«

"David J. Littleboy" <> wrote in message
news:ddu0fr$p9$...
>
> "Brian Baird" <> wrote:
>>
>> While I think full-frame might make a larger presence in the market, I
>> feel cropped sensors will always be around because they are a lot
>> cheaper to make. We'll see 8 megapixel DSLRs going to $350 one of these
>> days, and they certainly are going to be 1.5x or 1.6x sensors.
>
> Also, (1) 8MP is as good as (ISO 100) or better than (ISO 200 and above)
> 35mm film, and 35mm film has been good enough for the vast majority of
> 20th century photography, and (2) the boost you get on your telephotos is
> appreciated by the vast majority of amateur photographers.
>
Actually 35mm wasn't that hot in the 20th Century. Kodacolor X (ASA 80) in
the early 1970's was pretty poor. I recall seeing a few printed 8x10" and
they looked like colour confetti. 35mm improved during the 1980-90's to the
quality it is today. I have seen 6 mp enlarged in good quality so I agree
with you on the comparison. High quality lenses are still the most important
part of the equation!

> There's really no need for full frame or more than 8MP unless one has
> pretensions at competing with the MF types in the art galleries, or at
> least producing prints of that caliber. For the vast majority of uses, 8MP
> is fine.
>
Cameras like the Canon 1Ds mk.II are professional tools, well suited for
studio work. But the APS-C dSLR cameras are better suited for the average
hobby shooter. If a hobbiest can buy and use a higher priced camera to it's
full advantage, I won't deny him the pleasure of buying the best tools he
can afford.

"Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
news:GcvMe.2784$ct5.2638@fed1read04...
>
> "Darrell" <> wrote in message
> news:vfKdnVZGPfF-4J_eRVn-...
>>
>> "Name Deleted" wrote in message
>> news:430263ef$0$1182$. ..
>>> Dirty Harry wrote:
>>>> Hmm glad I just spent 600 bucks on this efs 17-85 IS...not. Should I
>>>> try and dump it off asap...the value is going to go straight down the
>>>> shitter now, no?
>>>
>> Sounds like a measurebator! Suddenly all my toys are crap because of a
>> maybe camera coming out sometime in the future. These are the people
>> Canon's marketing people love. They proclaim "Thou must buy a new dSLR
>> every year..." Hell Canon is still trying to get the bugs worked out of
>> the 20D...
>>
>> MicroSoft would be proud!
>
> I might agree with you in other cases, but I think this camera is
> diferent.
> Many folks have wished for an affordable full frame for a LONG
> time--myself included.
> Others have wished for pixel counts that would allow less reliance on
> stitching (me too) of large scenics. I didn't upgrade my D30 until it was
> utterly destroyed.
> -See this lovely evidence:
> http://www.pbase.com/markuson/image/37396350
>
> I haven't upgraded my 10D, as I've been waiting until I could afford at
> *least* double the res, and *hoped* for a full frame so that my 16-35
> behaved like a proper ultra-wide. Instead, I've built a lens system that
> will thrive on an eventual full-frame body.
>
> I know I'm only one sample...but I am certain there are many people like
> me for whom the 5D makes a great deal of sense.
>
I have shot medium and large format, so I can agree with the quest for image
quality. Everyone has been jumping up and down on what, at this time is a
unverified rumour. I would like to see better image quality, with better
dynamic range. The current APS-C sensors have enough resolution to go to
16x20" I bought the DA Pentax 14/2.8 as I would have missed my 20mm
coverage. The Canon 10~22, Tamron 11~18 can fill that void for the time
being.

I will watch for the announcements on the 22-23. I expect Nikon will also
announce the D200 then, but Pentax won't announce any new dSLR until PMA in
February, there will be 2 Pentax dSLR, and some new lenses.

