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Nikon D70 issues/questions Vs. Canon

 
 
condor_222@yahoo.com
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      10-13-2005
Dear experts,

I've always used Nikon, and have a number of FE and FM
cameras, and whole bunch of fixed focal length lenses.

I took my equipment to the store the other day, and
noticed a few issues.

The focusing screen in that D70 was just a matte/Fresnel.
There was no split in the middle where you can focus
by lining up two lines together. And it's hard to tell
in the small viewfinder if the picture is in focus.

The other thing I noticed is that the viewfinder screen
is smaller. I'm older now, and it seems I need my glasses
to focus through there. And, in the catalog, there is
no diopter (?) correction for the D70. They have some
for other Nikons, but not the D70.

So, this brings up the question, if there is any
real advantage to buying a Nikon digital so that I can
use my old fixed manual focus sharp lenses, if I can't
focus them.

I could buy used Nikon autofocus lenses if I bought
the Nikon. But then I could just buy used Canon
lenses too if I bought a Canon.

I understand that Canon has brought out a newer
camera lately. Does anyone know how it compares
on these issues? Does it have a diopter? Does it
have different screens?

How does the Canon compare in any other area that
you think is significant? Advantages? Disadvantages?

Thanks a lot

 
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GTO
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      10-13-2005
> I've always used Nikon, and have a number of FE and FM
> cameras, and whole bunch of fixed focal length lenses.
>


I still use my FM from 1979. Even the MD-12 still works. A great manual
camera.

> The focusing screen in that D70 was just a matte/Fresnel.
> There was no split in the middle where you can focus
> by lining up two lines together. And it's hard to tell
> in the small viewfinder if the picture is in focus.


Manual focusing with my D70 sucks. I wish it had a decent view-finder with
exchangeable focusing screens. I can manually focus with my D70 but I had to
practice a lot.

> The other thing I noticed is that the viewfinder screen
> is smaller. I'm older now, and it seems I need my glasses
> to focus through there. And, in the catalog, there is
> no diopter (?) correction for the D70. They have some
> for other Nikons, but not the D70.


Hmm, my D70 has a diopter adjustment.

> So, this brings up the question, if there is any
> real advantage to buying a Nikon digital so that I can
> use my old fixed manual focus sharp lenses, if I can't
> focus them.


Not yet. But we are all praying that Nikon will soon notice our pleading.
But if you are in a hurry, you can always default to the slightly more
expensive D2X

> I understand that Canon has brought out a newer
> camera lately. Does anyone know how it compares
> on these issues? Does it have a diopter? Does it
> have different screens?


Get the 5D if you can part yourself from your Nikon gears. Get it and run!

>
> How does the Canon compare in any other area that
> you think is significant? Advantages? Disadvantages?
>


Regarding glass: no difference
Regarding DSLR camera body: one year ahead. No?

Gregor


 
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MarkČ
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2005
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Dear experts,
>
> I've always used Nikon, and have a number of FE and FM
> cameras, and whole bunch of fixed focal length lenses.
>
> I took my equipment to the store the other day, and
> noticed a few issues.
>
> The focusing screen in that D70 was just a matte/Fresnel.
> There was no split in the middle where you can focus
> by lining up two lines together. And it's hard to tell
> in the small viewfinder if the picture is in focus.
>
> The other thing I noticed is that the viewfinder screen
> is smaller. I'm older now, and it seems I need my glasses
> to focus through there. And, in the catalog, there is
> no diopter (?) correction for the D70. They have some
> for other Nikons, but not the D70.
>
> So, this brings up the question, if there is any
> real advantage to buying a Nikon digital so that I can
> use my old fixed manual focus sharp lenses, if I can't
> focus them.
>
> I could buy used Nikon autofocus lenses if I bought
> the Nikon. But then I could just buy used Canon
> lenses too if I bought a Canon.
>
> I understand that Canon has brought out a newer
> camera lately. Does anyone know how it compares
> on these issues? Does it have a diopter? Does it
> have different screens?
>
> How does the Canon compare in any other area that
> you think is significant? Advantages? Disadvantages?
>
> Thanks a lot


The Canon with similarly small sensors have similar issues with manual
focus...
But...
The latest from Canon is the full-frame 5D, which will have a large, bright
viewfinder, more in keeping with what you're used to. It also accepts
different screens, and has diopter adjustment.
$3K gets you 12.8 megapixels, and the above.



 
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Richard H.
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2005
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> The focusing screen in that D70 was just a matte/Fresnel.
> There was no split in the middle where you can focus
> by lining up two lines together. And it's hard to tell
> in the small viewfinder if the picture is in focus.


