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Confused about color management

 
 
Artem Lipatov
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      11-26-2005
Hi everybody,

Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow? I
searched the web and the forums, but still confused...

Let's say here are the prerequisites:

- I shoot RAW
- AdobeRGB is the working profile
- I have my Monitor profile
- I have my lab printer profile
- I use Photoshop

Questions:

- When does the monitor profile come into play and what happens if I
don't use it?

- Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
last step, right?) what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
(at least roughly, I know I'm no pro and not looking to) what I get on
a print?

- What happens in case of B&W?

Thank you all

 
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Charles Schuler
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      11-26-2005

"Artem Lipatov" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> Hi everybody,
>
> Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow? I
> searched the web and the forums, but still confused...
>
> Let's say here are the prerequisites:
>
> - I shoot RAW
> - AdobeRGB is the working profile
> - I have my Monitor profile
> - I have my lab printer profile
> - I use Photoshop
>
> Questions:
>
> - When does the monitor profile come into play and what happens if I
> don't use it?
>
> - Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
> last step, right?) what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
> (at least roughly, I know I'm no pro and not looking to) what I get on
> a print?


http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/color_spaces.htm
http://www.earthboundlight.com/photo...tml?source=rss

and others. You could spend a bit of time on this


 
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Markeau
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      11-26-2005
FWIW There is a specific Adobe forum (which is also mirrored on their
own news server: adobeforums.com ) on Color Management ... it has
always provided me with a lot of info

http://adobeforums.com/


 
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Jim
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      11-26-2005

"Artem Lipatov" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> Hi everybody,
>
> Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow? I
> searched the web and the forums, but still confused...
>
> Let's say here are the prerequisites:
>
> - I shoot RAW
> - AdobeRGB is the working profile
> - I have my Monitor profile
> - I have my lab printer profile
> - I use Photoshop
>
> Questions:
>
> - When does the monitor profile come into play and what happens if I
> don't use it?

The graphics driver uses the profile to adjust the colors. If you don't
use, then what you see will not be what you get.
>
> - Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
> last step, right?) what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
> (at least roughly, I know I'm no pro and not looking to) what I get on
> a print?

Create a profile and then tell windows to use it.
Jim
>
> - What happens in case of B&W?
>
> Thank you all
>



 
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Bill Hilton
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      11-26-2005
>Artem writes ...
>
>Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow?


Yes, this site is a good start ...
http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/13605.html

> When does the monitor profile come into play


When you are viewing files in a program that supports the ICC color
management workflow. The RGB values in the file get translated on the
fly by the profile so you see the colors on screen as accurately as
possible, depending on whether colors are out of gamut for your monitor
or not (and assuming the profile is accurate). Most graphics programs,
even the cheaper ones, now recognize monitor profiles, but most web
browsers and some viewer programs (as opposed to editors) do not.

> ... and what happens if I don't use it?


The colors look different ... you can simulate this in Photoshop with
View - Proof setup - Monitor RGB, which turns off your monitor profile.
This is useful when you're having troubles matching colors you see in
Photoshop to what you want viewers to see in a non-color managed
workflow like the web. Typically the saturated colors are affected
most (at least on my monitor) and usually dull down a bit.

>Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
>last step, right?)


No, most people do NOT convert to the printer profile anymore (unless
sending the file out). A better workflow is to soft-proof to your
printer profile (View - Proof Setup and pick the printer/paper profile
from the menu) and then print with that enabled. The exact mechanics
depend on which printer you are using since the driver software menus
are different, but it's pretty simple to set it up for the Epson Photo
printers, for example.

> what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
> (at least roughly) what I get on a print?


What you are SUPPOSED to do is make the print, let it dry down (up to
24 hours for some printers) and then view it with a controlled D50
light source near the computer, checking carefully that the screen view
matches the print under these light conditions (the ambient light
striking the computer screen should be the same as when you generated
the monitor profile). What most of us do is just view the print under
typical viewing conditions instead, which isn't as rigorous. At any
rate, the main criteria is that the print matches the screen. If it
doesn't then the monitor profile could be bad or the printer profile
could be bad (or both ... or the viewing conditions are different).

> What happens in case of B&W?


Same deal, print it and compare ... a lot depends on your printer here,
are you using a color printer with all the inks (hard to get a neutral
print except on a few Epsons) or using a Quadtone type inkset or ?? A
good test is to create a gradient from black to white and print this
and see if you pick up a color cast, meaning the printer is not neutral
for b/w. With most printers you'll see a color cast, unfortunately,
typically green or magenta in part of the gradient.