"Brian" <> wrote in news:1124232445.653277.288010
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> I think only the EF-S lenses would be unusable on the 5d, based on the
> specs - if all the EF-S lenses became worthless (unlikely) you would
> only have to throw away your kit lens. Someone else can correct me, I
> may be wrong, but that's my understanding at this point.

You are essentially right except fro throwing away the kit lens.

If someone owns a 20D + kit lens + EF lenses and they wish to upgrade to a
new FF or 1.3x Canon D-SLR then they either:

1. Keep the 20D as backup body and keep the kit lens.

Or

2. Sell the 20D with kit lens.

Either way the kit lens still works well with the 20D, so no need to throw
it away.


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 16-August-05)
"There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't"

"Dirty Harry" <> wrote in message
news1tMe.228703$s54.65445@pd7tw2no...
> Hmm glad I just spent 600 bucks on this efs 17-85 IS...not. Should I try
> and dump it off asap...the value is going to go straight down the shitter
> now, no?
>
>

What makes you say that? Unless you're absolutely certain you need full
frame, there's no need to dump EF-S lenses. Besides, the 5D is NOT an
upgrade to the 20D. The 20D and Digital Rebel XT lines will continue so
EF-S lenses should hold their value just fine.

Mark

"Mark B." <> wrote in message
news72dnZ2dnZ1WiD-QnZ2dnR4Hn96dnZ2dRVn-...
> "Dirty Harry" <> wrote in message
> news1tMe.228703$s54.65445@pd7tw2no...
> > Hmm glad I just spent 600 bucks on this efs 17-85 IS...not. Should I
try
> > and dump it off asap...the value is going to go straight down the
shitter
> > now, no?
> >
> >
>
> What makes you say that? Unless you're absolutely certain you need full
> frame, there's no need to dump EF-S lenses. Besides, the 5D is NOT an
> upgrade to the 20D. The 20D and Digital Rebel XT lines will continue so
> EF-S lenses should hold their value just fine.
>
> Mark


Alright I guess I jumped the gun on this one. I was thinking I should get
rid of the 17-85IS and get the 28-135IS and then a wide angle full frame
lens. The efs lens really blows at 17mm.

You have somewhat of a point. I have a 20D and had on order the 10-22
EFS. I found out about the 5D coming out and immediately cancelled my
order! I must at least wait to see what the reality of the '5D' will
be. We dont' really know for sure, especially the price. Will it really
by $3500 or maybe Canon won't want to 'step on the toes' of its
'professional' bodies and may go lower in price to avoid this (perhaps
<$3k). Remember, Kodak had full framers selling for $3500 to $4k for
the past few years!
Maybe Canon will surprise us with an 'offer we can't refuse'

"RON" <> wrote in message
news:EJ-dnbdg3Jz69Z_eRVn-...
> Ok now you have me scared. I have just bought a Canon 20D with the kit
> lens ( EF-S 18-55 MM ) . I am thinking of buying the following two lens.
>
> ( 1 ) Zoom Wide Angle-Telephoto EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM Autofocus Lens .
>
> (2 ) Zoom Telephoto EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS Image Stabilizer USM Autofocus
> Lens
>
> As you can see this a heavy investment and makes me wonder if I can use
> the lenses on the 5D if and when it comes out.
> Any input would be helpful
>
> Thanks
> Ron.
>
>

Believe me, you can. Both lenses you mention date from film cameras, though
the 24-70 overlaps into digital usage. They are both "L" lenses, and will
cover full frame nicely, as will any EF mount lens, as opposed to EF-S mount
lenses like your 18-55.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"Brian Baird" <> wrote in message
news:.. .
> In article <6UuMe.1116$sw6.576@fed1read05>,
> says...
>> "Dirty Harry" <> wrote in message
>> news1tMe.228703$s54.65445@pd7tw2no...
>> > Hmm glad I just spent 600 bucks on this efs 17-85 IS...not. Should I
>> > try
>> > and dump it off asap...the value is going to go straight down the
>> > shitter
>> > now, no?
>> >
>> >
>> No, because Canon will continue to build 1.6x bodies for the time being.
>> Canon execs have said that they envision a two tiered digital camera
>> line,
>> 1.6x and full frame.
>> For crying out loud, you're in a panic because a $3500 dollar camera may
>> be
>> coming to market. It will not affect sales of the sub 1K Rebels, nor
>> will
>> it affect greatly the sales of the $1500 20D and its successor.
>
> While I think full-frame might make a larger presence in the market, I
> feel cropped sensors will always be around because they are a lot
> cheaper to make. We'll see 8 megapixel DSLRs going to $350 one of these
> days, and they certainly are going to be 1.5x or 1.6x sensors.
> --
> http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird

