar], and
unlike the old days [1960s] make reliable products. I have never had a
Nikon that broke except through MY misuse [dropping it in a mountain
stream, shoving the memory card in the wrong way and bending the pins].

I will buy the D200 the second it is available. The sensor technology
and internal software algorithms just keep improving!

Another horrid thing about Nikon is their idiotic policy, which MAYBE
they are revising, where their RAW images can't be processed by
Photoshop CS2. While there is now a fix from Adobe for the D70S, you
may be forced to buy the absolute crap software Nikon shoves down your
throat so you can deal with their proprietary RAW format. Grow up
Nikon. Idiotic policies like this are partially responsible for why I
recommend Canon for newbies. Installing the Nikon software actually
screws up your Photoshop CS2. Shame on Nikon!!

Tom Roach

 
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John A. Stovall
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-30-2005
On 30 Nov 2005 05:15:37 -0800, "(E-Mail Removed)"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>The answer for me is simple. I buy Nikon - period! I have been buying
>Nikon since 1959 when I bought my first Nikon F. In August 2004 I
>switched to digital. I now have a D70 and a D70S and sold all my old
>Nikon lenses and Nikon film cameras. I now have the Nikon: 12-24mm,
>28-200mm "G", 200mm f4 "macro", and the 80-400mm VR. The lenses are all
>superb.
>
>I don't shoot sports so have no need for a "fast" lens. When shooting
>nature, most of what I shoot these days, I shut down to a minimum of
>f5.6 so have no need for the super fast, super expensive Nikon lenses.
>
>If I were starting fresh, or if someone asks me, I would advise them to
>buy Canon. I think they are more innovative and have some great
>products - especially a super macro lens [close-up only - it won't
>focus at infinity but goes to 5X without bellows, extension tubes or
>other such artifacts and for which Nikon has nothing similar], and
>unlike the old days [1960s] make reliable products. I have never had a
>Nikon that broke except through MY misuse [dropping it in a mountain
>stream, shoving the memory card in the wrong way and bending the pins].
>
>I will buy the D200 the second it is available. The sensor technology
>and internal software algorithms just keep improving!
>
>Another horrid thing about Nikon is their idiotic policy, which MAYBE
>they are revising, where their RAW images can't be processed by
>Photoshop CS2. While there is now a fix from Adobe for the D70S, you
>may be forced to buy the absolute crap software Nikon shoves down your
>throat so you can deal with their proprietary RAW format. Grow up
>Nikon. Idiotic policies like this are partially responsible for why I
>recommend Canon for newbies. Installing the Nikon software actually
>screws up your Photoshop CS2. Shame on Nikon!!


CS2 has supported the DX2 and D70S RAW since 3.2. and the others since
3.1.

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/cameraraw.html

Nikon and Adobe have kissed and made up...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0509/05...ikon_adobe.asp


************************************************** *******

"I have been a witness, and these pictures are
my testimony. The events I have recorded should
not be forgotten and must not be repeated."

-James Nachtwey-
http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/
 
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