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Wanted: advice on monitor for photo editing.

 
 
iwoggy64@yahoo.com
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      09-19-2005
I'm in dire need of a new faster computer for digital photo work.
I was planning on getting a PowerMac G5 ( but now I'm hearing
rumors of new systems coming out soon, so I may wait a month or so ).
I'm not so concerned about the computer itself, but of the monitor.
I'd like to get a large LCD about 23" or so. I've seen the Apple
monitor at the Apple store and it looks much nicer that my current CRT.
I'm a bit concerned about the price. Also I would save about $370
in sales tax ( for the complete system ) if I mail order, but I am
worried about bad pixels on the display. Are there other users of this
display that can comment on bad pixels? Dell has some interesting
options. Their 2405FPW is about $500 less and it's about an inch
bigger. Can anyone with first hand experience with this display
comment on it? I would like to skip CRTs because of space
requirements. What other displays do others recommend? Any advice
would be appreciated. Thanks.


Woggy

 
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C Wright
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      09-19-2005
On 9/19/05 12:47 PM, in article
(E-Mail Removed). com, "(E-Mail Removed)"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I'm in dire need of a new faster computer for digital photo work.
> I was planning on getting a PowerMac G5 ( but now I'm hearing
> rumors of new systems coming out soon, so I may wait a month or so ).
> I'm not so concerned about the computer itself, but of the monitor.
> I'd like to get a large LCD about 23" or so. I've seen the Apple
> monitor at the Apple store and it looks much nicer that my current CRT.
> I'm a bit concerned about the price. Also I would save about $370
> in sales tax ( for the complete system ) if I mail order, but I am
> worried about bad pixels on the display. Are there other users of this
> display that can comment on bad pixels? Dell has some interesting
> options. Their 2405FPW is about $500 less and it's about an inch
> bigger. Can anyone with first hand experience with this display
> comment on it? I would like to skip CRTs because of space
> requirements. What other displays do others recommend? Any advice
> would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
>
> Woggy
>


I have an Apple 23 in. HD LCD display and it has zero bad pixels that I have
observed. Of course that is one display and is no guarantee of the quality
of a display that you might purchase. I would recommend you purchase from a
dealer with a good return policy so that you can return any display with
which you are dissatisfied. As far as Apple warrantee policy is concerned
they will not replace monitors with just a few bad pixels. That is why I
say (specially if you are fussy) that a purchase from a dealer with a great
return policy is a good idea. I am not sure exactly what the policy of
Apple's stores is, that is if they will take back a monitor that you are
dissatisfied with or if they use the same rules as Apple's warrantee.
Chuck


 
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Peter
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      09-19-2005
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> I'm in dire need of a new faster computer for digital photo work.
> I was planning on getting a PowerMac G5 ( but now I'm hearing
> rumors of new systems coming out soon, so I may wait a month or so ).
> I'm not so concerned about the computer itself, but of the monitor.
> I'd like to get a large LCD about 23" or so. I've seen the Apple
> monitor at the Apple store and it looks much nicer that my current CRT.
> I'm a bit concerned about the price. Also I would save about $370
> in sales tax ( for the complete system ) if I mail order, but I am
> worried about bad pixels on the display. Are there other users of this
> display that can comment on bad pixels? Dell has some interesting
> options. Their 2405FPW is about $500 less and it's about an inch
> bigger. Can anyone with first hand experience with this display
> comment on it? I would like to skip CRTs because of space
> requirements. What other displays do others recommend? Any advice
> would be appreciated. Thanks.


If cost is a concern at all, an LCD monitor is the last thing you
should buy. You'll get 2, maybe 3 years tops before the
backlight has faded to a point where it's essentially useless for
graphic editing.

Unless you have the budget to replace them every few years,
the only thing dumber than buying an LCD is buying an
expensive LCD.

22" CRTs are going for dirt cheap these days and you'll get
at least 4-5 years out of them, probably more.


 
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Gnarlodious
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      09-19-2005
Entity Peter spoke thus:

>> I am
>> worried about bad pixels on the display. Are there other users of this
>> display that can comment on bad pixels?

I have had the ADC flat panel for 5 years and abused it unbelievably and it
has never had a bad pixel.

>> Dell has some interesting
>> options. Their 2405FPW is about $500 less and it's about an inch
>> bigger. Can anyone with first hand experience with this display
>> comment on it?

You're not going to have software control over the display with a Dell LCD.
By that I mean brightness control, resolution, color profiles, etc.

>> What other displays do others recommend? Any advice
>> would be appreciated. Thanks.