I think so, too...

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"David J. Littleboy" <> wrote in message
news:ddu0fr$p9$...
>
> "Brian Baird" <> wrote:
>>
>> While I think full-frame might make a larger presence in the market, I
>> feel cropped sensors will always be around because they are a lot
>> cheaper to make. We'll see 8 megapixel DSLRs going to $350 one of these
>> days, and they certainly are going to be 1.5x or 1.6x sensors.
>
> Also, (1) 8MP is as good as (ISO 100) or better than (ISO 200 and above)
> 35mm film, and 35mm film has been good enough for the vast majority of
> 20th century photography, and (2) the boost you get on your telephotos is
> appreciated by the vast majority of amateur photographers.
>
> There's really no need for full frame or more than 8MP unless one has
> pretensions at competing with the MF types in the art galleries, or at
> least producing prints of that caliber. For the vast majority of uses, 8MP
> is fine.
>
> David J. Littleboy
> Tokyo, Japan
>
>
>
As far as the resolution question, I agree, but those of us who have wide
angle lenses left over from our film days, or feel that variable aperture
WAs that only fit on 1.6x cameras are a stopgap might argue the first part
of that statement.
I have a 16-35 f2.8L, which, by all accounts, is a better lens than the
10-22 f4.5-5.6 EF-S, and, anyway, is 2-3 stops faster. I'd like it to
behave like it did on a film camera, not like a 30-50mm lens...
And, by the way, I do have pretensions of showing in galleries, and do.
The resolution of this camera is secondary, to me, at least. Spot meter and
full frame are what I've been waiting for since the D30. 12mp just helps me
sell it to my wife, who is all about HUGE prints. The wide angle thing
helps too, she gets frustrated trying to get a good shot with the 16-35 and
the 15mm fisheye.
--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"Dirty Harry" <> wrote in message
news:mmxMe.227707$5V4.34986@pd7tw3no...
>
> "Mark B." <> wrote in message
> news72dnZ2dnZ1WiD-QnZ2dnR4Hn96dnZ2dRVn-...
>> "Dirty Harry" <> wrote in message
>> news1tMe.228703$s54.65445@pd7tw2no...
>> > Hmm glad I just spent 600 bucks on this efs 17-85 IS...not. Should I
> try
>> > and dump it off asap...the value is going to go straight down the
> shitter
>> > now, no?
>> >
>> >
>>
>> What makes you say that? Unless you're absolutely certain you need full
>> frame, there's no need to dump EF-S lenses. Besides, the 5D is NOT an
>> upgrade to the 20D. The 20D and Digital Rebel XT lines will continue so
>> EF-S lenses should hold their value just fine.
>>
>> Mark
>
>
> Alright I guess I jumped the gun on this one. I was thinking I should get
> rid of the 17-85IS and get the 28-135IS and then a wide angle full frame
> lens. The efs lens really blows at 17mm.
>
>
That being said, I cancelled my order for a 20D kit that included the 17-85
back last September, preferring to stick with lenses that would be matches
for full frame cameras. But the 1.6x sensors will continue for some time to
come, according to Canon.
BTW, nothing Canon makes is stellar on the wide end, wide open, or at least
as a zoom. My 16-35 L is a little soft at 16mm f2.8.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com