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A Battery Warning query

 
 
Larry
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      08-23-2005
I have recently purchased a vertical hold "grip" for my Canon Élan II
camera. It also can hold AA batteries to replace the regular 6-V Lithium
normal grip battery. It came with a warning to use Alkaline batteries only,
NOT Lithium AA cells as camera damage might result. How/why?

Thanks,
Larry

 
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Joseph Meehan
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      08-23-2005
Larry wrote:
>I have recently purchased a vertical hold "grip" for my Canon Élan II
> camera. It also can hold AA batteries to replace the regular 6-V
> Lithium normal grip battery. It came with a warning to use Alkaline
> batteries only, NOT Lithium AA cells as camera damage might result.
> How/why?
> Thanks,
> Larry


I can only guess, but I would guess the lithium batteries may be able to
deliver a higher voltage-amps and that could overheat a part in the camera.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit


 
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Dave Cohen
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      08-23-2005

"Joseph Meehan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:laFOe.9535$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Larry wrote:
>>I have recently purchased a vertical hold "grip" for my Canon Élan II
>> camera. It also can hold AA batteries to replace the regular 6-V
>> Lithium normal grip battery. It came with a warning to use Alkaline
>> batteries only, NOT Lithium AA cells as camera damage might result.
>> How/why?
>> Thanks,
>> Larry

>
> I can only guess, but I would guess the lithium batteries may be able
> to deliver a higher voltage-amps and that could overheat a part in the
> camera.
>
>
> --
> Joseph Meehan
>
> Dia duit

Same warning with my canon A40, but can't find anything in my A95 manual.
Mute point since NiMH are the obvious choice. I agree must be a voltage
thing.
Dave Cohen


 
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Joel Dorfan
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      08-23-2005
There is no reason why you should not be able to use Lithium cells. The
voltage is the same as Alkalines just better extreme temp. performance,
different discharge characteristics and a 15 year shelf life.

The 2CR5 or 223 that you are replacing is already a Lithium pack made up of
lithium cells.

LiIon's if you could get them in that size would be bad as they are
nominally 3.6v per cell.

However as a previous poster said, the better choice would be to use NiMh
rechargeables, four in the camera, four in the charger and 4 alkalines as
backup.

Joel

"Larry" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:430b194a$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I have recently purchased a vertical hold "grip" for my Canon Élan II
> camera. It also can hold AA batteries to replace the regular 6-V Lithium
> normal grip battery. It came with a warning to use Alkaline batteries

only,
> NOT Lithium AA cells as camera damage might result. How/why?
>
> Thanks,
> Larry
>



 
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Joseph Meehan
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      08-23-2005
Joel Dorfan wrote:
> There is no reason why you should not be able to use Lithium cells.
> The voltage is the same as Alkalines


Nominal or operating voltage. I suspect the Lithiums go out of spec
when in use.

> just better extreme temp.
> performance, different discharge characteristics and a 15 year shelf
> life.
>
> The 2CR5 or 223 that you are replacing is already a Lithium pack made
> up of lithium cells.
>
> LiIon's if you could get them in that size would be bad as they are
> nominally 3.6v per cell.
>
> However as a previous poster said, the better choice would be to use
> NiMh rechargeables, four in the camera, four in the charger and 4
> alkalines as backup.
>
> Joel
>
> "Larry" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:430b194a$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I have recently purchased a vertical hold "grip" for my Canon Élan II
>> camera. It also can hold AA batteries to replace the regular 6-V
>> Lithium normal grip battery. It came with a warning to use Alkaline
>> batteries only, NOT Lithium AA cells as camera damage might result.
>> How/why?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Larry


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit


 
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ASAAR
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      08-23-2005
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:24:02 GMT, Joseph Meehan wrote:

>> There is no reason why you should not be able to use Lithium cells.
>> The voltage is the same as Alkalines

>
> Nominal or operating voltage. I suspect the Lithiums go out of spec
> when in use.


Is the problem really with lithium AAs? I thought that there has
long been a specially formulated high performance alkaline battery
whose voltage was about 10% higher than standard alkalines. Maybe
they're the ones with the "Titanium" description on the package.

 
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Dave Cohen
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      08-23-2005

"ASAAR" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:24:02 GMT, Joseph Meehan wrote:
>
>>> There is no reason why you should not be able to use Lithium cells.
>>> The voltage is the same as Alkalines

>>
>> Nominal or operating voltage. I suspect the Lithiums go out of spec
>> when in use.

