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Digital workflow - need some help please

 
 
Paul Flackett
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      08-10-2005
Hi all,

I'm new here and relatively new to serious digital photography (ie SLR
shooting RAW) and would be grateful for some advice.

I've just started to use RawShooter Essentials as my RAW image
processing software. It came out top in a review of such software in the
UK magazine 'Amateur Photographer' (it is also free to download!). One
of the things the reviewer liked about it were the sharpening
facilities. However this has confused me greatly. I have always been led
to believe that sharpening should be done as the very last step of your
workflow and be specific to the size of the output (ie. any subsequent
resizing should be performed on the unsharpened master and then
re-sharpening done for that size). So under what circumstances would you
want to sharpen at the RAW stage?

Also I'm a great admirer of a guy called Steve Round, a fellow bird
photographer here in the UK. Here's a link to his website:

http://stevenround-birdphotography.com/

Steve's lo-res images are stunning in their quality, ie. he doesn't seem
to have lost much by downsizing from his 8MP RAW captures to <100k
JPEG's. I have the same camera as Steve and a similar lens but my JPEG's
don't look anywhere near as good. Any tips? My workflow goes from RAW to
TIFF to JPEG. In PhotoShop I crop the TIFF and then reduce to 50% or
25%, make any level adjustments and finally sharpen before saving as a
JPEG. Am I missing something?

Many thanks.

--
Paul Flackett

 
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John A. Stovall
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      08-10-2005
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 23:09:25 +0100, Paul Flackett
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm new here and relatively new to serious digital photography (ie SLR
>shooting RAW) and would be grateful for some advice.
>
>I've just started to use RawShooter Essentials as my RAW image
>processing software. It came out top in a review of such software in the
>UK magazine 'Amateur Photographer' (it is also free to download!). One
>of the things the reviewer liked about it were the sharpening
>facilities. However this has confused me greatly. I have always been led
>to believe that sharpening should be done as the very last step of your
>workflow and be specific to the size of the output (ie. any subsequent
>resizing should be performed on the unsharpened master and then
>re-sharpening done for that size). So under what circumstances would you
>want to sharpen at the RAW stage?
>
>Also I'm a great admirer of a guy called Steve Round, a fellow bird
>photographer here in the UK. Here's a link to his website:
>
>http://stevenround-birdphotography.com/
>
>Steve's lo-res images are stunning in their quality, ie. he doesn't seem
>to have lost much by downsizing from his 8MP RAW captures to <100k
>JPEG's. I have the same camera as Steve and a similar lens but my JPEG's
>don't look anywhere near as good. Any tips? My workflow goes from RAW to
>TIFF to JPEG. In PhotoShop I crop the TIFF and then reduce to 50% or
>25%, make any level adjustments and finally sharpen before saving as a
>JPEG. Am I missing something?


How are you downsizing when your reduce? Are you using "bicubic"?


************************************************** ******

"A nice man is a man of nasty ideas."

_Introductions to History of the Reformation_
Jonathan Swift
1667-1745

 
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CFB
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      08-11-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Paul Flackett <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> In PhotoShop I crop the TIFF and then reduce to 50% or
> 25%, make any level adjustments and finally sharpen before saving as a
> JPEG. Am I missing something?


Sharpen after you convert to jpeg. Trust me.

--

http://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/
 
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JD
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      08-11-2005
Not so according to the pros: it's proper to sharpen your RAW in RSE, AND to
sharpen the TIFF/JPG again in Photoshop as the sharpening algorithm is
different.

It remains true that it should be done last, in both cases.

Jean.

"CFB" <(E-Mail Removed)> a écrit dans le message de news:
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Paul Flackett <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> In PhotoShop I crop the TIFF and then reduce to 50% or
>> 25%, make any level adjustments and finally sharpen before saving as a
>> JPEG. Am I missing something?

>
> Sharpen after you convert to jpeg. Trust me.
>
> --
>
> http://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/



 
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Mike Warren
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      08-11-2005
JD wrote:
> Not so according to the pros: it's proper to sharpen your RAW in RSE,
> AND to sharpen the TIFF/JPG again in Photoshop as the sharpening
> algorithm is different.
>
> It remains true that it should be done last, in both cases.


That's what I do; a small amount of sharpening to compensate for
the anti-aliasing filter during RAW conversion and final sharpening
at the output stage.