The Sony X-Brite SDM-HS95P is pretty unusual, it has amazing brightness for
an LCD and an antiglare surface. Still, it's only a VGA interface.

> If cost is a concern at all, an LCD monitor is the last thing you
> should buy. You'll get 2, maybe 3 years tops before the
> backlight has faded to a point where it's essentially useless for
> graphic editing.

What? I am using the very first LCD Apple sold and it is as bright as the
day I bought it after 5 years.

> Unless you have the budget to replace them every few years,
> the only thing dumber than buying an LCD is buying an
> expensive LCD.

What kind of advice is this? There is nothing "dumb" about buying a good
LCD.

> 22" CRTs are going for dirt cheap these days and you'll get
> at least 4-5 years out of them, probably more.

That may be true initially, but then you have huge power consumption, heat
radiation, lack of software control, eye fatigue from electron bombardment,
a huge footprint and other limitation's I'm tired of mentioning.

-- Gnarlie

 
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Peter
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      09-19-2005
"Gnarlodious" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:BF549F0D.132EF%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Entity Peter spoke thus:
> > If cost is a concern at all, an LCD monitor is the last thing you
> > should buy. You'll get 2, maybe 3 years tops before the
> > backlight has faded to a point where it's essentially useless for
> > graphic editing.

> What? I am using the very first LCD Apple sold and it is as bright as the
> day I bought it after 5 years.


No it isn't. That's a physical impossibility. No one has yet
developed a fluorescent bulb that maintains the same brightness
for 2 years, let alone 5. Fluorescent bulbs lose 50% of their
brightness within the first 3 years, and if you try and color
correct an image with lots of near blacks you'll see this for
yourself.

> > Unless you have the budget to replace them every few years,
> > the only thing dumber than buying an LCD is buying an
> > expensive LCD.

> What kind of advice is this? There is nothing "dumb" about buying a good
> LCD.


Until LED technology is ready for prime time, yeah it is dumb.
LCDs are great for text work, or for non-critical image editing.

> > 22" CRTs are going for dirt cheap these days and you'll get
> > at least 4-5 years out of them, probably more.

> That may be true initially, but then you have huge power consumption, heat
> radiation, lack of software control, eye fatigue from electron bombardment,
> a huge footprint and other limitation's I'm tired of mentioning.


Lack of software control? Get real. A CRT supports any
number of resolutions, refresh rates etc, not to mention their
wider color gamut (at least on decent models).


 
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Troubled Tony
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      09-19-2005
Gnarlodious <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Entity Peter spoke thus:
>
> > 22" CRTs are going for dirt cheap these days and you'll get
> > at least 4-5 years out of them, probably more.

> That may be true initially, but then you have huge power consumption, heat
> radiation, lack of software control, eye fatigue from electron bombardment,
> a huge footprint and other limitation's I'm tired of mentioning.


And yet that is my recommendation too: get a pair of CRTs.

I have two black Samsung SyncMaster 1100DFs.

The resolution is higher than the Apple LCD screens, and it is a
crapshoot regarding LCD pixel anomalies.

Last I looked, Apple added an industry spec for pixel anomalies to
its listing of its CRTs, but that spec also says Apple is supposed
to state the exact pixel bummer acceptability details, yet Apple
doesn't. Nor will Apple talk to you about it in email.

That's how I ended up with CRTs instead of Apple LCDs, and I'm
glad I did.
 
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nospam
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      09-19-2005
In article <4FHXe.1000$(E-Mail Removed) t>, Peter
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > What? I am using the very first LCD Apple sold and it is as bright as the
> > day I bought it after 5 years.


> No it isn't. That's a physical impossibility. No one has yet
> developed a fluorescent bulb that maintains the same brightness
> for 2 years, let alone 5. Fluorescent bulbs lose 50% of their
> brightness within the first 3 years, and if you try and color
> correct an image with lots of near blacks you'll see this for
> yourself.


nobody has made a monitor that doesn't fade either. after a couple of
years, monitors are no longer suitable for critical color work. in
many cases, they become impossible to calibrate because the monitor
cannot be adjusted to compensate for the changes. monitors also drift
during normal operation which is why it is recommended to let a monitor
'warm up' for an hour or so before attempting to do a calibration.

> Until LED technology is ready for prime time, yeah it is dumb.
> LCDs are great for text work, or for non-critical image editing.


totally false.