>
> Is the problem really with lithium AAs? I thought that there has
> long been a specially formulated high performance alkaline battery
> whose voltage was about 10% higher than standard alkalines. Maybe
> they're the ones with the "Titanium" description on the package.
>

Not quite true to say lithium and alkaline would display same working
voltage. Open circuit voltage may be same, but higher internal resistance of
the alkaline would present less than 6 volts to camera when drawing current.
Dave Cohen


 
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ASAAR
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      08-23-2005
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 23:16:43 GMT, Dave Cohen wrote:

>> Is the problem really with lithium AAs? I thought that there has
>> long been a specially formulated high performance alkaline battery
>> whose voltage was about 10% higher than standard alkalines. Maybe
>> they're the ones with the "Titanium" description on the package.
>>

> Not quite true to say lithium and alkaline would display same working
> voltage. Open circuit voltage may be same, but higher internal resistance of
> the alkaline would present less than 6 volts to camera when drawing current.


Where did you see me say that? What I said has nothing to do with
a working voltage. It's true that in a digital camera the working
voltage of alkalines will dip lower while the camera is busy,
zooming the lens, capturing the image, recharging the flash, etc.
Lithium's would also show a voltage drop under those conditions.
But what might be bad for the camera occurs when the current draw is
minimal, with the camera on, display off, etc. Then the "working
voltage" of both battery types would be nearest to their "no load"
voltages and differences would be minimal. But if batteries that
have voltages measurably higher than the approx. 1.5v of standard
alkalines are used, they could present problems. If they're used
for a while in a radio or tape player so that their load under low
current draws results in a voltage below 1.5v, they should then be
safe to use in the camera. There have been some cameras (such as in
one older model reported by a Kodak user) where the manual stated
that only NiMH batteries should be used, as standard alkalines might
cause damage.

 
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Morton Linder
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      08-23-2005
Larry wrote:

> I have recently purchased a vertical hold "grip" for my Canon Élan II
> camera. It also can hold AA batteries to replace the regular 6-V Lithium
> normal grip battery. It came with a warning to use Alkaline batteries
> only, NOT Lithium AA cells as camera damage might result. How/why?
>
> Thanks,
> Larry

An earlier discussion of Lithium AA cells regarding film cameras a few
years ago revealed that, due to lower internal resistance, Li cells can
deliver a higher current flow (same voltage) which can heat up and
destroy some sensitive electronic components.
IMHO, Li AA cells have almost no place in photography; they are 10x more
expensive than alkalines and give only 2-3x the number of pictures per cell.

Morton
 
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ASAAR
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      08-24-2005
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:57:27 -0400, Morton Linder wrote:

> An earlier discussion of Lithium AA cells regarding film cameras a few
> years ago revealed that, due to lower internal resistance, Li cells can
> deliver a higher current flow (same voltage) which can heat up and
> destroy some sensitive electronic components.


Absolutely not true. At a given voltage (under load), the camera
will draw the same current, whether the source is alkaline or
lithium, whether they are AAA, AA, C or D cells. Under load, the
voltage delivered by fresh alkaline batteries is not substantially
higher than that of lithium batteries, but in any case the high
current draw isn't continuous. The components that might get
excessively warm or hot would be batteries, flash tubes and the
power supply used to charge the flash's capacitors. Operating
cameras in high temperatures would probably be worse, but except for
the usual fine print disclaimers at the back of manuals where
operating environment parameters are listed, manufacturers rarely go
out of their way to warn about the effects of heat.


> IMHO, Li AA cells have almost no place in photography; they are 10x more
> expensive than alkalines and give only 2-3x the number of pictures per cell.


They do have a place in photography. With modern cameras that
don't consume huge currents, they might provide only 2 to 3 times
longer operating life. But with older, power hungry cameras they
can provide more than 10x the life of alkalines. They're also the
only battery type available for cameras that don't suffer tremendous
performance loss in very cold weather. They're also about 10x more
expensive than alkalines only for those that shop carefully. With
the prices most people pay for alkaline batteries, they're more like
3 to 6 times more expensive, not 10x.

Another advantage I haven't heard mentioned concerns battery
leakage. I don't know if lithium batteries can leak, and if they do
how corrosive it might be. What I do know is that any camera or
other electrical device that uses alkalines is checked by me at
least several times/year for leakage. But I have a very old, rarely
used Stylus (film camera) that is powered by a lithium battery. It
still provides lots of power and has been in the camera so long I no
longer remember when it was last changed. At least 10 years ago.
And I don't check the battery in that one more frequently than every
4 or 5 years or so.

 
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