Bingo. Not just because it's digital - because it's auto-focus. You'll
find this with film AF cameras too. It's nearly impossible to manually
focus sharply with the current SLR focus screens.

They seem to have cut a corner here since "nobody would want to focus
manually with an AF camera". Sadly, there's not an after-market option
to add a split prism or other style of focusing screen. (If somebody
knows of one for the N80 or D70, please tell!)

This may help - it's a viewfinder magnifier for Nikons. It looks a
little goofy, but it's on my to-buy list anyway...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=37321&is=GREY
and it needs this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...u=37445&is=REG


> The other thing I noticed is that the viewfinder screen
> is smaller. I'm older now, and it seems I need my glasses
> to focus through there. And, in the catalog, there is
> no diopter (?) correction for the D70. They have some
> for other Nikons, but not the D70.


Interesting point. I hadn't noticed.

I would speculate that if the viewfinder screen is smaller, it's because
the image being cast onto the sensor / viewfinder is smaller. (Though
I'd think that should be correctable in the viewfinder regardless. Hmmm.)

If you search on "nikon diopter d70" at http://www.bhphotovideo.com, you
will see there is a full range of them. There is also a minor
adjustment built into the body. If you're fortunate not to have an
astigmatism, they will work OK; otherwise, you'll need to keep your
glasses on when shooting.


> I could buy used Nikon autofocus lenses if I bought
> the Nikon. But then I could just buy used Canon
> lenses too if I bought a Canon.


Very true.

Ironically, some of Nikon's very good lenses are manual-focus only, such
as their 50mm f/1.2.


> How does the Canon compare in any other area that
> you think is significant? Advantages? Disadvantages?


Let the religious battles begin.

After much debate, it's usually apparent that both are excellent
systems. Canon seems to lead in some areas, and Nikon in others.

Aside from the obvious things like lens selection available, look at
subtler things too like compression tech (number of images per MB),
battery life, continuous rate buffer sizes, etc.

Cheers,
Richard
 
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Mike Warren
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2005
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Dear experts,


Not me, but I'll answer anyway.

> The focusing screen in that D70 was just a matte/Fresnel.
> There was no split in the middle where you can focus
> by lining up two lines together. And it's hard to tell
> in the small viewfinder if the picture is in focus.


Yes, Manual focus is more difficult on most dSLRs. The
full frame ones would be better since the focus screen is
bigger.

There are after-market focus screens available for some
dSLRs. I don't have any personal experience though.

> And, in the catalog, there is no diopter (?) correction
> for the D70. They have some for other Nikons, but
> not the D70.


The D70/D70s and D50 all have viewfinder diopter adjustment.
It's under the left side of the eye cup.

--
Mike Warren
My web gallery: http://web.aanet.com.au/miwa/mike


 
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Wayne
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
>And, in the catalog, there is
>no diopter (?) correction for the D70. They have some
>for other Nikons, but not the D70.



The D70 has a small slider on the right side of its eyepiece, allowing
small adjustment from -1.6 to +0.5 diopter.

There are also optional stronger replacement eyepieces listed in the
Accessories section of the D70 web page at www.nikonusa.com. The
builtin slider still works to modify those lens by -1.6 to +0.5.

 
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Richard H.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2005
MarkČ wrote:
> The latest from Canon is the full-frame 5D, which will have a large, bright
> viewfinder, more in keeping with what you're used to. It also accepts
> different screens, and has diopter adjustment.
> $3K gets you 12.8 megapixels, and the above.


A friend and I were debating the longevity of "digital"-specific lenses.
He made an interesting observation about the prospect of full-frame
CCD sensors becoming the new trend...

* With the smaller sensors, we're "beyond" the resolution of the mass
market needs, even at 6 or 8MP. (i.e., it's good enough for most 35mm
purposes, and while consumers may ask for higher resolution, there
aren't enough willing to pay for it.)

* The pros need higher-res imaging, but they can just as easily switch
to a medium-format body with a digital back and bear the cost of a
really expensive sensor. (i.e., there's already a solution for this
market segment)

* At a manufacturing level, full-frame sensors will always be more
expensive to make because they have a higher probability of defects and
fewer of them fit on a manufacturing wafer (more scrap material, lower #
units per batch, & higher defect rate).

* "Digital" format lenses are cheaper to produce (and sell), and can be
smaller and lighter because they require less glass for the same result.

Looking at the above if I were a camera manufacturer, I'd be focusing on
increasing resolution by improving density of the smaller sensors at the
same / less cost, not on physically increasing the size of the sensor.

It'll be very interesting to see if Canon's 5D is setting a new trend,
or a short-lived idea.