-Mike


 
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CFB
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-11-2005
In article <42faec00$0$22315$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"JD" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Not so according to the pros: it's proper to sharpen your RAW in RSE, AND to
> sharpen the TIFF/JPG again in Photoshop as the sharpening algorithm is
> different.
>
> It remains true that it should be done last, in both cases.


I was talking about jpegs for web sites. I agree what you said above.

And who are the "pro's" and why are you doing what they are?

>
> Jean.
>
> "CFB" <(E-Mail Removed)> a écrit dans le message de news:
> (E-Mail Removed)...
> > In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> > Paul Flackett <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >> In PhotoShop I crop the TIFF and then reduce to 50% or
> >> 25%, make any level adjustments and finally sharpen before saving as a
> >> JPEG. Am I missing something?

> >
> > Sharpen after you convert to jpeg. Trust me.
> >
> > --
> >
> > http://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/


--

http://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/
 
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Bill Hilton
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      08-11-2005
> Paul Flackett writes ...
>
>I have always been led to believe that sharpening should
>be done as the very last step of your workflow and be
>specific to the size of the output ...


Generally true, but ...

>So under what circumstances would you
>want to sharpen at the RAW stage?


Most of the digital gurus are recommending a two pass sharpening
workflow with digital cameras (as opposed to film scans). The first
light pass is to restore the sharpness lost with the anti-aliasing
filter blur and is done when you first open the image, then after all
the editing work and resizing is done you'd sharpen to taste for the
final output size (as you already know how to do). For example, Canon
recommends amt 300% radius 0.3 and threshold 0 as a first pass USM run
for their 1D and 1Ds series bodies. The exact numbers will depend on
your camera model and to some extent the image data, which is why I
turn off the default sharpening on my RAW converters.

So basically the default sharpening in programs like RSE and Capture
One do this first step for you, though to my tastes RSE uses overly
agressive default settings and I have it disabled, preferring to just
run an action in Photoshop to clean up the AA filter blur.

Bill

 
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JD
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      08-11-2005
> And who are the "pro's" and why are you doing what they are?

I don't recall any names (never been good with names!) but I've read it in
various serious publications and on some photographers' sites.

Actually, read Bill Hilton's post in this thread, I think he's got it right.

Jean.


 
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CFB
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-11-2005
In article <42fb6007$0$22293$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"JD" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > And who are the "pro's" and why are you doing what they are?

>
> I don't recall any names (never been good with names!) but I've read it in
> various serious publications and on some photographers' sites.
>
> Actually, read Bill Hilton's post in this thread, I think he's got it right.
>
> Jean.


I think you missed the point.

When do you turn a "pro"? And what are "serious publications"? I ask
these things because it highlights your logical fallacies.

Ad Hominem
Appeal to Authority
Appeal to Popularity

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

I am not saying you are wrong. Just that you are not making your point
effectively.

And if you do what the pro's do you will be doing what the pro's do.

--

http://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/
 
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CFB
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-11-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
"Bill Hilton" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > Paul Flackett writes ...
> >
> >I have always been led to believe that sharpening should
> >be done as the very last step of your workflow and be
> >specific to the size of the output ...

>
> Generally true, but ...
>
> >So under what circumstances would you
> >want to sharpen at the RAW stage?

>
> Most of the digital gurus


Who are these digital "guru's". (Appeal to popularity)

> are recommending a two pass sharpening
> workflow with digital cameras (as opposed to film scans). The first
> light pass is to restore the sharpness lost with the anti-aliasing
> filter blur and is done when you first open the image,


Opening the images changes it? Can someone help me out here?

> then after all
> the editing work and resizing is done you'd sharpen to taste for the
> final output size (as you already know how to do). For example, Canon
> recommends amt 300% radius 0.3 and threshold 0 as a first pass USM run
> for their 1D and 1Ds series bodies. The exact numbers will depend on
> your camera model and to some extent the image data, which is why I
> turn off the default sharpening on my RAW converters.
>
> So basically the default sharpening in programs like RSE and Capture
> One do this first step for you, though to my tastes RSE uses overly
> agressive default settings and I have it disabled, preferring to just
> run an action in Photoshop to clean up the AA filter blur.
>
> Bill


--

http://home.nc.rr.com/christianbonanno/
 
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