Bill

 
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Father Kodak
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2005
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:52:39 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"Artem Lipatov" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message


>http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/color_spaces.htm
>http://www.earthboundlight.com/photo...tml?source=rss
>
>and others. You could spend a bit of time on this
>

Also a lot of money.

A highly recommended book is "Real World Color Management." I got my
copy from Amazon. It's not exactly light reading, but neither is this
topic.

Father Kodak
 
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kctan
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2005

"Artem Lipatov" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> Hi everybody,
>
> Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow? I
> searched the web and the forums, but still confused...
>
> Let's say here are the prerequisites:
>
> - I shoot RAW
> - AdobeRGB is the working profile
> - I have my Monitor profile
> - I have my lab printer profile
> - I use Photoshop
>
> Questions:
>
> - When does the monitor profile come into play and what happens if I
> don't use it?


Calibrated monitor analogous to calibrated light-box needed for viewing
slide for genuine color rendition by the film. A calibrated monitor profile
is needed by color management system to map the displaying colors to the
CIE*L*a*b standard colors or simply the correct colors. When you shoot in
Raw or any image that needs to do tone adjustment, don't you think the
genuine color got to be displayed first before an appropriate adjustment is
made.

Remember, calibrated monitor is for correct colors viewing only and has
nothing to do with good print; but printing profile needs the monitor
profile and several others interacting in the color management engine (CMM)
conforming to CIE*L*a*b standard.

> - Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
> last step, right?) what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
> (at least roughly, I know I'm no pro and not looking to) what I get on
> a print?


There are several ways to print that matches closely to a calibrated
monitor. The first one is to use your printer color management software but
you need to use its ink and paper for good result. In photoshop, use the
print with preview..., color management, source space:document and print
space: printer color management then proceed to print properties and select
the paper types and printing method with its color management on from the
printer software.

You could convert to paper profile but print space:same as source and
printer color management off.

Another way is the same as first method but off printer color management and
select a paper profile instead of printer color management.

> - What happens in case of B&W?


The same but in printer properties select print in B/W. Some time you may
need to increase the contrast a little.

> Thank you all
>



 
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Stacey
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-28-2005
Artem Lipatov wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow?


Sorry, I doubt anyone is interested in writing a book here to explain this.
It's not complex but would take more that anyone is going to write in a
newsgroup post to explain it all. Go to amazon.com and buy "color
confidence" by Tim Grey. Should be able to find a copy used for less than
$10 and it does a great job of explaining the basics. If $10 is too much to
spend, I'm sure there is soem decent free web advice on the subject. I
prefer reading from a book when there is this much to study rather than
trying to read a monitor.

To answer you simple questions:

- When does the monitor profile come into play and what happens if I
don't use it?

It makes the colors in the file appear correctly on your monitor. Unless
you have generated a profile for YOUR monitor using some calibration
hardware, the caned profiles included with a monitor are pretty useless.

- Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
last step, right?) what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
(at least roughly, I know I'm no pro and not looking to) what I get on
a print?

Most labs are NOT looking for a file converted to their profile, they are
looking for either an sRGB or an aRGB file. You use their profile to "soft
proof" your image in PS and look for out of gamut colors that WILL be a
problem. You convert to a printer profile when YOU are doing the printing
at home and it's easier to use some software like Qimage to deal with the
printing anyway.

Unless you understand what's going on, you can REALY get lost. People make
mistakes like double profiling (sending a file to a lab "profiled" and then
the lab profiles it again) or assigning a profile when it should be
converted etc.

- What happens in case of B&W?

??? It still has to be "profiled".

If a lab is making your prints, get something like an "eyeone" monitor
calibrator and follow the instructions. Then find out what color space the
lab wants the image in and make sure it's CONVERTED to that color space. It
easier if you shoot sRGB if the lab prints sRGB and no convertions are ever
needed. You can use their printer profile to "soft proof" in PS and check
for out of ganut colors and correct them. Then send the file to the lab
with a note "no corrections" and see what you get back. It should end up
close to what your monitor shows.

Again I'd get the above book so you actually understand what is happening
and how the human eye "resolves" color etc. It explains all about white
balance and scanner profiling etc. It will be the best $10 you've spent.


--

Stacey
 
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