> Lack of software control? Get real. A CRT supports any
> number of resolutions, refresh rates etc, not to mention their
> wider color gamut (at least on decent models).


why would one want a lower resolution than the maximum? might as well
buy a lower resolution monitor and save money. in any event, current
professional lcd monitors are excellent and your claims that lcds are
less capable are representative of older and/or budget lcds.
 
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Peter
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      09-20-2005
"nospam" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:190920051641592138%(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <4FHXe.1000$(E-Mail Removed) t>, Peter
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > > What? I am using the very first LCD Apple sold and it is as bright as the
> > > day I bought it after 5 years.

>
> > No it isn't. That's a physical impossibility. No one has yet
> > developed a fluorescent bulb that maintains the same brightness
> > for 2 years, let alone 5. Fluorescent bulbs lose 50% of their
> > brightness within the first 3 years, and if you try and color
> > correct an image with lots of near blacks you'll see this for
> > yourself.

>
> nobody has made a monitor that doesn't fade either. after a couple of
> years, monitors are no longer suitable for critical color work.


That last part is absolute nonsense. I routinely see 6, 7 and 8
year-old Diamondtrons and Trinitrons whicht are still perfectly
calibrated and still have perfectly usable gamut range. Tubes do
fade, but the curve is much, much less pronounced than LCD
backlights.

> in
> many cases, they become impossible to calibrate because the monitor
> cannot be adjusted to compensate for the changes. monitors also drift
> during normal operation which is why it is recommended to let a monitor
> 'warm up' for an hour or so before attempting to do a calibration.


True for low-end CRTs, not for decent CRTs.

> > Until LED technology is ready for prime time, yeah it is dumb.
> > LCDs are great for text work, or for non-critical image editing.

>
> totally false.
>
> > Lack of software control? Get real. A CRT supports any
> > number of resolutions, refresh rates etc, not to mention their
> > wider color gamut (at least on decent models).

>
> why would one want a lower resolution than the maximum?


Huh? When you can put your LCD into 2048x1536 mode to
properly preview page layouts, or reduce it to 800x600 to
maximize DVD playback screens, or any one of 1000 other
cases where resolution changes are useful, please let us know.

> might as well
> buy a lower resolution monitor and save money. in any event, current
> professional lcd monitors are excellent and your claims that lcds are
> less capable are representative of older and/or budget lcds.


Nope. You'll need to spend 3-4x as much to get equivalent
performance out of the box as a good $700 Diamondtron CRT.
And that's not even taking into account the backlight fading over
time.


 
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C Wright
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      09-20-2005
On 9/19/05 7:12 PM, in article
4uIXe.1037$(E-Mail Removed) , "Peter"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>> might as well
>> buy a lower resolution monitor and save money. in any event, current
>> professional lcd monitors are excellent and your claims that lcds are
>> less capable are representative of older and/or budget lcds.

>
> Nope. You'll need to spend 3-4x as much to get equivalent
> performance out of the box as a good $700 Diamondtron CRT.
> And that's not even taking into account the backlight fading over
> time.
>
>

And the debate rages on . . .!! If one reads the archives of some of the
graphics/photography/Photoshop groups, where some folks make a living doing
critical photo work, you will find continuing arguments regarding CRT's vs.
LCD's. However, most (and I emphasize most - not all) believe that the high
end LCD's are now every bit the match for CRT's. Cheap LCD's are another
matter!

 
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G.T.
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-20-2005

"C Wright" <wright9_nojunk@nojunk_mac.com> wrote in message
news:BF54C9D7.3C743%wright9_nojunk@nojunk_mac.com. ..
> On 9/19/05 7:12 PM, in article
> 4uIXe.1037$(E-Mail Removed) , "Peter"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
> >> might as well
> >> buy a lower resolution monitor and save money. in any event, current
> >> professional lcd monitors are excellent and your claims that lcds are
> >> less capable are representative of older and/or budget lcds.

> >
> > Nope. You'll need to spend 3-4x as much to get equivalent
> > performance out of the box as a good $700 Diamondtron CRT.
> > And that's not even taking into account the backlight fading over
> > time.
> >
> >

> And the debate rages on . . .!! If one reads the archives of some of the
> graphics/photography/Photoshop groups, where some folks make a living

doing
> critical photo work, you will find continuing arguments regarding CRT's

vs.
> LCD's. However, most (and I emphasize most - not all) believe that the

high
> end LCD's are now every bit the match for CRT's.


Except for this part of Peter's last post:

"Huh? When you can put your LCD into 2048x1536 mode to
properly preview page layouts, or reduce it to 800x600 to
maximize DVD playback screens, or any one of 1000 other
cases where resolution changes are useful, please let us know."

Greg



 
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