Cheers,
Richard
 
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Nikon User
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2005
In article <434de722$0$62661$(E-Mail Removed) ws.net>,
"Mike Warren" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Yes, Manual focus is more difficult on most dSLRs. The full frame
> ones would be better since the focus screen is bigger.


It's the same thing with 35MM autofocus cameras. The N8008s doesn't
have a split image device either.
 
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MarkČ
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2005
Richard H. wrote:
> MarkČ wrote:
>> The latest from Canon is the full-frame 5D, which will have a large,
>> bright viewfinder, more in keeping with what you're used to. It
>> also accepts different screens, and has diopter adjustment.
>> $3K gets you 12.8 megapixels, and the above.

>
> A friend and I were debating the longevity of "digital"-specific
> lenses. He made an interesting observation about the prospect of
> full-frame CCD sensors becoming the new trend...
>
> * With the smaller sensors, we're "beyond" the resolution of the mass
> market needs, even at 6 or 8MP. (i.e., it's good enough for most 35mm
> purposes, and while consumers may ask for higher resolution, there
> aren't enough willing to pay for it.)
>
> * The pros need higher-res imaging, but they can just as easily switch
> to a medium-format body with a digital back and bear the cost of a
> really expensive sensor. (i.e., there's already a solution for this
> market segment)
>
> * At a manufacturing level, full-frame sensors will always be more
> expensive to make because they have a higher probability of defects
> and fewer of them fit on a manufacturing wafer (more scrap material,
> lower # units per batch, & higher defect rate).
>
> * "Digital" format lenses are cheaper to produce (and sell), and can
> be smaller and lighter because they require less glass for the same
> result.
> Looking at the above if I were a camera manufacturer, I'd be focusing
> on increasing resolution by improving density of the smaller sensors
> at the same / less cost, not on physically increasing the size of the
> sensor.
> It'll be very interesting to see if Canon's 5D is setting a new trend,
> or a short-lived idea.
>
> Cheers,
> Richard


At this point, the 5D isn't for the masses. A quickie indicator of this is
its lack of built-in flash. This is for people who wouldn't likely neither
want/need nor be satisfied with the pop-gun sized built-in flash. It is for
serious photographers who want their wide angle lenses to work...and who
want the high res of 12.8MP without sacrificing quality to noise. They have
also indicated a plan to keep both the 1.6 crop-factor sensor range, and the
full frame sizes in the future.

The other side of the business coin you describe above is this:
Canon makes most of their money from the sale of lenses. As sensors grow
both in size and pixel density, we are quickly reaching a point where lens
quality is paramount. Sensors are now capable of revealing lens' optical
flaws. From a marketing standpoint, this could be good for Canon, since it
would then "justify" the purchase of their highest quality (and, by far,
their highest priced) lenses. It is already happening. More and more
advanced amateurs seem to be gravitating toward larger, faster, more
expesnive glass. This is where Canon will make a mint. If they were to
limit themselves to small sensors (which also lead to lower threshholds for
noise), they'd only be inviting lesser lens manufacturers to nab their cash
cow (lenses), since everyone could churn out small-sensor-optimized lenses.

I think Canon is not only on the right track business-wise, but they are
also in a position of command in terms of utilizing the larger sensor's
capacity for high-res/low-noise imaging.

-Mark


 
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DD (Rox)
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-13-2005
In article <Pmm3f.1415$UF4.617@fed1read02>, "MarkČ" <mjmorgan(lowest
even number here)@cox..net> says...
> At this point, the 5D isn't for the masses. A quickie indicator of this is
> its lack of built-in flash. This is for people who wouldn't likely neither
> want/need nor be satisfied with the pop-gun sized built-in flash. It is for
> serious photographers who want their wide angle lenses to work...and who
> want the high res of 12.8MP without sacrificing quality to noise. They have
> also indicated a plan to keep both the 1.6 crop-factor sensor range, and the
> full frame sizes in the future.


Well, here's something for you to chew on: on Friday last week I popped
into one of the local photographic shops and I was fiddling around with
the 5D, chatting to the manager. I asked him how much interest he had in
the camera and he said that he had taken about 10 orders for it, but
amazingly all of them were from people who were not regular
photographers. They were mostly rich folks who had bought the camera
(with one of the crappy kit lenses) because it was the newest thing and
they had to had it.

> The other side of the business coin you describe above is this:
> Canon makes most of their money from the sale of lenses.


I disagree. Most of their money comes from selling office equipment and
supplies. On the imaging side the bulk of the revenue that funds their
operation is made from P&S digital cameras.

--
DD (everything is temporary)
www.dallasdahms.com
 
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